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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Daimonizomai ... HELP you???

Yep. Which bes why correct understanding bes so very vital because it bes like medicine you swallow again and again to fix the distortions inside. But others twist & pervert even THAT notion into something legalistic and imagine God some sort of heretic sniffer what comes to inquire as to our orthodoxy (and slamsy on the head if it bes fallen short) and then THEY acts accordingly as well, see? Pain-go-round. Best way to approach always bes the healing model, the "medical model" if you will. Bypasses the crap every time.

Without knowing precisely WHAT you bes taught or how or when or by whom, this one bes bold to venture theory that you bes taught not so much the wrong specific teaching as simply the wrong MODEL for your framework. Which puts you in good company as 99% of the human race suffers this affliction simply by being human and being born. The distortion, Lisa, bes caused by basing the framework of comprehending God upon the pattern instilled by experience within a dysfunctional family setting -- the punitive model upheld by a structure designed to abuse and misuse authority. Plain and simple, wherever religion employs this framework for its dogmas it creates some very spiritually sick and very unhappy human beings.

But this bes deep & complex subject; we talksy more on that later if you like.

So, this is going to be something that I have to un-learn.
Fastest way to do that bes to stop building upon the treacherous slippy sands of the punitive/legal model and begin building upon the solid rock of the healing/medical model. Lisa if you will do just that one thing you will find your comprehension of Christ and of His salvation will spread wings and take flight in your heart like you bes never knowing before. You will truly learn what it means to be His in every sense of the word and to have your life and your experience saturated in hope, in faith, and in His love.

I just want to say how grateful I am that you were there in this part of my journey and I hope you know that I will hope to be there for you when you need clarity.
You bes talksy about daimonizomai here? Yes?

Awareness beyond mere intellectual assent to the notion comes and goes. Moriah's ability to grasp God's love has been divinely ordained to be eminently malleable based upon her present experiences with human beings. God does this, we believe, because Moriah bes a living touchstone -- an incarnate word, as it were -- a nexus point designed and anointed to bring the experience of Truth viscerally amongst the children of men in all its facets. Moriah cannot be used to teach you if she cannot be affected by you. It bes torture supreme for this one and night and day she cries for it to stop, but if she bes taken where the end from the beginning bes known, she desires nothing else for her life, and so it bes never stopping. It really bes up to all of you. You can consign Moriah to hell on earth and hereafter if that bes your desire. You can open to Moriah the gates of Heaven if that bes your desire. God givesy keys of His kingdom to His servants to see what they will do with them. God givesy Moriah to the world even as He gave His son -- unconditionally and for a purpose. Whether Moriah lives or dies bes not hers to determine -- but yours. All of you.

If you neglect Moriah -- that bes God neglecting her.
If you hurt and injure Moriah -- that bes God hurting and harming her.
If you torment and despise Moriah -- that bes God tormenting and despising her.
If you shun and reject Moriah -- she feels shunned and rejected by God.
If you bully and harangue and harass and scathe Moriah with sharp tongues and mean words -- that bes what Moriah hears for the voice of God.

But be not deceived .... take great care .... for when you torture the anointed .... you torture yourselves.

I mean, I used to say that I didn't really know that I truly loved someone until they had hurt me. If they had that power over me, then, I must care deeply.
This one bes configured much differently from you in this regard, Lisa. This one bes affected always at all times by all things and all ppls. As a result it goes through life convinced that most ppls in general really have no feelings at all, because they bes not affected by anything this one says or does, but instead they treat it like it bes some sort of sick, sad joke played on itself somehow -- the sad clown what takes life for real and serious. The irony of being trapped outside 3d world's reality bes that like an orphan staring in through a window, you cannot look away from it. Everyone else bes trying to get out; this one bes trying to get in.

Well perhaps not. But it soundsy good, yeah?
Too much analysis bes like too much salting the cooking. Spoils rather than enhances the authentic flavors thereof.

