The Mirror of Souls

[Lisa0315]

This one would vote #4. Bear in mind the Job paradigm may not be the one best fitting your situation. There bes also the general spiritual warfare paradigm, and that one bes big, tangled, complex and convoluted. Simplest way possible would be to separate your role in this from his. So what bes spiritual warfare where you enter it may be result of his sin where he enters it, or it may be a combination of both for you both with each of you having a proportion different leaning more heavily one or the other.

Tell this one more about precisely what DID happen, from human experiential (not trying to explain it) standpoint. Tellsy the events themselves, an it may better comprehend and help you.

Okay, a timeline...you are so playing into my analytical tendencies.

• I make a profession of faith, age 5, 1972
• I grow up in very, very strict fundamentalist church
• LisaI lose my faith at age 13 after observing hypocrisy her entire life. Folks are one way in church and another way at home.
• Combine all of this with a great deal of abuse
• I live my life feeling like I am under a curse but I don't know how to reconcile back to God and become one of those I have watched my entire life.
• I have a vision in a movie theatre and I try to rationalize it away for two days.
• I finally get on my knees and cry out to God. Joy, love, freedom, and peace are received.
• My heart becomes burdened for my family. My husband is very self-destructive, partying and heavily into drugs.
• My husband makes a profession about a month later. My husband does not completely quit the partying.
• Heart Attack #1, June 2004.
• Son is diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, August 2004
• Grandmother is diagnosed with Alzheimers, December 2004.
• Husband is fired from long time job due to drug use and increasing symptoms of severe paranoia, March 2005.
• Heart Attack #2, July 2005.
• Husband is fired from second job because he did not reveal having had the first heart attack.
• Husband's drug use increases, and mental instability continues.
• Grandfather passes away suddenly, September 2005.
• Husband is diagnosed as Bipolar, September 2005.
• Husband's drug use continues. Mental state is erratic as he begins abusing prescriptions for Bipolar Disorder.
• Husband takes a job with a very shifty company. All cash basis. He promises it is just until he can find something else. It worries me because of the IRS implications. My husband is collecting unemployment while working for this company.
• April, 2006, Lisa begins preparing to leave husband as he has become so self-destructive and even abusive. Plan is to leave in July when money is available.
• I am praying all of this time for my husband's salvation and my marriage to be saved.
• June 2006, my husband is crushed between a tractor trailer and a van.
• I spend 25 days in Miami Florida nursing my husband who stays in a psychotic state most of the time.
• Return to North Carolina and have to admit my husband into a psychiatric unit two days after returning home because he became violent and was a danger to himself.
• I take over the care and nursing of my husband, administer IV's twice a day, make sure he receives his medicine correctly, and he stablizies.
• My husband recovers enough to begin driving. He immediately begins the drug abuse again.
• I find out that he is now dealing drugs.
• Financially, things are a mess. I have used every last penny of our savings (the divorce fund), there is no way out.
• I finally seek treatment for my own severe depression and am nearly hospitalized myself. Do the fancy dance with the MD's to keep out. (Sept 2006)

That is about it, Moriah except for the deeply personal stuff.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

It bes back now, bes you there?

Yeah, I was typing the timeline.

Lisa

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

OK don't be upset but this one needs some time to carefully consider your timeline and think on things. Also it promises fiance it bes one to go get our supper tonight so it bes away from computer for the next couple hours doing that (have to shower, go get the food we order out, etc.) It does not want you feeling abandoned because it had these plans already from hours ago and timing bes just difficult. But know that even if it had nothing else it needs doing it would still need some time thinking about things before posting back OK?

Meanwhile it has a question, maybe a dumb one, maybe an obvious one, but it asksy anyway. Have you ever prayed to God and just asked Him to show you what bes the meaning of all these things, and where bes Himself in them?

Talksy more later OK?

 

[Lisa0315]

OK don't be upset but this one needs some time to carefully consider your timeline and think on things. Also it promises fiance it bes one to go get our supper tonight so it bes away from computer for the next couple hours doing that (have to shower, go get the food we order out, etc.) It does not want you feeling abandoned because it had these plans already from hours ago and timing bes just difficult. But know that even if it had nothing else it needs doing it would still need some time thinking about things before posting back OK?

Meanwhile it has a question, maybe a dumb one, maybe an obvious one, but it asksy anyway. Have you ever prayed to God and just asked Him to show you what bes the meaning of all these things, and where bes Himself in them?

Talksy more later OK?

That is actually perfect for me. I have church to get ready for. Have a wonderful night with your loved one. If it is tomorrow night before we talk again, or even later, that is fine. I need to think on things too.

