the myth of flat earth debunked again

[contratodo]

WOW

The truth is in the Bible dear one.

 

[MForbes]

The truth is in the Bible dear one.

Your truth.....and your truth is laughable. Thanks for the pick-me-up this morning!

 

[FaithT]

You quoted a piece of what I said that includes a list of Bible verses that can be clicked on that leads to a good image of the earth as the Bible describes, with all the verses about it. I hand drew that image. At the edge is the sky, we are under the dome of the sky.

We are under a dome that is suspended in water, the water is eternally deep and eternally expands left and right.
The water is flowing from the throne of God [Rev 22:1] that is in the open in the middle of the heavenly city, that city is literally on top of the sky.
[In the end, that city comes down Rev 21:1-2]
The sky has windows in it that can be opened, during the flood those windows were opened,
allowing water to pour directly in and fill the place up.

"In the six hundred year of Noah's life.... all the fountains of the great deep were broken up,
and the windows of the sky were opened." Genesis 7:11

The land is surrounded by the sky. A flat plane under the sky, just as we experience.

Are you serious?

 

[prodromos]

During operation 'Fishbowl' during operation 'Dominique' in the 1960's nuclear bombs were shot up at the sky.
I believe they at that time were trying to penetrate the sky in earnest, but they tell us it was just 'high altitude' tests.

All the documents around operation fishbowl have been declassified. No mention of trying to 'penetrate the sky', nor would there be since they had already put a number of satellites in orbit in the years prior to the high altitude tests.

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, that is what Job 37:18 says, and John 3:13 says no man has ascended up to heaven.
Therefore the statement by Nixon to the astronauts 'the heavens have become mans realm' is clearly blaspheme.
During operation 'Fishbowl' during operation 'Dominique' in the 1960's nuclear bombs were shot up at the sky.
I believe they at that time were trying to penetrate the sky in earnest, but they tell us it was just 'high altitude' tests.
No man has ever penetrated the sky, it is hard as a molten cast metal looking glass,
with a city that has streets of transparent gold on top.

And a circle is not a ball.
The land is in a circle, not a ball.

Isaiah 40:22​

It is Him that sits above the circle of the land.....​

[Genesis 1:10 defines 'earth' for us as 'dry land']

Isaiah 22:18​

He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball​

In Isaiah 22:18 we see the word ball used.
Therefore in Isaiah 40:22 circle means circle, not ball.

The totality of scripture about creation gives a clear description.
That link shows all and every verse about it with a picture of what is clearly described.

But meteors can penetrate the clear cast metal. I'll give you that, you've got a wild imagination molten metal.

 

[Ragdoll]

Yes, that is what Job 37:18 says, and John 3:13 says no man has ascended up to heaven.
Therefore the statement by Nixon to the astronauts 'the heavens have become mans realm' is clearly blaspheme.
During operation 'Fishbowl' during operation 'Dominique' in the 1960's nuclear bombs were shot up at the sky.
I believe they at that time were trying to penetrate the sky in earnest, but they tell us it was just 'high altitude' tests.
No man has ever penetrated the sky, it is hard as a molten cast metal looking glass,
with a city that has streets of transparent gold on top.

And a circle is not a ball.
The land is in a circle, not a ball.

Isaiah 40:22​

It is Him that sits above the circle of the land.....​

Isaiah 40:22, Hebrew Lexicon Exegesis

"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (KJV).

Now for all investigative purposes its important to know what the Hebrew word is that is translated "circle." The word is Strong's H2329 חוּג chûwg. So in actuality the verse describes the chûwg of the earth. Now when we go to the lexicons we find three English words that are there to describe a chûwg.

Hebrew lexicons for H2329 חוּג chûwg

The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible,

H2328. חוּג Chuwg, kloog; a prim. root [comp.2287]; to describe a circle:--compass [1x]."

H2329. חוּג Chuwg, khoog; from 2328; a circle:--circle [1x], circuit [1x], compass [1x].".

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, H2329: "חוּג m. a circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h2329/kjv/wlc/0-1/

The big question here worthy of asking is how did the Gesenius get sphere from Chuwg? I believe the Strong's already answers this question. We know just by reading the Strong's alone that there are three words used to describe chûwg.

Examining the English Words Used to Describe a chuwg,

1. circle.

In English, a circle as we know can either be 2D flat or 3D. The word "circle" itself doesn't tell us whether its 2D or 3D? However, if indeed this circle is describing a globe that it will compass, having a circumference.

2. Compass.

This word is used to describe a circle that surrounds, environs, encompasses from all sides. Here is your latitude and longitude, where horizontal and vertical lines intersect. Job 26:10.
Also noet that "compass" is a synonym for the word "circumference" as well as "sphere."
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/compass

This is how we get an horizon which can only understood from living on a globe. See definition of "Horizon" from the 1828 Webster's Dictionary which is used today as a lexicon for learning the English of the KJV.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Horizon...

3. circuit.

While the word circuit shares much in common with a circle, it does not mean circle. In context it means that the earth moves in a circle. This accounts for both the rotation of the earth and its circuit around the sun.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Circuit...