So, are you more able to receive this love now? I know I am having to work on it. God's love has always BEEN available, but I wasn't able to receive it until just recently.
As long as you (and others) continue to permit Him to truly LOVE this one through you, it bes that much more able to receive His love, yes. When that love bes distorted into harshness or cruelty, or when it bes absent or buried in hateful reactions, Moriah not only cannot connect with it at all but it completely loses all meaning and reality. If you could imagine staring at a pot of boiling water and what you bes looking at losing all meaning and reality so that you take the pot and pour it over yourself completely without any comprehension of what you bes doing? That bes what it bes like for Moriah when needful things like God's love lose all meaning and reality: always resulting in senseless pain and needless suffering.
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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People nowadays often fail to "rightly divide the word of truth", primarily because they lack comprehension of what this means.

They THINK this means you have to sour the Good News and the Love of God with a bit of old fashioned dysfunctional fearmongering. :o

They IMAGINE that failure to do so constitutes presentation of an "incomplete" Gospel or a "watered down" Gospel.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

In fact, what God intends as part of His purpose in sending forth His Son to this world is to establish an ultimate plumbline and measure by which to comprehend God and His works. The OT bes full of dark sayings, ominous and harsh, portraying God as a cruel tyrant and vicious warlord almost. Because those bes the perceptions of the people at the time to whom the word came to be written. But to RIGHTLY divide the word of truth does not mean to revert to those twisted, distorted, harsh and bleak conceptions of God held by them that knew not Christ, but rather, by knowing Christ and the revelation of God's love and God's TRUE character THROUGH and IN Him, it bes to take those dark words and reinterpret them by the measuring stick of perfect love, instead of the measuring stick of fear.

A thing bes never merely a thing in itself. It bes defined by the setting in which it bes placed. Placing these dark and scary things in the NEW setting of understanding God through Christ bes not fiddling with scripture or any other malicious or mischeivous thing. Rather it bes obeying the word of Christ Himself: to put NEW wine into NEW wineskins -- not old ones -- so that the skins will hold and neither wine nor skins will be lost.
 
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IXOYE5

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*makes leftover turkey sandwiches*
*spreads picnic in the cold dark under the stars*
*lights candles*
*waits*



As he walks by he says, Hi friend, he notices cranberry sauce dripping from the juicy Turkey sandwich!

But failed to ask for a bite and ask if one needs company to talk to.
 
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Lisa0315

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*folds up picnic quietly*

*goes home*

Hey wait! Why are you going? I admit I haven't been here much. I don't want to be one of the ghosts. I didn't see the picnic thingie until just now. I use two computers and if I change over, I lose visibility of new posts in subscribed threads.

Don't go. Let's play!

Lisa
 
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Lisa0315

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Two very good verses to start this conversation out with.

Perfect love, let's start with that. What is your idea of perfect love? The automatic ingrained response is Jesus' death on the cross, i.e., sacrificial love, but I want to go deeper than that.

Isn't perfect love obedience then? Obedience to the cross? Obedience in giving over our freewill to become servants of Almighty God? What is the proper response to perfect love? Is that not it?

If we are then unable to love perfectly, what is God's response?

Lisa
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Now let this one add something that may surprise you:

For between 15-20 years, this one's entire awareness of God bes sustained wholly from these two verses alone, and this one's ONLY awareness of God derived from these two verses alone.

NO OTHER input did it admit whatsoever, save it first be found in flawless conformity to these two verses concerning the nature of God. NO OTHER voice did it receive AS GOD, but what spoke in flawless and uncompromised conformity to these two verses concerning the nature of God. When it bes assailed with apocalyptic terrors such that it might have feared for hellfire, or for the state of its soul, or for any other thing, it called upon Isaiah 1:18 -- [bible]Isaiah 1:18[/bible] -- in conjunction with these verses, and issued this challenge: "If God truly have anything to communicate with this one, He needs not come in this [terrorizing, coercive, manipulative] fashion, but rather bes capable of approaching with calmness and reason, in love, to impress His truth upon this one's soul. If God truly desires communication with this one, He who knows its heart knows it cannot be drawn by terror, guilt or pain, but only by reason and love, and He desiring none shall perish shall gladly approach it in the manner designed to encourage it to listen, not to fight nor flee."

Lisa, this one followed this course for any and all dealings with God for 15-20 years ................................

