The morality of marijuana.

Cerberus~ · Dec 22, 2005

In homage to the most recent MIA marijuana thread.

Is recreational pot usage immoral? Why so?

There's nothing specifically in the Bible about cannabis, even though it was known about in that time. In terms of harm to society, it hardly compares to alcohol and tobacco, whereas they kill people, and marijuana is a known medicine.

Superpants · Dec 22, 2005

what do you mean by "MIA marijuana thread?" do the forum moderators habitually remove threads that have to do with marijuana?

12volt_man · Dec 22, 2005

Cerberus~ said:
In homage to the most recent MIA marijuana thread.

Is recreational pot usage immoral? Why so?

There's nothing specifically in the Bible about cannabis, even though it was known about in that time.

You're right. There is nothing explicit in scripture about pot.

However, there is quite a bit about intoxication, which is the point of smoking pot.

In terms of harm to society, it hardly compares to alcohol and tobacco, whereas they kill people, and marijuana is a known medicine.

Actually, wine and some beers have great health benefits. Marijuana is very destructive.

Amplify · Dec 22, 2005

Maybe I can help you out as someone who smoked dope for breakfast for about 10 years. There's a reason they call it dope my friend. It makes you one. You know that verse about how everything is permitted but not everything is beneficial? Bingo. I lost 10 years of my life searching for something where it wasn't. If you have some kind of cancer and need chemotherapy, it is a known medicine. If you have glaucoma, it is a known medicine. If you are bored or stupid or lazy, it is a known amplifier.

Superpants · Dec 22, 2005

the health benefits of wine and beer are over-rated. dark chocolate is much better for your heart than wine. alcohol (ethyl alcohol, the type found in beer, wine, etc.) is a toxic solvent.

marijuana is not "very destructive." in addition to having been used as medication for thousands of years, it does not cause intoxication. the only effect is causes (besides relieving the pain of the dying) is sleepy relaxation (and therefore should probably not be used while heavy machinery is in use).

this is not just my opinion, by the way. look up the journal of the american medical association and see what they have to say on the subject.

this plant is currently illegal to use in many areas, so it shouldn't be used. furthermore, only a medical doctor should recommend marijuana use.

Moros · Dec 22, 2005

Marijuana use is amoral. People always forget there is a middle ground between immorality and morality.

12volt_man · Dec 22, 2005

Superpants said:
the health benefits of wine and beer are over-rated.

Actually, they're not. We do know that wine and some beers have anti-oxidents that help to prevent cancer, they can lower blood pressure, they can fight off heart disease.

dark chocolate is much better for your heart than wine.

Remember though, we're talking about wine as it relates to pot, not to chocolate.

marijuanais not "very destructive"

Memory loss, low sperm count, depression, other mental illnesses...

[pot] does not cause intoxication.

You're joking, right?

Amplify · Dec 22, 2005

Osel said:
Marijuana use is amoral. People always forget there is a middle ground between immorality and morality.

Yes, I have completely forgot that. Is using a hammer moral or amoral? If I use it to nail a house together for the poor it is moral. If I use it to kill babies it is amoral. If you use weed to get high it is immoral. If you use it to soothe some kind of pain or generate hunger cravings when you are a chemo patient it is moral. Marijuana itself is amoral. How you use it is always a moral choice.

Lynden1000 · Dec 22, 2005

Both alcohol and marijuana can be destructive when used in excess, and both alcohol and marijuana can be beneficial when used in moderation. I still see no reason for singling out marijuana use as being immoral versus alcohol consumption.

What is the basic ethical premise behind the immorality of marijuana? That it is wrong to partake of intoxicating products? If so, then it is immoral to partake of alcohol.

Or is the basic ethical premise that excessive consumption of intoxicating products is immoral? If that's the case, then moderate use of marijuana would be no more immoral than moderate use of alcohol.

Amplify · Dec 22, 2005

Lynden1000 said:
Both alcohol and marijuana can be destructive when used in excess, and both alcohol and marijuana can be beneficial when used in moderation. I still see no reason for singling out marijuana use as being immoral versus alcohol consumption.

What is the basic ethical premise behind the immorality of marijuana? That it is wrong to partake of intoxicating products? If so, then it is immoral to partake of alcohol.

Or is the basic ethical premise that excessive consumption of intoxicating products is immoral? If that's the case, then moderate use of marijuana would be no more immoral than moderate use of alcohol.

Fair enough. What is a moderate use of weed, as in, one that doesn't really get you high? For most people with alcohol, it's one drink. Would you want to smoke weed in a way that wouldn't get you high, like, for the taste, or to be social? I actually still think it smells good, but that's probably just old memories.

