The Music Thread

[Byfaithalone1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't your question regarding the music that God endorses? All of the responses I'm seeing are based on what the person endorses instead.

I think you're right. However, I think I'm sensing hints from K4C and Joe that music styles and beats relate to "sin." If so, then they may be telling us that God does in fact endorse certain styles of music. Hopefully, they will confirm or deny. Perhaps they'll even be willing to share with us the attributes of the musical styles that God does not endorse.

BFA

 

[VictorC]

I think I'm sensing hints from K4C and Joe that music styles and beats relate to "sin."

Even that vein of thought addresses the issue only as how the music allegedly causes a person to return to a former habit. I dont' think music is going to incite a drug war in the heavenlies, but you know, that's just my opinion.

Even David selected music based on his own instrument of choice.
Psalms 144:9 I will sing a new song to You, O God; On a harp of ten strings I will sing praises to You...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Even David selected music based on his own instrument of choice.
Psalms 144:9 I will sing a new song to You, O God; On a harp of ten strings I will sing praises to You...

Yup. David (and others) weren't afraid of beats.

1. 2 Samuel 6:5
   Meanwhile, David and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the LORD with all kinds of instruments made of fir wood, and with lyres, harps, tambourines, castanets and cymbals.
2. 1 Chronicles 13:8
   David and all Israel were celebrating before God with all their might, even with songs and with lyres, harps, tambourines, cymbals and with trumpets.
3. 1 Chronicles 15:16
   Then David spoke to the chiefs of the Levites to appoint their relatives the singers, with instruments of music, harps, lyres, loud-sounding cymbals, to raise sounds of joy.
   
4. 1 Chronicles 15:28
   Thus all Israel brought up the ark of the covenant of the LORD with shouting, and with sound of the horn, with trumpets, with loud-sounding cymbals, with harps and lyres.
5. 1 Chronicles 16:5
   Asaph the chief, and second to him Zechariah, then Jeiel, Shemiramoth, Jehiel, Mattithiah, Eliab, Benaiah, Obed-edom and Jeiel, with musical instruments, harps, lyres; also Asaph played loud-sounding cymbals,
6. 1 Chronicles 16:42
   And with them were Heman and Jeduthun with trumpets and cymbals for those who should sound aloud, and with instruments for the songs of God, and the sons of Jeduthun for the gate.
7. 2 Chronicles 5:12
   and all the Levitical singers, Asaph, Heman, Jeduthun, and their sons and kinsmen, clothed in fine linen, with cymbals, harps and lyres, standing east of the altar, and with them one hundred and twenty priests blowing trumpets
8. 2 Chronicles 5:13
   in unison when the trumpeters and the singers were to make themselves heard with one voice to praise and to glorify the LORD, and when they lifted up their voice accompanied by trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and when they praised the LORD saying, " He indeed is good for His lovingkindness is everlasting," then the house, the house of the LORD, was filled with a cloud,
9. Ezra 3:10
   Now when the builders had laid the foundation of the temple of the LORD, the priests stood in their apparel with trumpets, and the Levites, the sons of Asaph, with cymbals, to praise the LORD according to the directions of King David of Israel.
10. Psalm 150:5
    Praise Him with loud cymbals;Praise Him with resounding cymbals.
    Psalm 150:4-6 (in Context) Psalm 150 (Whole Chapter)

BFA

 

[VictorC]

one hundred and twenty priests blowing trumpets

I might put a stop right about here...

 

[Joe67]

I think you're right. However, I think I'm sensing hints from K4C and Joe that music styles and beats relate to "sin." If so, then they may be telling us that God does in fact endorse certain styles of music. Hopefully, they will confirm or deny. Perhaps they'll even be willing to share with us the attributes of the musical styles that God does not endorse.

BFA

BFA,

I believe this was the only restraint that K4c and I were presenting in the question of music. What is happening to my weak brothers and sisters thoughts and feelings? Are old, self-indulgent feelings being revived in them as the music is brought forth?

Joe

 

[Sophia7]

I do believe some beats or styles of music can temp us to return to old habbits such as drugs.

I'm a retired police detective (3 years now). During my time I had many opportunities to work narcotic cases that involved rave clubs. Rave clubs are places where people go to use the drug ecstasy. They play techno music there because it inhances the drug effect.

What effect do you think such music would have on someone who had never used illegal drugs? I don't think that techno music would tempt me to do anything.

As far as David and King Saul. David would play the harp to releave Saul of his evil spirit.