Oh, and to answer your question, Yeah! Like every single day since it all began.

Lisa

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Lisa, just some preliminary thoughts.
First of all. When it bes outside earlier it bes trying to ask God please if He bes willing to show this one what it means for you. When it read your list the very first thing what comes to its mind bes something entirely different from what we'd discussed so far. Anyway, it goes out, gets supper, has movie with fiance, then comes back here and bes looking ~Elsewhere~ and findsy this post:

There is also the possibility that God held back some of those things from happening earlier because he knew that later you would have Him with you to help you deal with them. This could occur in combination with any combination of the above also.

This make this one sit right up because that bes the thought it had immediately upon reading your list!! Granted not every single item applies, but many of these items for your hubby reads as a natural progression of the effects of drug abuse and bipolar cycles. So looking at these in particular:

• [....] My husband is very self-destructive, partying and heavily into drugs.
• My husband makes a profession about a month later. My husband does not completely quit the partying.
• Heart Attack #1, June 2004.
• Husband is fired from long time job due to drug use and increasing symptoms of severe paranoia, March 2005.
• Heart Attack #2, July 2005.
• Husband is fired from second job because he did not reveal having had the first heart attack.
• Husband's drug use increases, and mental instability continues.
• Husband is diagnosed as Bipolar, September 2005.
• Husband's drug use continues. Mental state is erratic as he begins abusing prescriptions for Bipolar Disorder.
• Husband takes a job with a very shifty company. All cash basis.
• April, 2006, Lisa begins preparing to leave husband as he has become so self-destructive and even abusive. Plan is to leave in July when money is available.
• I am praying all of this time for my husband's salvation and my marriage to be saved.
• Return to North Carolina and have to admit my husband into a psychiatric unit two days after returning home because he became violent and was a danger to himself.
• My husband recovers enough to begin driving. He immediately begins the drug abuse again.
• I find out that he is now dealing drugs

makes this one think these items bes consequential effects of the progression of bipolar and drug abuse. It bes natural that one experiencing those problems will have these items/events happen and certain health consequences as well. All of that would be true simply living in a causal world (world of cause + effect) even if there should bes no God but only natural laws.

So these things being the case, think of it like this: your hubby's health problems bes like someone tip the first few dominoes. Then God invisibly hold the rest from falling while He works on YOUR heart to get YOU in a position where you bes aware of Him and can COPE with what bes coming (inevitably) because now you know to run to Him, lean on Him, cry to Him, cling to Him. Before, you had no reserves. You had no connection to renew your life and hope. This stuff would have crushed you by yourself.

Once you bes "sealed" now the angels can let loose them four winds so to speak. BEFORE if those things had gone down you would have been devastated or destroyed by them. You bes lost before and have no source of strength, of renewal, of hope. Then you give your life to Christ and all that change; now He bes your rock.

More to come, including comment on that blue part; still cogitating on things.

 

[Lisa0315]

Lisa, just some preliminary thoughts.
First of all. When it bes outside earlier it bes trying to ask God please if He bes willing to show this one what it means for you. When it read your list the very first thing what comes to its mind bes something entirely different from what we'd discussed so far. Anyway, it goes out, gets supper, has movie with fiance, then comes back here and bes looking ~Elsewhere~ and findsy this post:

This make this one sit right up because that bes the thought it had immediately upon reading your list!! Granted not every single item applies, but many of these items for your hubby reads as a natural progression of the effects of drug abuse and bipolar cycles. So looking at these in particular:

• [....] My husband is very self-destructive, partying and heavily into drugs.
• My husband makes a profession about a month later. My husband does not completely quit the partying.
• Heart Attack #1, June 2004.
• Husband is fired from long time job due to drug use and increasing symptoms of severe paranoia, March 2005.
• Heart Attack #2, July 2005.
• Husband is fired from second job because he did not reveal having had the first heart attack.
• Husband's drug use increases, and mental instability continues.
• Husband is diagnosed as Bipolar, September 2005.
• Husband's drug use continues. Mental state is erratic as he begins abusing prescriptions for Bipolar Disorder.
• Husband takes a job with a very shifty company. All cash basis.
• April, 2006, Lisa begins preparing to leave husband as he has become so self-destructive and even abusive. Plan is to leave in July when money is available.
• I am praying all of this time for my husband's salvation and my marriage to be saved.
• Return to North Carolina and have to admit my husband into a psychiatric unit two days after returning home because he became violent and was a danger to himself.
• My husband recovers enough to begin driving. He immediately begins the drug abuse again.
• I find out that he is now dealing drugs

makes this one think these items bes consequential effects of the progression of bipolar and drug abuse. It bes natural that one experiencing those problems will have these items/events happen and certain health consequences as well. All of that would be true simply living in a causal world (world of cause + effect) even if there should bes no God but only natural laws.