Superpants · Dec 22, 2005

alcohol has lead to many cases of addiction that have resulted in broken homes and cancers of various types. the reason i had mentioned dark chocolate is that it has higher in antioxidant concentrations than are in alcoholic beverages. i don't know of any research papers that imply that marijuana use causes the litany of dangerous reactions that people say that it does. in fact, in october it was reported that researchers at the university of calgary found evidence supporting the claim that marijuana might grow new neurons in the brain.

the study that "proved" that marijuana causes brain damage is one that was improperly carried out by B.C. Heath in 1980. the results of his findings, which were published in the journal "biological psychiatry" have been peer-reviewed and found to be false. don't believe me? check this out from your local library:

Scallet, A.C., "Neurotoxicology of Cannabis and THC: A Review of Chronic Exposure Studies in Animals," Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior 40:671-82 (1991).

Amplify · Dec 22, 2005

I don't doubt your studies, Superpants. If smoking weed actually brings you closer to God then more power to you. It didn't do that for me, or any of the people I know.

Amplify · Dec 22, 2005

I do however enjoy the Chronic - What! - cles of Narnia on a lazy Sunday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=zLElfJ9YCh0

Lynden1000 · Dec 23, 2005

Amplify said:
Fair enough. What is a moderate use of weed, as in, one that doesn't really get you high? For most people with alcohol, it's one drink. Would you want to smoke weed in a way that wouldn't get you high, like, for the taste, or to be social? I actually still think it smells good, but that's probably just old memories.

Moderation is hard to define and open to interpretation. But you have to start somewhere, so I would probably look at what the American Medical Association or similiar organizations have to say about the point at which recreational marijana use becomes significantly injurious to human health. Anything below that would fall in the category of "moderate" use. Additionally, I would consider moderate use to be usage which does not adversely impair one's day-to-day functioning, social relationships, job, etc. An occasional joint would be moderate use. Usage that manifests itself in chronic lateness for work or damaged relationships would not be moderate use.

Cerberus~ · Dec 23, 2005

12volt_man said:
Actually, they're not. We do know that wine and some beers have anti-oxidents that help to prevent cancer, they can lower blood pressure, they can fight off heart disease.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1418.html

Studies have shown that pot does the same thing in rats.

Memory loss, low sperm count, depression, other mental illnesses...

The memory loss is akin to getting old, and only happens while high. And since pot causes euphoria, I don't see how depression factors in. I've certainly never been depressed while tokin up. Nor does it cause any mental illness, it only triggers them in people who have the illness already.

If your family has a history of schizophenia shouldn't smoke pot.

Low sperm count is nothing compared to destroying your lung on alcohol. Hell, there are prescription meds with worse side-effects than that.

You're joking, right?

Marijuana intoxication is completely different than alcohol intoxication. The state of drunkeness spoken about in the Bible is almost impossible to reach on pot.

The Seeker · Dec 23, 2005

What possible moral aspect could there be to smoking weed? I suppose if it was causing you to neglect people who depend on you (which it most certainly can, trust me), then it is best to avoid. But there is nothing inherently moral or immoral about weed, IMO.

12volt_man · Dec 23, 2005

Cerberus said:
/Marijuana intoxication is completely different than alcohol intoxication.

The principle is still the same.

xMinionX · Dec 23, 2005

I don't think it's a morality thing, really. You have to make a determination as to whether or not it's hurting you or your loved ones. If you develop a psychological addiction, then it's not good. But a little self-control can prevent that from ever happening. If you're driving a bus or teaching children while high, then it's not good.

But if you toke up a little when you get home? And you're not hurting anyone? No problem. The people I know who smoke pot include: Bank manager, bank teller supervisor, teacher, retail sales manager, secretary, and industrial laser technician.

Could they do their jobs while high? No, of course not. That's why they don't come to work high, just like you don't come to work drunk.

I smoke from time to time. I use to smoke quite a bit, but I toned down a lot, because I had a lot of school work and I balanced my priorities. It didn't hurt me, I'm pulling a 3.75 graduate GPA, and I haven't alienated any of my friends. I think, for me, there's no problem.

Cerberus~ · Dec 23, 2005

The principle is still the same.

The passages refer to excessive intoxication.

Jesus's first miracle was changing water to wine, it's not immoral to engage in mind-altering substances.

Superpants · Dec 24, 2005

i agree with cerberus. the muslims outlawed alcohol early in their religion. later, when coffee was discovered, muslim clerics refered to it as a "new type of alcohol that is worse than that which is derived from the grape, since it leaves men's minds sharp while filling their hearts with energy." missionaries that came to the new world destroyed many morning glory patches that were tended to by the indians, and killed the indians. the indians would use the morning glories to reach some sort of altered state in their religious ceremonies. the christians mistakenly thought that this lead to demonic possession.

12volt_man: the principle is not the same. the bible forbids excessive use of alcohol since drunkeness destroys health and compromises judgement. just because a chemical changes the temporary functioning of the brain does not mean that it destroys health or impairs judgement. therefore, the principle is not the same.

the drug i take is caffeine. i find it nearly impossible to wake up some mornings. i enjoy a strong cup of coffee (or two). the caffeine in coffee temporarilly alters the working of my mind, yet i don't think coffee would be forbidden by the bible.

The morality of marijuana.

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