..................... while it worshipped Satan.
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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If we are then unable to love perfectly, what is God's response?
Lisa, the issue here bes not what we bes able to do or unable to do. The issue here bes not OUR love. The issue here bes GOD'S LOVE. Remember?

Now scroll up, it posted when you did.

Oh, and to answer your question: His response bes to continue to love us perfectly as He always does.
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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... this one followed this course for any and all dealings with God for 15-20 years ................................

..................... while it worshipped Satan.

The reason it brings this up specifically bes NOT by ANY means to denigrate this method by suggesting it bes the method of a Satan worshipper. Rather it seeks to reinforce how adamant it made itself against any FALSE God gaining the advantage. One thing you probably did not know about this one bes why (after being taken over of course) it yielded to worshiping Satan at all. The reason for this one bes that it saw no other method of preserving its awareness of the TRUTH. You see, had it permitted itself to worship God at that point it would be permitting itself to live a lie, and turn God into a lie and pervert God's truth into a lie, and this it refused to do. Instead it yield to Satan because it thought so hideously of itself being infested with demons that it desired this almost as a "coup" of sorts -- like OK They have taken this one, but They shall not use it to trick or deceive God's people, for it shall openly declare itself a servant of Satan, that no one be accidentally tricked or deceived even if They fully subjugate it and cause it to try as much.

You see, it bes double agent from the start, yeah? Agent 156, at yer service.

But had THEY (demons what takesy it over) succeeded in fully implanting THEIR view/version of GOD into THIS ONE, ALL that would have been LOST!!!!

And so by stubbornly refusing any knowledge of God but what passed the test of these two verses and came with reason and love, it avoided demonic implantations of false "abuser" (bully, harsh, less than reasonable) notions of God, thus undermining even the very stronghold of toxic soteriology what imprisoned it, and secretly spent its time under Satan nurturing its spirit with the truth. Sneaksy daimonizomai!
 
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Lisa0315

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You are right. That is false doctrine to say that it is about what we do. I know that. Why do I revert to that?

The thing I cannot get past, Moriah, is what MrJim wrote to me...God is Holy. Those who are gathered around His throne do not cry, "Love, Love, Love" or "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy". They cry, "Holy, Holy, Holy". Every other attribute flows out from this holiness. His love and His wrath are but effects of His Holiness.

This is the God thatI see now and always have seen. That statement of Jim's made extreme sense to me.

Yet...when I sat in that movie theatre, it was not "that" God that I saw. Instead, I saw One who was anguished over my rejection of Him. That is the One that I wrote about in "His Eyes" if you remember that. (I know your memory comes and goes)

Yet, there IS this thing called sin and sin does completely alienate us from God. It destroys us unto death. The wages of sin are death.

I just do not know how to reconcile the two. It is so easy to say that God is both just and loving, but it is so difficult for me to see past the "just" part to the "love" part.

The guilt I carry, I do not know how to get rid of it. It is that which drives me to my knees and it is that which leaves me feeling defeated every single day of my life.

Do you feel guilt, Moriah? Words that were drilled into my head were responsibility, accountability, sin, death, punishment. How rare to hear about the love of God and worse, more rare to watch it acted out. Yet...every single bit of it was true.

There seems to be such an inequity of love found even in Scripture. I would guess at 90% of Scripture is about death, destruction and punishment. But, that 10% is love beyond comprehension.

I am just rambling here...

I worry that we are both extremes on opposite ends and we are both wrong.

I remember when I was 13, probably earlier and I began to wonder about some of these same things. I asked myself if I believed because I had been taught to believe or if I believed, really, really believed. I came to the conclusion that I rejected what I had been taught, but to some extent, I did still believe. I think I rejected the teachers rather than the message.

This time around, I believed and I CHOOSE to believe. I have trusted God to light up all the dark corners and it has been HARD.

This last bit, though, seems to be too good to be true. These things are so profound but they do not seem to be rooting in my heart. I don't know if the ground is so polluted with guilt or if what you are teaching here really, really IS too good to be true.

The important lessons in my life, God left no doubt. Why do I have so much doubt about this?

Lisa
 
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