So these things being the case, think of it like this: your hubby's health problems bes like someone tip the first few dominoes. Then God invisibly hold the rest from falling while He works on YOUR heart to get YOU in a position where you bes aware of Him and can COPE with what bes coming (inevitably) because now you know to run to Him, lean on Him, cry to Him, cling to Him. Before, you had no reserves. You had no connection to renew your life and hope. This stuff would have crushed you by yourself.

Once you bes "sealed" now the angels can let loose them four winds so to speak. BEFORE if those things had gone down you would have been devastated or destroyed by them. You bes lost before and have no source of strength, of renewal, of hope. Then you give your life to Christ and all that change; now He bes your rock.

More to come, including comment on that blue part; still cogitating on things.

This is really helping me, Moriah. I am going to pray on these things as well.

Lisa

 

[BelindaP]

Hi, all. Joining the discussion and copying over one of my posts from over there.

*extremely puzzled look*

This one cannot believe it never occurred to you to regard those things as "an attack from the enemy." Bes that not the very first thing most conservatives think of when bad things happen to them, particularly if/when such things happen as a direct result of something whats would be seen as a powerful "victory for God"???

if this one had just given itself to God and suddenly had calamity befall it, it would probably imagine such a thing bes an "attack of Satan" on it. Its ability to view things in this specific vernacular bes much obliterated now, but it still remembers that line of thought and bes surprised it did not be your own.

Satan cannot touch me without God allowing it. So, even if disease, and everything else that happened IS from Satan, it is only because God allowed it. So, yeah, ultimately, these things are from God.

Many lessons learned, faith is strong, but the fear of God developed not because of being taught fear but because of seeing prayers be answered by catastrophic events.

Lisa

I tend to agree with Moriah on this one. When a person moves closer to God, Satan will mobilize his forces. You will note that it was not you who was stricken, but your husband (an unbeliever at the time). While Satan needs permission to strike a believer, unbelievers have no such protection.

What we do have is the promise that all things work for the good of those that love the Lord. What was intended as evil has ultimately worked for good. This wasn't a case of God striking your husband to bring him close, but of Him working the bad things that happened for good.

Okay, here's another way to look at it. The "parent" analogy.

If God is a loving father (abba) to us, then we would expect him to act as a good parent role model.

Would a good parent break their children's leg, or make them sick, or make someone they love die, in order to get their attention or teach them something? Then why do we think God would do that to us?

Would a good parent allow their child to be hurt or kidnapped or hit by a car in order to teach them something?

How can illness, pain and death be compared to a timeout? Or even a spank, although you all know I don't approve of even that type of hitting.

Let me give you an example from my parenting. The house I lived in when my son was a baby had gravity heat, which meant that the floor vents got very hot. As he learned to crawl, we told him again and again to stay away from the floor vents. Being a child, he just had to touch one time in spite of our best efforts to stop him. The day finally arrived where he did touch and get burned. Our response, of course, was to immediately comfort him and dress the burn. Once he had stopped hurting, we gently explained to him about staying away from the floor vents in the future.

THAT is how God disciplines. He doesn't cause us hurt, but will let us bear the consequences of our actions. And when we do screw up, the first words out of His mouth aren't 'I told you so, why didn't you read the Bible.' They are words of comfort and a healing hand to help us through the hard times we have created for ourselves. Later, He will point out where we screwed up, but it is always in a gentle and loving way.

God is a God of wrath and justice. But that time is reserved for the last days and the last judgment. At that point, people will have had so many chances to change that the wrath will be merited. He is not in the business of visiting wrath until every last option has been tried and failed.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

[.....] The day finally arrived where he did touch and get burned. Our response, of course, was to immediately comfort him and dress the burn. Once he had stopped hurting, we gently explained to him about staying away from the floor vents in the future.

THAT is how God disciplines. He doesn't cause us hurt, but will let us bear the consequences of our actions. And when we do screw up, the first words out of His mouth aren't 'I told you so, why didn't you read the Bible.' They are words of comfort and a healing hand to help us through the hard times we have created for ourselves.

