The narrow way?

[jrlinz]

I will if you will.

 

[jrlinz]

You need to read back, Tamara. I see the interaction in this thread differently.

 

[charityagape]

No, you do not understand what I'm trying to do here.

I want to know if you are willing to enter a discussion with me about the verses and the commentary. I want to know if you can stand it if someone disagrees with your opinion long enough for us to "reason together". I am not trying to attack you or your opinion. On the contrary, I feel you have attacked me and mine.

I don't think you should stifle your opinion. I just want to know if you can back your opinion up with more than one-liners and ad hominems.

Why do you have the opinion you have? What is your reasoning?

You don't just blindly accept my opinion without question or condradiction. Why should I do that with yours?

I think we could both learn something if we could "reason together" instead of being defensive/offensive all the time. Stop viewing me as your enemy, iow.

Great idea for everyone to follow.

 

[~RENEE~]

No, you do not understand what I'm trying to do here.

I want to know if you are willing to enter a discussion with me about the verses and the commentary. I want to know if you can stand it if someone disagrees with your opinion long enough for us to "reason together". I am not trying to attack you or your opinion. On the contrary, I feel you have attacked me and mine.

I don't think you should stifle your opinion. I just want to know if you can back your opinion up with more than one-liners and ad hominems.

Why do you have the opinion you have? What is your reasoning?

You don't just blindly accept my opinion without question or condradiction. Why should I do that with yours?

I think we could both learn something if we could "reason together" instead of being defensive/offensive all the time. Stop viewing me as your enemy, iow.

I will if you will.

 

[ChowdersMom]

The received text has this one (if I looked at this correctly),..

2147 euriskw heurisko hyoo-ris'-ko

Oops. Well, that just shot my theory. Thanks anyway, Dave.

According to Vine's, the word for "narrow" is stenos, which, in context, refers to the gate to eternal life as narrow, because it runs counter to natural inclinations.

And I thought if you combine that with lambano (for find) then you would have the way to eternal life being hard for the majority of people because it goes against everything natural (flesh) and it's difficult to accept (find).

But I guess that's not quite right, either.

 

[probinson]

** Bunny trail alert **

Isaiah 1:18
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
​

When the Bible speaks of "reasoning together", it is referring to us seeing things God's way, not ours, and it is also not speaking of reasoning with each other.

** End bunny trail **

 

[Dave01]

Oops. Well, that just shot my theory. Thanks anyway, Dave.

According to Vine's, the word for "narrow" is stenos, which, in context, refers to the gate to eternal life as narrow, because it runs counter to natural inclinations.

And I thought if you combine that with lambano (for find) then you would have the way to eternal life being hard for the majority of people because it goes against everything natural (flesh) and it's difficult to accept (find).

But I guess that's not quite right, either.

Well, what you explained is what I understand currently. I also look at John 1:12,..

12 (EMTV) But as many as received Him, He gave them the authority to become children of God, to those who believe in His name;

I take the passage to describe our current situation, not one to come. So what you explained fits what I explained earlier.

 

[~RENEE~]

** Bunny trail alert **

Isaiah 1:18
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
​

When the Bible speaks of "reasoning together", it is referring to us seeing things God's way, not ours, and it is also not speaking of reasoning with each other.

** End bunny trail **

Here comes Peter Cottontail
Hoppin' down the bunny trail,
Hippity hoppin',
Easter's on its way






Bringin' ev'ry girl and boy
A basketful of Easter joy
Things to make your Easter
Bright and gay





He's got jelly beans for Tommy
Colored eggs for sister Sue
There's an orchid for your mommy
And an Easter bonnet too. Oh!

Here comes Peter Cottontail
Hoppin' down the bunny trail,
Hippity hoppin',
Happy Easter Day!

Look at him hop & listen to him say,
"Try to do the things you should"
Maybe if you're extra good
He'll roll lots of Easter eggs
your way





You'll wake up on Easter morning
And you'll know that he was there
When you find those
choc'late bunnies
That he's hiding ev'rywhere, Oh!








Here comes Peter Cottontail
Hoppin' down the bunny trail,
Hippity hoppin',
Happy Easter Day!

Opps I'm sorry I'm all better now. Just a momentary slip. He had to do the bunny trail.

 

[ChowdersMom]

So what you explained fits what I explained earlier.

You know, I didn't get that from your original post when I first read it, but now I see what you're saying.

 

[Tamara224]

You need to read back, Tamara. I see the interaction in this thread differently.

I'm trying to understand your POV, but you're not making it easy. If you could fully explain yourself that would help.

My first post in this thread was a reply to the OP (not to you) and it was my opinion of the Scripture with my reasoning and research presented. Then you responded in such a way that made me think you were suggesting that I had presented a new-fangled (and wrong) interpretation of Scripture.

If I misunderstood you, I apologize.

How do you see what has happened in this thread?

Anyway, getting back to the discussion of the verse...