So if we properly account for all three words that define a chuwg we come up with a Great Circle!
_______________________________________________

The English Definition of Great Circle

"A great circle is the largest possible circle that can be drawn around a sphere. All spheres have great circles."
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyc.../great-circle/...

From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary

"a circle formed on the surface of a sphere by the intersection of a plane that passes through the center of the sphere
specifically : such a circle on the surface of the earth an arc of which connecting two terrestrial points constitutes the shortest distance on the earth's surface between them"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/great%20circle...

Great Circle defined by atheist website Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle...

Circle - 1828 Webster's Dictionary

"1. In geometry, a plane figure comprehended by a single curve line, called its circumference, every part of which is equally distant from a point called the center. Of course all lines drawn from the center to the circumference or periphery, are equal to each other.

2. In popular use, the line that comprehends the figure, the plane or surface comprehended, and the whole body or solid matter of a round substance, are denominated a circle; a ring; an orb; the earth.

9. Circles of altitude or almucantars, are circles parallel to the horizon, having their common pole in the zenith, and diminishing as they approach the zenith.

10. Circles of latitude, are great circles perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic, passing through its poles and through every star and planet."
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Circle...

Definition of Orb

"ORB, noun [Latin orbis.]

1. A spherical body; as the celestial orbs.
2. In astronomy, a hollow globe or sphere.
4. A circle; a sphere defined by a line; as, he move in a larger orb
5. A circle described by any mundane sphere; an orbit.
7. The eye.
8. In tactics, the circular form of a body of troops, or a circular body of troops.

The ancient astronomers conceived the heavens as consisting of several vast azure transparent orbs or spheres inclosing one another, and including the bodies of the planets.

ORB, verb transitive To form into a circle."
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/orb...

The English definition of globe

"GLOBE, verb transitive To gather round or into a circle."
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/globe...

The English definition of sphere

"3. An orbicular body, or a circular figure representing the earth or apparent heavens."

"4. Circuit of motion; revolution; orbit; as the diurnal sphere."
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/sphere...

Strong's H2329, "circle" and "circuit"

The English definition of Round

"1. Cylindrical; circular; spherical or globular. round is applicable to a cylinder as well as to a globe or sphere. We say, the barrel of a musket is round; a ball is round; a circle is round.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/round...

The English definition of circular

"1. In the form of a circle; round; circumscribed by a circle; spherical; as, the sun appears to be circular."
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Circular...

The English definition of Circuit

"1. The act of moving or passing round; as the periodical circuit of the earth round the sun, or of the moon round the earth."
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Circuit...

So the Hebrew word chuwg means the earth is circular as a sphere is circular. The word circuit means the earth moves!

The English definition of Compass

"COMPASS, verb transitive

1. To stretch round; to extend so as to embrace the whole; hence, to inclose, encircle, grasp or seize; as, to compass with the arms."
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/compass...

Synonyms for Sphere

Circle is a synonym for sphere
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/sphere...

Synonyms for Orb

"sphere, ball, circle, round."
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/orb...

Now going back to the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon:

H2329: "חוּג m. a circle, SPHERE, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."

Word: Sphere

The Great Circle of a Sphere. That's what the verse means.

 

[Ragdoll]

Bible Commentaries:

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown: Commentary on the Whole Bible,

“It is he--rather, connected to the last verse, Have ye not known?--have ye not understood Him that sitteth...? (vs.26) [MAUDER]. Circle--applicable to the globular form of the earth, above which, and the vault of the sky around it, above it, He sits. For “upon” translate “above.” as grasshoppers--or locusts in His sight (Num.13:33), as He looks down from on high (Ps.33:13, 14; 113:4-6).”

The MacArthur Bible Commentary

"40:22 sits above the circle of the earth.
The word circle is applicable to the spherical form of the earth, above which He sits. This implies that God upholds and maintains His creation on a continuing basis (Col. 1:17; Heb.1:3). As He looks down, people seem like insects to One who has stretched and spread out the universal heavens."

Matthew Henry's Commentary,

"Now that which is here said of God is (1.) That he has command of all creatures. The heaven and the earth themselves are under his management: He sits upon the circle, or globe, of the earth, v. 22. He that has the special residence of his glory in the upper world maintains a dominion over the lower world, gives law to it, and directs all the motions of it to his own glory. He sits undisturbed upon the earth, and establishes it. He is still stretching out the heavens, his power and providence keep them still stretched out, and will do so till the comes that they shall be rolled together like a scroll. He spreads them out as easily as we draw a curtain to and fro, opening these curtains in the morning and drawing them close again at night. And the heaven is to this earth as a tent to dwell in; it is a canopy drawn over our heads, et quod tegit omnia coelum --- and it encircles all. --Ovid. See Ps.104:2 (2.) That the children of men, even the greatest and mightiest, are as nothing before him. The numerous inhabitants of this earth are in his eye as grasshoppers in ours, so little and inconsiderable, of such small value, of such little use, and so easily crushed. Proud men's lifting up themselves is but like the grasshopper's leap; in an instant they must stoop down to the earth again. If the spies thought themselves as grasshoppers before the sons of Anak (Num.13:33), what are we before the great God? Grasshoppers live but awhile, and live carelessly, not like the ant; so do the most men. (3.) That those who appear and act against him, how formidable soever they may be to their fellow-creatures, will certainly be humble and brought down by the mighty hand of God."