This one just thinksy this here so very very beautiful. How wonderful to think of God that way as a loving, comforting big one what takes the little one gently and tends to its pain and gives it comfort and healing first and foremost, then WAITS for its pain to be DONE before moving on to instruction. He tends the pain first, so that its mind can be clear to listen and not feel it bes scolded with no regard to how badly it bes hurting, before gently showing the little one how it got that hurt and what it can do from now on to make sure it never has to feel that hurt again.

What child could fail to respond positively to such a course? What child would want to repeat that painful thing so as to rebel at that point? And what child could confuse the source of the pain with the loving arms that ministered so tenderly to its hurt, bringing relief and comfort, caring about its feelings and needs first and foremost? It thinks here you paintsy perfect picture of exactly how God combines love, tenderness, comfort, healing, and instruction to get the job done.

Later, He will point out where we screwed up, but it is always in a gentle and loving way.

And that bes because really, ultimately, His goal bes for our welfare, for our best interest, for US to be happy, safe, healthy, comfortable, at ease and in peace. His goal bes not to throw His weight around bossing us about. His goal bes not to shove our nose in "nyah nyah I'm big and you're small, I'm smart and you're dumb, I'm right and you're wrong, and there's NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!" His goal bes NOT to crush our spirits with shame and self-loathing in payback for us being disobedient, unthankful, or just plain ignorant. His goal is to instruct us so we may keep ourselves from harm.

God is a God of wrath and justice. But that time is reserved for the last days and the last judgment. At that point, people will have had so many chances to change that the wrath will be merited. He is not in the business of visiting wrath until every last option has been tried and failed.

Lots of things this one wants to speak about here, but does not think this bes the time or place to risk inciting a debate over "The End". So, will wait for a more opportune time for that.

 

[BelindaP]

I'm still studying eschatology and learning, so I don't stand firmly on anything I say about it at this point. The above is my best understanding to date, but it may not be close to correct. Much to learn there. It's a topic for another thread.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I'm still studying eschatology and learning, so I don't stand firmly on anything I say about it at this point. The above is my best understanding to date, but it may not be close to correct. Much to learn there. It's a topic for another thread.

Agreed, it can only muddy the waters here as we all bes bound to be at different areas of understanding on that. Best to leave off muddying the mix with the "hereafter" (especially the ULTIMATE FINAL DAY hereafter, not just "after death") and just stick to the here & now. What can we determine here & now about how God treats us, deals with us, interacts with us. What can we determine here & now about the meaning of events in our lives -- whether these be God-ordained, attacks from enemies (human and non-), or simply random occurrences of unpleasant "poopystuffs". And related things whatever Lisa wishes talksy on.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

What can we determine here & now about the meaning of events in our lives -- whether these be God-ordained, attacks from enemies (human and non-), or simply random occurrences of unpleasant "poopystuffs". And related things whatever Lisa wishes talksy on.

It just occurs to this one that attacks from human enemies maybe incited, motivated, initiated, instigated, orchestrated, executed, etc. by agency of non-human enemies operative through them. It recalls the time Christ rebukes Satan in response to what seems VERY INNOCENT comment by Peter -- and what this one bes sure Peter means NO harm WHATSOEVER, and likely Peter bes taken aback at the Lord's response, too! -- thus showing that even in one choosing to follow Christ the non-human entities can take advantage to press an attack, even where no such thing bes consciously intended by the human agent. This may be just one more reason why it bes important to love our enemies and pray for those what persecutes us, because they may genuinely have no clue or concept what they bes USED by malicious forces to do, even in God's name. (Remember Peter thought he bes acting upon and within the Lord's favor and for His (Christ's) well being at the time, too .....)

WOW there bes a LOT of rich concepts packed in that one little incident .... must unpack this further .....

 

[Lisa0315]

I have had a couple of days to digest this. I don't know if I can put this in words, but this has been a big piece of the puzzle for me. Last week, God showed me how much He loved me, and this week, I have, through you, learned that the curse of sin really has been lifted.

Now, here is the thing, and I am going to pray for this, and I hope y'all will pray for me as well.

This is not an easy lesson for me. You know how you can know things intellectually but it doesn't quite connect in the heart? That is kind of how this is for me.

All my life I have been taught and believed one way, a distorted way, I think. Let me say that another way.

I believe that I was taught correctly, but Satan distorted the teaching of God's chastisement in my mind to the point that I felt that the curse of sin would always be with me.

So, this is going to be something that I have to un-learn.

I just want to say how grateful I am that you were there in this part of my journey and I hope you know that I will hope to be there for you when you need clarity.

Which brings up another related conversation...