I like what the Biblegateway commentary says:

Most first-century Jewish people believed they were saved by virtue of descent from Abraham (3:9). Yet Jesus regards the assumption of salvation as a deception; most of his contemporaries were unsaved (7:13-14). Those who led them showed by their lives that they were not God's true representatives (vv. 15-20); indeed, many professing servants of Jesus will themselves be banished from God's presence in the judgment (vv. 21-23), for only those who truly obeyed his teaching will stand (vv. 24-27). When one compares the great numbers of people today who cavalierly identify themselves as Christians yet never consider the claims of Christ, one shudders to realize how deadly such deception remains. May we present Christ's radical claims boldly so that more professing Christians may reckon with the reality of his lordship.

Especially the part I put in bold. It makes me think of people who call themselves Christian because their parents are Christian. As if it is genetic or something.

But, does the verse (or the commentary) really say that someone who has once received salvation - entered through the narrow gate - might later end up going down the wide path? Or, does it suggest that some who think they are saved, never really were to begin with?

 

[jrlinz]

To my understanding, it says that there is a journey TO the narrow gate (a path, and a narrow one). Not all that start down that path, will end up at that narrow gate.

 

[jrlinz]

Quote:
Jesus' image of the narrow way should have made sense to his hearers (v. 13). Greek, Roman and Jewish writers often employed the image of the two paths in life (for example, Sen. Ep. 8.3; 27.4; Diogenes Ep. 30; Deut 30:15; Ps 1:1; m. 'Abot 2:9), and those particularly concerned with the future judgment especially employed the image of the two ways, the narrow one leading to life and the broad one to destruction (as in 4 Ezra 7:3-16, 60-61; 8:1-3; Test. Ab. 11A; 8B).
Some people's assurance of salvation is a delusion (Mt 7:13-14). To enter the narrow gate of the kingdom we must knock, that is, request that God make us citizens of his kingdom (vv. 7-8). The difficulty of Jesus' way includes embracing by repentance both persecution (5:10-12) and the ethics of the kingdom taught in the Sermon on the Mount.
cut and pasted from BibleGateway.com
Highlighting is mine.

 

[Tamara224]

To my understanding, it says that there is a journey TO the narrow gate (a path, and a narrow one). Not all that start down that path, will end up at that narrow gate.

Okay, I see what you're saying. But, the gate is mentioned first in the verses. In fact, verse 13 starts with "Enter through the narrow gate." Do you think the order (gate first, path second) is important?

 

[jrlinz]

Sorry, I can't see realistically why the order of mention in this scripture would be important. You are like thinking the path is the other side of the gate?

It's like me saying "My driveway has a pothole on the left side. Be sure to swing to the right as you enter it from the main road."

Edit: The main road was mentioned last, but came before reaching the driveway, in the example.

 

[Tamara224]

Sorry, I can't see realistically why it is. You are like thinking the path is the other side of the gate?

Yeah, that's the way I view it. Since Jesus said He is the door (in another analogy - John 10) and that we enter (salvation) through Him... My thinking is that we don't start down the straight and narrow path until after we go through the door (Him). Our Christian walk begins with Jesus, not our own efforts.

 

[jrlinz]

So, you believe that , if someone rejects Once Saved, Always Saved, the bible says that is accepting works-based salvation?

 

[Tamara224]

So, you believe that , if someone rejects Once Saved, Always Saved, the bible says that is accepting works-based salvation?

No, I don't believe that. I do think some people take it that far. But my purpose in saying things is not to judge you or your beliefs or to try to undermine your theology. It's discussion about particular verses.

I actually don't really know for sure if it is 100% OSAS. Although, I have hope and trust in God that He is "able to keep [me] from stumbling" and that I "will stand, for the Lord is able to make [me] stand."

and:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
​

Since my salvation was not dependant on me, but rather on God, I trust that He is able to keep me His as well as make me His.

 

[jrlinz]

Very good. But, salvation was free. We have to do our part, and die to our flesh, now that we are His. I am pretty sure all of those instructions on behavior and warnings against sin, and who can and can not enter the Kingdom were not for those who did not claim to receive Christ.

 

[jrlinz]

By the way, I believe the path is this side of the gate. We are running the race. There will be a point when we end the race (enter the gate).

 

[Tamara224]

Very good. But, salvation was free. We have to do our part, and die to our flesh, now that we are His. I am pretty sure all of those instructions on behavior and warnings against sin, and who can and can not enter the Kingdom were not for those who did not claim to receive Christ.

Yes, but first we have to enter the gate/door and then we do the works. All the good works and 'selfless' behavior in the world amount to nothing if we don't first have Christ. That's why I believe that those who enter the wide gate and follow the broad path are those who were are not saved, rather than those who were once saved.

As the commentary I quoted stated, Jesus was talking to people who believed they were saved by virtue of their bloodlines (or by following the law). These statements of Christ's were not directed toward those already saved but to those in need of salvation.