The Bible Knowledge Commentary (1985 Edition)

“God’s sovereign control over the world (40:21-26). 40:21-22. From His sovereign position in heaven God watches over His created universe. You (used four times in v.21) refers to people in general. The force of the first question, for example, is “Doesn’t everyone know this?” (cf. v. 28) The Lord is like a king sitting enthroned above the circle (hug, “horizon,” which is circular; cf. Job 26:10: Prov.8:27) of the earth and over His people who by comparison seem like mere grasshoppers. The heavens (the sky) are pictured as spread out like a tent for Him to live in (cf.Ps.104:2). Isaiah was not presenting a detailed idea of God’s abode. He was merely using imagery that his readers would easily understand.”

Henry Morris Study Bible,

“40:22 circle of the earth. Hebrew khug, translated “compassed” in Job 26:10 and “compass” in Proverbs 8:27. All three, in context, clearly refer to the spherical shape of the earth.
40:22 stretcheth out the heavens. This phrase is possibly a reference to the expanding universe, as envisioned by modern astronomers. There are numerous references in Scripture to the “stretching-out” or “spreading-out” of the heavens (space) when God created the universe. See, for example, Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12. Alternatively, the “heavens” referred to here may refer simply to the atmospheric heavens, spread out like a curtain or “tent to dwell in” around a circle of the earth. This atmospheric “tent”, refracting and spreading light over the hemisphere, is sharply distinct from the darkness outside.”

Here is 4th century Bishop Ambrose giving a reading from Isaiah 40:22.

"And further on: 'Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?' Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, p.231).

 

[Ragdoll]

Isaiah 40:22 -- Greek Septuagint

Greek:

"ὁ κατέχων τὸν γῦρον τῆς γῆς, καὶ οἱ ἐνοικοῦντες ἐν αὐτῇ ὡς ἀκρίδες, ὁ στήσας ὡς καμάραν τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ διατείνας ὡς σκηνὴν κατοικεῖν."

Word: γῦρον (gyron)

The common variant is γύρος (gyros). Both γύρος and γῦρον mean the same thing.

γύρος (gyros) means: round, circumference, rotation, circular movement, circumnavigate, ring, horizon.

These are the words that are used to describe how γύρος is understood in Greek, and how it it applied daily. Now in Isaiah 40:22 it is applied to the shape of the earth. Since γύρος is the daily term used for "round" and "rotation" there is no reason to assume that the verse is speaking about a flat earth that never rotates. But lets look at some of these word definitions to see how gyros applies to the earth.

Circumnavigate

"verb transitive To sail round; to pass round by water; as, to circumnavigate the globe."
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dicti.../Circumnavigate...

"transitive verb

: to go completely around especially by water
circumnavigate the earth"

"Examples of circumnavigate in a Sentence
//The ship circumnavigated the world.
//the first ship to circumnavigate the globe"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/circumnavigate...

Horizon

"noun [Gr. to bound, a limit.] The line that terminates the view, when extended on the surface of the earth; or a great circle of the sphere, dividing the world into two parts or hemispheres; the upper hemisphere which is visible, and the lower which is hid. The horizon is sensible, and rational or real. The sensible, apparent, or visible horizon is a lesser circle of the sphere, which divides the visible part of the sphere from the invisible. It is eastern or western; the eastern is that wherein the sun and stars rise; the western, that wherein they set. The rational, true, or astronomical horizon is a great circle whose plane passes through the center of the earth, and whose poles are the zenith and nadir. This horizon would bound the sight, if the eye could take in the whole hemisphere."
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Horizon...

Christos Terzis, a Greek scholar friend of mine from Greece, was able to break down the meaning of gyron. He said: "Gyron, Gyros, Γύρος, means "round" not circle. And it can well mean the shape of a sphere, not necessarily a circle."

He went further on to say:

"Concerning Gyros...it is actually the same word used to say "circumnavigate the earth". It can mean to go around in circles too. For instance, the Hebrews went GYRO of Jericho 7 times and then it fell.
Ιt's because words in Greek change according to the use they are in. For instance: O gyros Tou gyrou - of the gyros (possessive) Ton Gyron - third person O gyre - calling out to gyros like saying Hey Mark! Come over here. It's the same word. The verse says "the one who possesses the circumference of the earth". I.e. "The whole earth".
The first O in O gyros is O (omicron). The last one in O gyre is Ω omega. The last one shows exclamation. O! gyre!
Gyros is also (and this is useful for our purposes here) rotation. You can find this meaning on this page in Greek, in the first sentence.
https://el.wikipedia.org/.../%CE%93%CF%8D%CF%81%CE%BF%CF...
So when the earth rotates.....it is the same word in a noun γυρίζει/gyrizi
I think the guy on the page shot himself in the leg using gyros to make his case..."

The guy he is referring to is American atheist spokesman, Richard Carrier, who shot himself in the leg for using gyros to mean flat earth.

