The Moral Argument

[Ana the Ist]

Your question would open a can of worms for him and needs to be evaded.

I don't understand the thinking behind "We can figure out what objective morals are....but I'm not going to tell you how. Just take my word for it lol."

Imagine if I used that argument for anything...

"We can totally figure out how to move things with our mind...but never mind the details, I'm not going to explain the process...just take my word for it."

You'd laugh at me...maybe tell me "good luck with convincing anyone of that".

 

[bhsmte]

I don't understand the thinking behind "We can figure out what objective morals are....but I'm not going to tell you how. Just take my word for it lol."

Imagine if I used that argument for anything...

"We can totally figure out how to move things with our mind...but never mind the details, I'm not going to explain the process...just take my word for it."

You'd laugh at me...maybe tell me "good luck with convincing anyone of that".

When you start with a predetermined belief, you will see people twisting themselves up in knots, trying desperately to protect the belief.

 

[anonymous person]

I don't understand the thinking behind "We can figure out what objective morals are....but I'm not going to tell you how. Just take my word for it lol."

Imagine if I used that argument for anything...

"We can totally figure out how to move things with our mind...but never mind the details, I'm not going to explain the process...just take my word for it."

You'd laugh at me...maybe tell me "good luck with convincing anyone of that".

That's not all you don't understand.

You don't understand what ontology means either.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Great.

But I don't care about what your opinions are on moral issues.

If you don't have any facts you want to appeal to then you have nothing to show me.

If you need moral facts to have this discussion...then I strongly suggest you figure out a way to demonstrate some.


Otherwise, your argument is nothing but empty claims.

 

[Davian]

...

I am not here to evade.

Yet still you do.

I am here to give those who are sincerely wanting to know why I have the hope I do, the reasons for having it.

Is your mind-reading apparatus back from the shop?

 

[Ana the Ist]

When you start with a predetermined belief, you will see people twisting themselves up in knots, trying desperately to protect the belief.

I think in the case of morality...it's the uncertainty of opinions. People don't like the idea that they just "think" they're doing the good thing...they want to "know" they're doing a good thing.

It's as if they don't trust themselves to make good choices on their own...they want some fictional standard to exist which they can compare their behavior to. In that way, they can "know" they've made the right decision...instead of being uncertain or doubting their choices.

The sad thing is, it's that "certainty" of knowing good from bad which enables people to do some of the worst things imaginable...IMO. Perhaps a little doubt would be a healthy thing to have when it comes to morality.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's not all you don't understand.

You don't understand what ontology means either.

From Wikipedia...

"Ontology is the philosophical study of the nature of being, becoming, existence, or reality, as well as the basic categories of being and their relations."

So certainly how your objective morals "exist" or how they come to exist (becoming) is entirely relevant.

I'm sorry...you're allowed to assume something exists, but don't pretend like we can't challenge that assumption. That's the foundation of this discussion...without demonstrating the existence of objective morals, your argument is dead on arrival.

 

[Davian]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He later created man in His own Image and likeness. He created them male and female. He put them in a world where they were to live and be happy. They wanted something they thought would make them happy but that God had forbidden. They fell and sin entered the world. Her Seed eventually came into the world to testify to the truth and to show men who God was and to pay the sin debt we all owe. His resurrection was a public vindication that the debt was paid and vindication of His radical claims to divinity. The Church, His body, continues to grow and proclaim this good news. Christ is coming to judge the living and the dead and them that have been regenerated will live and reign forever with God. Them that are unbelieving and unrepentant of their sins shall suffer the torment of eternal banishment from the presence of God in hell.

There is your accurate and true description of reality.

No, by accurate, I meant, coherently and robustly described, supported with testable and falsifiable hypotheses and theories, and subject to change with exposure to new information.

 

[Lulav]

What a Shame

This thread is so full of flames if I liked marshmallows, I'd
get out my bag of them and a stick and have a party.
But I don't like marshmallows and I am not allowed to party.
So I'm just going to have to close
this thread for Staff Review.
SIGH ​

 

[Lulav]

I'm sorry Folks
This thread seems to have
run it's course

And will now be
Permanently Closed​