1 Samuel 16:23 And whenever the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, David took the harp and played it with his hand; so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

I see no indication that "the beat of music alone," as you put it earlier, affected Saul. It seems more likely from the biblical account that it was the Lord's presence with David that caused the evil spirit to depart from Saul while David played his harp, rather than the beat, or lack of a beat, in the music itself:

1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.
15 Saul's servants then said to him, "Behold now, an evil spirit from God is terrorizing you.
16 "Let our lord now command your servants who are before you. Let them seek a man who is a skillful player on the harp; and it shall come about when the evil spirit from God is on you, that he shall play the harp with his hand, and you will be well."
17 So Saul said to his servants, "Provide for me now a man who can play well and bring him to me."
18 Then one of the young men said, "Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite who is a skillful musician, a mighty man of valor, a warrior, one prudent in speech, and a handsome man; and the LORD is with him."

19 So Saul sent messengers to Jesse and said, "Send me your son David who is with the flock."
20 Jesse took a donkey loaded with bread and a jug of wine and a young goat, and sent them to Saul by David his son.
21 Then David came to Saul and attended him; and Saul loved him greatly, and he became his armor bearer.
22 Saul sent to Jesse, saying, "Let David now stand before me, for he has found favor in my sight."
23 So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.
___________________________________________________________

1 Sam. 17:10 Now it came about on the next day that an evil spirit from God came mightily upon Saul, and he raved in the midst of the house, while David was playing the harp with his hand, as usual; and a spear was in Saul's hand.
11 Saul hurled the spear for he thought, "I will pin David to the wall." But David escaped from his presence twice.
12 Now Saul was afraid of David, for the LORD was with him but had departed from Saul.
13 Therefore Saul removed him from his presence and appointed him as his commander of a thousand; and he went out and came in before the people.
14 David was prospering in all his ways for the LORD was with him.
15 When Saul saw that he was prospering greatly, he dreaded him.
16 But all Israel and Judah loved David, and he went out and came in before them.
___________________________________________________________

1 Sam. 19:9 Now there was an evil spirit from the LORD on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was playing the harp with his hand.
10 Saul tried to pin David to the wall with the spear, but he slipped away out of Saul's presence, so that he stuck the spear into the wall. And David fled and escaped that night.
​

Do you think that during the times that David's music failed to calm Saul, it was because David was playing the wrong type of music? I think that it had more to do with Saul's increasing jealousy because the Lord was with David but had withdrawn from Saul.

 

[Kira Light]

I listen to death metal and trance, but I also carry the mark of the beast so no surprise.

 

[k4c]

I guess all denominations are alike, including SDA's. They see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe.

In my past job as a police detective I have done much reseach in the area of satanic crimes and the influence of music in criminal behavior and suicides.

Music has a very powerful influence on people in regards to sex, drugs, suicide, violence and rebellion whether we believe it or not. We can even make fun of people who teach and believe this but it won't nullify the fact that it does.

Don't let your emotions guide you, do your reseach.

Here are just a few from the hundreds of quotes from the musicians themselves.

"Rock music is sex. The big beat matches the body's rhythms" (Frank Zappa of the Mothers of Invention, Life, June 28, 1968).

"That's what rock is all about--sex with a 100 megaton bomb, the beat!" (Gene Simmons of the rock group Kiss, interview, Entertainment Tonight, ABC, Dec. 10, 1987).

"Rock 'n' roll is 99% sex" (John Oates of the rock duo Hall & Oates, Circus, Jan. 31, 1976).

"Rock 'n' roll is pagan and primitive, and very jungle, and that's how it should be!" (Malcolm McLaren, punk rock manager, Rock, August 1983).

"The great strength of rock 'n' roll lies in its beat ... it is a music which is basically sexual, un-Puritan ... and a threat to established patterns and values" (Irwin Silber, Marxist, Sing Out, May 1965).

"I'm the devil's advocate. We have our own worshippers who are called 'groupies.' Girls will give their bodies to musicians as you would give a sacrifice to a god." (Frank Zappa)

"Hopefully, I'll be remembered as the person who brought an end to Christianity." (Marilyn Manson)

"Rock concerts are the churches of today." (Guitarist Craig Chaquico of the rock group 'Jefferson Starship.')

"Get them while they're young and bend their minds." (Spencer Dryden of the rock group 'Jefferson Starship.')

 

[Joe67]

What effect do you think such music would have on someone who had never used illegal drugs? I don't think that techno music would tempt me to do anything.
___________________________________________________________

1 Sam. 19:9 Now there was an evil spirit from the LORD on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was playing the harp with his hand.
10 Saul tried to pin David to the wall with the spear, but he slipped away out of Saul's presence, so that he stuck the spear into the wall. And David fled and escaped that night.
​

Do you think that during the times that David's music failed to calm Saul, it was because David was playing the wrong type of music? I think that it had more to do with Saul's increasing jealousy because the Lord was with David but had withdrawn from Saul.