A quick comparison of the Greek and Hebrew meanings:

chûwg = circle

γύρος = round

chûwg = compass

γύρος = circumference

chûwg = circuit

γύρος = rotation

As you can see the meanings of these two words convey the same definition using different English words that conveythe same thing. From the Greek work gyro we get the compound word gyroscope which is an instrument used to prove the earth is round.
_______________________________________________

Common Sense Exegesis of Chûwg in Context

Chûwg is not the only word in the Old Testament that means globe. The word H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl is used more times that chuwg and it means "the habitable globe." Here is proof that tebel means globe.

Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl
https://www.facebook.com/Answeri.../posts/824042704717626...

Does the Bible teach both globe and flat earth? I don't think so. Tebel means "the habitable globe" while chuwg describes a globe.

In Proverbs chapter eight there are three globe earth verses.

Proverbs 8:26 - têbêl
Proverbs 8:27 - chûwg
Proverbs 8:31 - têbêl

Do flat earthers actually believe that king Solomon is gonna say globe earth in v.26 just to say flat earth in v.27, only to turn around and say globe earth again in v.31? Seriously, nobody is that stupid! We're talking king Solomon here not some delusional street bum all strung out on drugs! Both chûwg and têbêl mean globe earth. Solomon did not contradict when writing those proverbs.

Here is more contextual evidence that supports the globe earth meaning of chuwg supported by tebel. A good example of this is found in the Tyndale Bibles. For this example I will used the 1537 Matthew's Bible.

Isaiah 40:22 -- חוּג chûwg

"That he sytteth vpon the circle of the worlde, and that al the inhabytours of the worlde are in comparison of him, but as greshoppers: That he spredeth out the heauens as a coueryng, that he stretcheth them out, as a tent to dwell in"

Jeremiah 51:15 -- תֵּבֵל têbêl

"Yea euen the Lorde of hostes, that wyth his power made the earthe, with hys wysedome prepared the rounde worlde, and with his discrecyon spred oute the heauens."

The last of the Tyndale Bibles is the 1568 Bishop's Bible. Here the English is more developed and nothing has changed in these two verses.

Isaiah 40:22 -- חוּג chûwg

"It is he that sitteth vpon the circle of the world, whose inhabiters are in comparison of him but as grashoppers: he spreadeth out the heauens as a couering, he stretcheth them out as a tent to dwell in"

Jeremiah 51:15 -- תֵּבֵל têbêl

"Yea euen the Lorde of hoastes that with his power made the earth, with his wisdome prepared the round world, and with his discretion spread out the heauens."

As you can see both words share the same context in these two verses. While têbêl can be applied to a local context, it is more often used to capture a globular meaning based on the Hebrew understanding of the world which is understood by the word of God.

The flat earth response will be to show you that têbêl means world. But world is an English word that, when applied to the whole earth and its inhabitants--the habitable globe.

Another example:

Isaiah 18:3 - têbêl
Isaiah 27:6 - têbêl
Isaiah 24:4 - têbêl
Isaiah 34:1 - têbêl
Isaiah 40:22 - chûwg

The Prophet Isaiah didn't contradict himself either. Both words are used to describe a globe.
________________________________________________

Conclusion

The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 40:22 is chûwg. The word translated "circle" is meant to describe the Great Circle of a Sphere as understood in geometry.

Isaiah was not preaching culture. He wrote down the Word of God. And God, our Creator, knows the shape of the earth He created! I knew what the "circle" in Isaiah 40:22 meant the first time I read it way back when I was 14 years old! But millennials today are so brainwashed by militant atheism they do not understand any of this and they read ancient texts as though they were reading a modern science textbook in English. If they would give respect to the texts and learn how to be fair-minded and not so full of criticism, they might just learn how to appreciate the awesome power of God through prophecy!

 

[Ragdoll]

Isaiah 22:18​

He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball​

In Isaiah 22:18 we see the word ball used.
Therefore in Isaiah 40:22 circle means circle, not ball.

The totality of scripture about creation gives a clear description.
That link shows all and every verse about it with a picture of what is clearly described.

Isaiah Knew The Difference: Answering The כַּדּוּר (duwr) Objection

Contents:
INTRODUCTION
PROCESS OF ELIMINATION
Isaiah Knew The Difference.
Conclusion
__________________________________________________

INTRODUCTION

Atheists and flat earthers alike claim that the Hebrew word חוּג (chuwg) means flat earth. They contend that if Isaiah wanted to express a globe he would have used כַּדּוּר (duwr). So in this war of words we need to examine both the meaning of each word and the context they are applied to in Scripture. Hebrew is the context driven language; and like other languages, Hebrew words can sometimes carry more than one application. Now in English the word "circle" has more than one application. It can be applied to either a 2D circle or, the Great Circle of a Sphere. So lets find out what Isaiah meant by his application of חוּג in Isaiah 40:22.
_________________________________________________

PROCESS OF ELIMINATION

Process of Elimination: Which words and verses do not fit the context of the earth or it's shape?

Flat earthers still make the claim that Isaiah would have used כַּדּוּר if he intended to express a globe. But that word is used only 3x in the Bible. Here are all 3 verses where כַּדּוּר is applied.

"He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house" (Strong's H1754 דּוּר dûwr, Isaiah 22:18 -- KJV).

"And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee (Strong's H1754 דּוּר dûwr, Isaiah 29:3 -- KJV).

"Take the choice of the flock, and burn also the bones under it, and make it boil well, and let them seethe the bones of it therein" (Strong's H1754 דּוּר dûwr, Ezekiel 24:5 -- KJV).

Out of these three verses the only one that comes remotely close to anything that would fit a globe is Isaiah 22:18. And yet if we were to interject the word globe into the verse it still isn't convincing:

"He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a [globe] into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house."

Perhaps the 1537 Matthew's Bible will help make more sense of this:

"He shall carye the into a farre countre, lyke a ball with hys handes. There shalt thou dye, there shal the pompe of thy charettes haue an ende: thou villeyne of the house of the Lorde."

"lyke a ball with hys handes."
"lyke a [globe] with hys handes. "

Is this what flat earthers are trying to say, that duwr means globe? Would that not add another globe earth verse to the list of globe earth verses? I wish! Though I fail to see any mention of the whole world in this verse.

The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, H1754 דּוּר dûwr

" a circle, ball or pile:—ball, turn, round about."
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h1754/wlc/wlc/0-1/

"He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house" (Strong's H1754 דּוּר dûwr, Isaiah 22:18 -- KJV).

"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (Strong's H2329: חוּג chûwg, Isaiah 40:22 -- KJV).

In 22:18 we see how God is ready to roll them up like a ball and throw them into a different country. But no reference to the earth here or its shape. Unless, God is gonna roll them up like a globe and toss the globe into another country. But that makes no sense. If I could see globe in the context of this verse I would have included it on my list of globe earth verses already. It seems clear to my mind that the verse is referring to a toy ball, something used for sports. Perhaps a look into the Hebrew text will change the meaning.

Hebrew Masoretic Text: צנוף יצנפך צנפה כדור אל ארץ רחבת ידים שׁמה תמות ושׁמה מרכבות כבודך קלון בית אדניך

Word: כדור • (kadúr) m (plural indefinite כַּדּוּרִים‎, singular construct כַּדּוּר־)

1. A ball or orb or other spherical object.
‏הילדים העבירו ביניהם את הכדור.‎‎ ― hay'ladím he'evíru beinéhem et hakadúr. ― The children passed the ball to one another.
2. (geometry) A ball: a three-dimensional solid enclosed by a sphere.
3. (geometry, loosely) A sphere: a three-dimensional surface consisting of points equidistant from a center.
4. (mathematics) A ball: the subset of a metric space that consists of all points within a certain distance from a given point.
5. A bullet, a round.
6. A pill: medicine to be swallowed.

Usage notes: Historically, this noun was sometimes masculine, sometimes feminine. In Modern Hebrew it is exclusively masculine."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%9B%D7%93%D7%95%D7%A8...

Reverso Context: כדור -- "bullet, ball, shot, pill, globe, sphere, round, cap, scoop, orb, tablet"
https://context.reverso.net/.../%D7%9B%D7%93%D7%95%D7%A8...

So כדור actually does have a broad meaning and it can be applied to mean a globe/sphere/orb.

Lets return to the Strong's definition.

"a circle, ball or pile:—ball, turn, round about."

Did atheists and flat earthers miss "circle" here? Yet since כדור can be used to mean globe, then doesn't that mean the "circle" in the definition also means "globe"? Sure it does! Even the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon says "as in a circle." Does this mean atheists will admit circle can also mean globe?

In the Latin Vulgate we see words like gyrum (aka., gyrus), gyro, orbis, orbis terrarum, orbis terrae, orbi, and so on that mean globe/sphere. What does Isaiah 22:18 say in the Vulgate?

Latin Vulgate: "Coronas coronabit te tribulatione; quasi pilam mittet te in terram latam et spatiosam; ibi morieris, et ibi erit currus gloriae tuae, ignominia domus domini tui."

No globe/sphere mentioned here.

Moving on..

The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible,

H2329. חוּג Chuwg, khoog; from 2328; a circle:--circle [1x], circuit [1x], compass [1x].".

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon,

H2329: "חוּג m. a circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."

Its clear both words can be applied to both "circle" and "sphere."

So why did Isaiah chose חוּג over כדור ? If כדור means globe then why not just use that word?

Its like the difference between "there, their, they're" the classic grammar error. Except in this case its circle or circle, or globe or globe? This is confusing in English...but not in Hebrew. Duwr cannot be applied in Isaiah 40:22 because it doesn't grammatically fit the context. Isaiah's selection of chuwg actually describes all features of a globe. It describes the Great Circle of the earth, its circumference, and how it moves in a circle (circuit). The word is applied in a scientific way that describes the circle of the earth. Duwr can mean globe but it does not define it.

Finally, here is the Hebrew word commonly used to mean globe in today's Hebrew:

Word: גלובוס - globus
https://context.reverso.net/trans.../english-hebrew/globe...

It is uncertain when this word developed as its not mentioned in the Bible once. It may be a word that developed later but this is uncertain. There are many Hebrew words used to mean a globe.

Though there is another word that means "the habitable globe" contextually applied to verses that mention the globe along with its inhabitants.

tebel תבל
https://context.reverso.net/.../heb.../%D7%AA%D7%91%D7%9C...