Sophia,

Please reconsider your first position in your post concerning being tempted.

Our natural heart, which springs into our mind from our members, is self-indulgent beyond understanding. I believe that the historic Baptist teaching on this is much clearer than the historic or present SdA teaching and practice.

K4c is presenting some very practical insight. For those of us who were involved in the music world for self-indulgent purposes, it is very practical. In saying this, I am not advocating for all of k4c's theology. At this time, to me every day is alike and all food's are clean and received with prayer and thanksgiving.

Spiritual freedom has a practical consideration for the sake of the flesh, of which all of us still possess. Modern and post-modern theology of the free gift of justification is in neglect and/or denial of this facet of Christ and the need to be cleansed from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit. Thereby we are led, like Eve at the tree, to take our liberty to an self-serving end.

Even King David went through this experience; twice. He set up the tent at Jerusalem and began worshiping through the power of music, of which he was the teacher and leader. Then came Bathsheba and Uriah. Then next came the desire to number Israel.

It never entered his thoughts as to how greatly he would be tempted; through association with the king of Tyre.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What is happening to my weak brothers and sisters thoughts and feelings?

Who are these weak brothers and sisters?

Are old, self-indulgent feelings being revived in them as the music is brought forth?

What makes you think that music has such power? What is the basis for this conclusion?

Even King David went through this experience; twice. He set up the tent at Jerusalem and began worshiping through the power of music, of which he was the teacher and leader. Then came Bathsheba and Uriah. Then next came the desire to number Israel. It never entered his thoughts as to how greatly he would be tempted; through association with the king of Tyre.

You have a gift for implying conclusions that the Bible never reaches. In the story of David, the only connection made between music and emotional health is positive. The Bible provides no evidence of music leading to evil.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

In my past job as a police detective I have done much reseach in the area of satanic crimes and the influence of music in criminal behavior and suicides. Music has a very powerful influence on people in regards to sex, drugs, suicide, violence and rebellion whether we believe it or not. We can even make fun of people who teach and believe this but it won't nullify the fact that it does.

This is an opinion. I respect the fact that it's your opinion, but I need something more in order to see the wisdom in reaching such conclusions. If music was such a powerful force for evil, why don't we find evidence of this in the Bible?

Don't let your emotions guide you, do your reseach.

I've read books written by authors such as Samuele Bacchiochi and Ellen G. White. Their conclusions seem similar to yours. However, I notice that their conclusions are based entirely on personal opinion. It's fine to have opinions, but should we present them as facts?

Also, I find your list of "expert" quotes to be rather fascinating.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

Reading some of the comments in this thread leads me to believe that some of us are just as superstitious as those early cave dwellers who thought offering sacrifices would appease the angry gods (sun, rain, wind, etc). I am waiting for the thread to morph into backward masking and subliminal messaging.....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Reading some of the comments in this thread leads me to believe that some of us are just as superstitious as those early cave dwellers who thought offering sacrifices would appease the angry gods (sun, rain, wind, etc). I am waiting for the thread to morph into backward masking and subliminal messaging.....

I still roll my eyes when I think that the first time I ever heard songs such as "Cold Nicki" (by Prince) or "We're Not Going to Take it" (by Twisted Sister) was in an SDA academy gym during a week of prayer. With age, one begins to appreciate the simple ironies.

By the way, despite all the Beatle's backmasking rumors, it does seem that Paul is very much alive!

BFA

 

[k4c]

This is an opinion. I respect the fact that it's your opinion, but I need something more in order to see the wisdom in reaching such conclusions. If music was such a powerful force for evil, why don't we find evidence of this in the Bible?

I've read books written by authors such as Samuele Bacchiochi and Ellen G. White. Their conclusions seem similar to yours. However, I notice that their conclusions are based entirely on personal opinion. It's fine to have opinions, but should we present them as facts?

Also, I find your list of "expert" quotes to be rather fascinating.

BFA

I haven't read what EGW has said about music nor do I really need to know and I believe Bacchiochi twists Scripture to fit SDA agenda.

The Bible speaks much of how we are influenced by the spirit of this world. You really have to do your research to see how society today has been formed by music.

Satan uses music as a conduit to bring life changing words into our hearts and minds. Just like the word of God has power to change lives so do all words.

Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit.

Satan is the god of this world. He has power to bless and prosper people who worship him.

Matthew 4:9 And Satan said to Jesus, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.''

Look at the lives of rock stars they have sex, money, fame and power. They have made millions upon millions of dollars through ungodly influences. They influence our youth like no other force in the world today.