 

[Ragdoll]

The word תֵּבֵל is used by Isaiah 9x. Continuing with the process of elimination we now have three words used by Isaiah to examine:

Round 1 - Context

H1754 דּוּר dûwr

"He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house" (Strong's H1754 דּוּר dûwr, Isaiah 22:18 -- KJV).

H2329 חוּג chûwg

"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (Strong's H2329 חוּג chûwg, Isaiah 40:22 -- KJV).

H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

"Yea euen the Lorde of hoastes that with his power made the earth, with his wisdome prepared the round world, and with his discretion spread out the heauens" (Strong's H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl Jeremiah 51:15 -- 1568 Bishop's Bible).

This round is turning into a brawl real fast. Tebel and Chuwg are ganging up on Duwr. Both Tebel and Chuwg are sharing the exact same context! Duwr's context is lacking any application of a globular meaning. Maybe the 1876 Julia Smith Bible will jump in to support Duwr. Its a literal translation and she uses globe a lot.

H1754 דּוּר dûwr

"Rolling, he will roll thee a roll as a ball into a land broad of hands: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory the dishonor of thy lord's house" (Isaiah 22:18 - 1876 Julia Smith Bible).

H2329 חוּג chûwg

"He sitting upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants as locusts; he stretching out the heavens as fine cloth, and he will extend them as a tent to dwell in" (Isaiah 40:22 - 1876 Julia Smith Bible).

H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

"He made the earth by his power, he prepared the habitable globe by his wisdom, and by his understanding he stretched forth the heavens" (Jeremiah 51:15 - 1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Woe! That was a bad idea! Julia Smith's literal translation didn't help out Duwr at all. But Tebel has got a boost in this fight! Both Tebel and Chuwg have maintained the same context -- God's creation of earth, supplying the shape. Duwr has not been able to fit the context of God's creation of earth or its shape. But wait, atheists are saying that Chuwg and Tebel don't share the same meaning. Could there be a contradiction by Isaiah?

Round 2 - Common Denominators

In Proverbs chapter eight there are three globe earth verses:

Proverbs 8:26 - têbêl

Proverbs 8:27 - chûwg

Proverbs 8:31 - têbêl

Do flat earthers actually believe that king Solomon is gonna say globe earth in v.26 just to say flat earth in v.27, only to turn around and say globe earth again in v.31? Seriously, nobody is that stupid! King Solomon is not contradicting. Both chûwg and têbêl mean globe earth. Except têbêl means the globe along with its inhabitants whereas chûwg means the Great Circle of a sphere. Solomon did not contradict when writing those proverbs.

But did Isaiah know about tebel? Sure he did.

Isaiah 18:3 - têbêl

Isaiah 24:4 - têbêl

Isaiah 27:6 - têbêl

Isaiah 34:1 - têbêl

Isaiah 40:22 - chûwg

The Prophet Isaiah didn't contradict himself either. Both words are used to describe a globe.

Isaiah 18:3 "Yea, al ye that syt in the compasse of the worlde, and dwell vpon the earthe, when the token shalbe geuen vpon the mountaynes, then loke vp: & when the horne bloweth, then herken to" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

Isaiah 24:4 "The earth mourning, fell away: the habitable globe languishing, fell away: the heights of the people of the land languished" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Isaiah 27:6 "Those coming of Jacob shall he cause to take root: Israel shall blossom and be fruitful, and they filled the face of the habitable globe with produce" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Isaiah 34:1 "Come ye Heythen and heare, take hede ye people. Herken thou erth & all that is therin: thou round compasse and all that groweth there vpon" (1539 Great Bible).

Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (KJV).

Isaiah 18:3 - "the compasse of the worlde" (circumference)
Isaiah 24:4 - "the habitable globe"
Isaiah 27:6 - "the habitable globe"
Isaiah 34:1 - "thou round compasse"
Isaiah 40:22 - "circle of the earth"

From what I get out of reading these Isaiah verses is that the earth is round, circular, globular, habitable. Sounds like perfectly accurate science to me.

But atheists claim the Greek Septuagint proves Isaiah 40:22 means flat earth! This could be a serious game changer. With Duwr not working out contextually, atheists must have the Greek if they are to ever win their case.

Isaiah 40:22,

Greek: "ὁ κατέχων τὸν γῦρον τῆς γῆς, καὶ οἱ ἐνοικοῦντες ἐν αὐτῇ ὡς ἀκρίδες, ὁ στήσας ὡς καμάραν τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ διατείνας ὡς σκηνὴν κατοικεῖν."

This verse literally translates as,

"the one who possesses the circumference of the earth". I.e. "The whole earth".

The word γῦρον (gyron) is more commonly used as γύρος (gyros). Both words mean the same thing. γύρος means "round, circumference, rotation." You can see the meaning of this word in the first sentence of Greek Wiki
https://el.wikipedia.org/.../%CE%93%CF%8D%CF%81%CE%BF%CF...

It means round & rotating (spinning globe).

Ironically from the Greek word gyro came the compound word gyroscope, which is an instrument used to prove the earth is round!

Isaiah selected chuwg because that was the word that best described a rotating circle with a circumference (Great Circle).
_________________________________________________

Isaiah Knew The Difference.

Isaiah wasn't dumb. He didn't write globe earth in Isaiah 18:3; 34:1 and then write in flat earth in Isaiah 40:22. Isaiah knew the difference and he knew words that would have been much easier to describe a flat earth...as there are good word choices that mean flat. Isaiah could have used the word tachath -- “that the wall fell down flat “ (Joshua 6:20).

The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible,

H8478: "תַּחַת tachath, takh'-ath; from the same as H8430; the bottom (as depressed); only adverbially, below (often with prepositional prefix underneath), in lieu of, etc.:—as, beneath, × flat, in(-stead), (same) place (where...is), room, for...sake, stead of, under, × unto, × when...was mine, whereas, (where-) fore, with."

Flat earthers have many times described the Biblical earth as a flat plate. This description has been thrown at me many times and there is a perfect word for this Isaiah could have used. The word is H4227 מַחֲבַת machăbath

The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible,

H4227. מַחֲבַת machăbath, makh-ab-ath'; from the same as 2281; a pan for baking in:--pan [5x]. See TWOT -- 600b; BDB -- 292b, 561d”

TWOT 600b: “flat plate, pan, or griddle (e.g. Lev. 2:5; 6:14; Ezk 4:3)”.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h4227/kjv/wlc/0-1/

This word fits the FE model perfectly. Thus Isaiah could have written, "the plate of the earth" or "the pan of the earth"...."the griddle of the earth," --- "the flat earth" (in the case of tachath).

But Isaiah knew the difference between flat and the circular fullness of a globe.
_________________________________________________

Conclusion

While duwr proved to be durable where a globular meaning is concerned, it lacked contextual evidence in Scripture. Now flat earthers might say that is their entire point, that duwr was not selected for Isaiah 40:22 or any globular application in the Bible. However, if that were the case then why is it that tebel, that also means globe, is used 4 times in Isaiah alone if there are no globe earth verses in the Bible? Isaiah chose a word that best describe the earth as circular, as the earth is circular. Chuwg also means circuit (to move in a circle). Atheists need to understand that they have no argument. Both chuwg and duwr carry the circular meaning but somehow atheists say one circle is more round than the other and no circle can ever mean globe

I really don't think atheists are giving this any thought. They only want to attack the Bible without understanding it. That's bigotry by definition and it has no place in education.

 

[Aussie Pete]

You quoted a piece of what I said that includes a list of Bible verses that can be clicked on that leads to a good image of the earth as the Bible describes, with all the verses about it. I hand drew that image. At the edge is the sky, we are under the dome of the sky.

We are under a dome that is suspended in water, the water is eternally deep and eternally expands left and right.
The water is flowing from the throne of God [Rev 22:1] that is in the open in the middle of the heavenly city, that city is literally on top of the sky.
[In the end, that city comes down Rev 21:1-2]
The sky has windows in it that can be opened, during the flood those windows were opened,
allowing water to pour directly in and fill the place up.

"In the six hundred year of Noah's life.... all the fountains of the great deep were broken up,
and the windows of the sky were opened." Genesis 7:11

The land is surrounded by the sky. A flat plane under the sky, just as we experience.

Except we do not. The earth is a globe and that affects millions of people every moment of every day. "Windows"? God promised Israel that He would pour out blessing from the window of heaven. (Malachi 3:10). It is not a literal window as we have in our homes. Have you seen vast amounts of money pouring out of the sky? Christians give to the Lord regularly. No one I know says that their needs are met by holes in the sky pouring down money.

 

[Ragdoll]

Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

Lexicons:
The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible
Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.
New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4
Reverso Context
Breakdown of Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl
______________________________________________

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible.

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].

The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."
___________________________________________

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

H8398 - tēḇēl - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)
___________________________________________

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).

Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).

Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).

In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".
___________________________________________

New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4:

"9315. têbêl תֵּבֵל Nom. fem., world (#9315).

OT Found 36x exclusively in poetic texts, the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity. It sometimes occurs in parallelism with 'eres (Jer.10:12; Lam.4:12). Twice it is used together with 'eres, either to express "the whole earth" (Job 37:12), or perhaps in the sense of the inhabited earth (Prov.8:31). It is used frequently in contexts that associate it with Yahweh's creative act and that, as a result, express the stability or durability of the earth (1 Sam.2:8; Ps.89:11 [12]; 93:1; 96:10). It is used when the whole population of the world is referred to (Ps.24:1; 33:8; 98:7; Isa. 18:3; 26:9; Nah.1:5). Isaiah uses têbêl more than any other prophet, mostly in the context of universal judgment (Isaiah 13:11; 24:4; 34:1; cf. Ps.96:13; 98:9).

Land, earth: --> damd (ground, piece of land, soil, realm of the earth, #141); --> 'eres (earth, land, #824); --> têbêl (world, #9315)."

Reverso Context: "world, globe, earth"
תֵּבֵל - Translation into English - examples Hebrew | Reverso Context
___________________________________________

Breakdown of Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

Strong's: "; by extension, the globe;"

Gesenius': ",the habitable globe, οἰκουμένη"

TWOT: "First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth"

AND

"In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed."

New International: "the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity."