At the birth of rock and roll society began to be change by it's influential power.

Drugs, sex, violence and rebellion is the byproduct of much of today's music.

Babylon was Satan's greatest influence on the history of the world nations. Through it Satan has made all nations drink of it's influence.

Revelation 14:8 A second angel followed, saying: "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, that made all the nations drink the wine of her licentious passion."

Listen to what encompassed Babylon and its inflential power. Tell me if you hear the sound of music in these verses.

Revelations 18:21-23 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. "The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. And no craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore. And the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. "And the light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore. And the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.

God goes on to say how Satan has been able to deceived all the nations through sorcery.

The word sorcery is the word (pharmakeia) which is where we get the word (pharmacy). We know what pharmacy represents.

Take some time and do your research you will have not doubt that music is a powerful influence used by Satan.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Satan uses music as a conduit to bring life changing words into our hearts and minds. Just like the word of God has power to change lives so do all words.

My comments thus far have related solely to musical styles. I've made it quite clear that I have separated out the words for the purposes of this discussion and that I am focusing solely on style.

Look at the lives of rock stars they have sex, money, fame and power. They have made millions upon millions of dollars through ungodly influences. They influence our youth like no other force in the world today. At the birth of rock and roll society began to be change by it's influential power.

You seem to be commenting on the power that a celebrity has to influence people. This is a separate issue from the subject of musical styles.

Drugs, sex, violence and rebellion is the byproduct of much of today's music.

This is a very large claim that--as of yet--has gone unsupported. Since you've done your research, please show us why we should join you in this conclusion.

Listen to what encompassed Babylon and its inflential power. Tell me if you hear the sound of music in these verses.

I do see a discussion of music, but it is a sad discussion in which the beauty of music will no longer be heard. Here, music is viewed positively and the absence of it is truly felt. Revelation 18:21-23 does not establish a cause/effect relationship between music and deception. It seems that you may be twisting the passage in order to support the conclusion you've already reached.

God goes on to say how Satan has been able to deceived all the nations through sorcery.The word sorcery is the word (pharmakeia) which is where we get the word (pharmacy). We know what pharmacy represents.

Upon what basis would we conclude that music is sorcery?

BFA

 

[VictorC]

Take some time and do your research you will have not doubt that music is a powerful influence used by Satan.

I have noticed that you haven't added anything pertinent to the topic BFA initiated. He asked what kind of music God would endorse, and you have instead resorted to music being endorsed by satan.

Is it your contention that there isn't any music that God appreciates?

This cannot be reconciled with the laundry list presented earlier in this thread showing loud cymbals, trumpets, harps, and other items resembling a major jam session.

 

[k4c]

My comments thus far have related solely to musical styles. I've made it quite clear that I have separated out the words for the purposes of this discussion and that I am focusing solely on style.
You seem to be commenting on the power that a celebrity has to influence people. This is a separate issue from the subject of musical styles.
This is a very large claim that--as of yet--has gone unsupported. Since you've done your research, please show us why we should join you in this conclusion.
I do see a discussion of music, but it is a sad discussion in which the beauty of music will no longer be heard. Here, music is viewed positively and the absence of it is truly felt. Revelation 18:21-23 does not establish a cause/effect relationship between music and deception. It seems that you may be twisting the passage in order to support the conclusion you've already reached.
Upon what basis would we conclude that music is sorcery?

BFA

WOW!!! Are you related to VictorC?

See ya later aligator...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I have noticed that you haven't added anything pertinent to the topic BFA initiated. He asked what kind of music God would endorse, and you have instead resorted to music being endorsed by satan.

Is it your contention that there isn't any music that God appreciates?

This cannot be reconciled with the laundry list presented earlier in this thread showing loud cymbals, trumpets, harps, and other items resembling a major jam session.

I agree.

BTW, K4C. Victor and I aren't related, but I'd happily call him brother. Unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting face-to-face any of the posters in this forum.

BFA

 

[VictorC]

WOW!!! Are you related to VictorC?

See ya later aligator...

I haven't met BFA, and I don't even remember his location. I guess that those sharing the unity of the faith continue to astonish you when you see that unity really does mean unity...

 

[Joe67]

This thread is devoted to the topic of music. Please feel free to discuss in this thread any topic that relates to music.

THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT THE LAW. IF YOU'D LIKE TO DISCUSS THE LAW, THERE ARE MANY OTHER THREADS IN WHICH YOU CAN DO SO!

So, what types of music do you enjoy?

Do you limit your listening in any way?

What are your views regarding music and worship?

BFA

"...any topic that relates to music..."

A wide door.

Joe