Reverso Context: "globe"

 

[Aussie Pete]

Yes, that is what Job 37:18 says, and John 3:13 says no man has ascended up to heaven.
Therefore the statement by Nixon to the astronauts 'the heavens have become mans realm' is clearly blaspheme.
During operation 'Fishbowl' during operation 'Dominique' in the 1960's nuclear bombs were shot up at the sky.
I believe they at that time were trying to penetrate the sky in earnest, but they tell us it was just 'high altitude' tests.
No man has ever penetrated the sky, it is hard as a molten cast metal looking glass,
with a city that has streets of transparent gold on top.

And a circle is not a ball.
The land is in a circle, not a ball.

Isaiah 40:22​

It is Him that sits above the circle of the land.....​

[Genesis 1:10 defines 'earth' for us as 'dry land']

Isaiah 22:18​

He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball​

In Isaiah 22:18 we see the word ball used.
Therefore in Isaiah 40:22 circle means circle, not ball.

The totality of scripture about creation gives a clear description.
That link shows all and every verse about it with a picture of what is clearly described.

According to FE, the earth is flat and covered with a dome. If that is so, there is a point where the dome meets the surface of the earth. That point must be easy to discover. Just keep moving until you bump into it. Since no one has done this, it is obvious that the dome does not exist. The problem is not with the Bible, it is the twisted interpretations by FE people. Molten metal is not hard, in case you are totally ignorant of basics of solids, liquids and gases. Molten metal glass? No such thing.

FE is a delusion. FE adherents are not only deluded but unteachable. And then you have the hide to slander those who disagree with you.

 

[Aussie Pete]

The truth is in the Bible dear one.

When it comes to the shape of the earth, you reject truth and believe a delusion.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Are you serious?

Tragically, he/she is.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Yes, that is what Job 37:18 says, and John 3:13 says no man has ascended up to heaven.
Therefore the statement by Nixon to the astronauts 'the heavens have become mans realm' is clearly blaspheme.
During operation 'Fishbowl' during operation 'Dominique' in the 1960's nuclear bombs were shot up at the sky.
I believe they at that time were trying to penetrate the sky in earnest, but they tell us it was just 'high altitude' tests.
No man has ever penetrated the sky, it is hard as a molten cast metal looking glass,
with a city that has streets of transparent gold on top.

And a circle is not a ball.
The land is in a circle, not a ball.

Isaiah 40:22​

It is Him that sits above the circle of the land.....​

[Genesis 1:10 defines 'earth' for us as 'dry land']

Isaiah 22:18​

He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball​

In Isaiah 22:18 we see the word ball used.
Therefore in Isaiah 40:22 circle means circle, not ball.

The totality of scripture about creation gives a clear description.
That link shows all and every verse about it with a picture of what is clearly described.

There is more than one heaven. And sure, no one in Job's time had been into space. How many years ago since Job's time? It's the oldest book in the Bible. No one had a computer or smartphone in that era either. Former President Nixon was a lot of things, but to call him a blasphemer because you are ignorant of reality is unwarranted and slanderous.

 

[contratodo]

And sure, no one in Job's time had been into space. How many years ago since Job's time? It's the oldest book in the Bible. No one had a computer or smartphone in that era either.

And therefore with our technology and knowledge, we know more than the inspired authors of the Bible, and can interpret what was said to better fit with what we know as truth. Yes? Or is it that what the Bible says is the solid rock anchor of truth?

 

[contratodo]

According to FE, the earth is flat and covered with a dome. If that is so, there is a point where the dome meets the surface of the earth. That point must be easy to discover. Just keep moving until you bump into it. Since no one has done this, it is obvious that the dome does not exist.

Yes dear one, that point is what is called Antarctica, it is actually an ice wall around the edge of the dome.
There is water flowing outside down and around the whole dome, from the throne of God.
Where the flow of water meets the bottom of the dome, similar to the bottom of a waterfall, it is cold.
The thickness of the ice gives us some understanding of the vast thickness of the dome.

Yes there are layers to it, and one layer is cloaked in darkness as the Bible says; Isaiah 50:3.
But there are not multiple dimensions, Paul was speaking of being caught up very high.
At the highest, on top of the sky, there is a city, with streets of transparent gold, Gods throne out in the open,
from which much water flows. Water was the first physical thing created: Proverbs 8:23-24,
wisdom, water, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the water,
and God said, let there be light and there was light.

Flight 901 the Mt. Erebus disaster, some say it actually crashed into the dome not a mountain.
And one can still find video of 'operation fishbowl' it clearly looks like explosions on a dome.
The rolling sound of thunder is because it echos off the dome.
You can try it yourself by popping a balloon under a domed canopy.

 

[contratodo]

It is not a literal window as we have in our homes. Have you seen vast amounts of money pouring out of the sky?

And I will rebuke the devourer for your sake, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground
Malachi 3:11

The windows of the sky being opened is a reference to plentiful rain and therefore a fruitful harvest.

 

[contratodo]

1. A ball or orb or other spherical object.

That is the definition indeed.
Isaiah knew the difference between a circle and a spherical 3D object.

The Author of the Bible knew the lies that the enemy would tell, and that the enemy would alter His word as much as possible,
nevertheless the Word is so divinely and cleverly crafted that it still clearly exposes the lies of the enemy.