Moriah,
I remember you saying something about God being pretty cruel to you as well once upon a time. Do you still feel that way? Is God's love only head knowledge to you as well, or have you received that deeply into your heart now? I think part of our problem is that when human beings have abused us, we find it nearly impossible to comprehend love without hurt.

I mean, I used to say that I didn't really know that I truly loved someone until they had hurt me. If they had that power over me, then, I must care deeply.

So, are you more able to receive this love now? I know I am having to work on it. God's love has always BEEN available, but I wasn't able to receive it until just recently.

Lisa

 

[BelindaP]

I will happily pray for you, Lisa.

 

[Lisa0315]

Another question...

How many other people are there out there like us?

How many go to the extreme of cruel love because they have not yet conceived of God's love?

How many go to the extreme of lovey-dovey love because they reject the idea that God is holy and MUST separate the sheep from the goats IN THE END?

Okay, gotta get back to work now...

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

I will happily pray for you, Lisa.

Thank You, Belinda.

I am seriously going to log off now. We are at the busiest part of our year right now. It will ease up around February.

Lisa

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Brought to you HERE from ~Elsewhere~

I don't know and that is why I think the warning is so intense. If you take Matthew 7 in the context of Jesus' command to forgive one another...it has even deeper meaning, I think, and a greater warning. Forgive others or God will not forgive us!

This one thinks rather that by harboring non-forgiveness toward others we basically cut ourselves off from the capacity to receive forgiveness. Again, gets back to the "what measure you mete out" idea ... it bes rather karmic if you really thinksy on it, and let not that word phase you; karma bes just an eastern term for what Christians view as what u sow = what u reap. By harboring unforgiveness a person programs themselves to either (a) be too proud and "above" everyone to feel THEY ever need forgiving; OR (b) feel themselves to be unforgiveABLE (again, the projection thing coming into play here, the way ppls tend to look in the mirror instead when they look at one another and mistake their own projected reflections for BEING that other).

The mirror thing bes interesting in this regard. If you setsy up two mirrors facing you get an endless corridor of reflections of reflections of reflections of reflections of .... there bes some superstitions what holds that setting two mirrors facing bes a method of opening a gateway to some dark nether region and allowing evil spirits to come through into this dimension. When viewed as a metaphor or analogy for judgment-passing, this makes a GREAT deal of sense spiritually. By passing judgment (projecting reflection of self) onto another (setting up the first mirror), one catalyzes the necessary response of that other to recognize a judgment has been passed -- which in itself bes a judgment as well. So in order to recognize/reflect that fact, the other party bes unwittingly drawn into casting their own reflection, e.g. "well if *I* were the one saying/thinking that it would be passing judgment, therefore that person bes passing judgment on me". This sets up the second mirror what bounces the reflection of the first back at itself. The pingpong reflection effect can bounce endlessly between two persons in this fashion rather hurtfully and harmfully as each now views the other solely in terms of the reflected reflections of the reflections of his reflections, so to speak. The "corridor" bes opened at this point and the demons/evil spirits come pouring through (metaphorically speaking -- these being strife, envy, discord, divisiveness, faction-making among friends/acquaintances, etc.) The only way to shut this down, obviously, bes to knock down the mirrors and the only way to do that bes forgiveness. Someone has to go first and usually it ends up being the one judged in the first place what has to do that to break the cycle because the initial passer of judgment bes typically blind to the fact of what he/she catalyzed.

So, I am just saying that we should be very careful. There may be times as Christians when we are called to judge a person, i.e., are they a false prophet? Even then, though, we do not lean on our own understanding but would seek the face of God to know whether or not that person is truly preaching a false gospel or not.

If or when such assessments be rendered PROPERLY, they shall have nothing to do with judgment passing -- this bes entirely separate consideration from that. Such assessments should always be made purely upon message, not messenger, and left there. Ppls grow & change and so does their understanding, and presentation of something whats contents you might perceive as "false" because it meets not YOUR current understanding of Truth has NOTHING to do with the motive or intent of the individual whose message you assess. It may be the full measure of all THEY understand to be the Truth, and the conflict MAY be nothing more than a matter of being at different levels of understanding. In order to avoid judging other ppls hearts/intents/motives, one bes wise to simply assess content value itself and leave speculation upon the person delivering it OUT of the picture. You never know -- it could be their understanding of Truth surpasses your own and you simply bes not ready to comprehend what they bring, just like a child believes molecules look like balls on sticks and bes not ready to comprehend complex electron shells and such, and would likely reject them if they bes presented confounding his present level of comprehension.

So, if I see someone preaching a false gospel, first, check my own heart and sin. Second, seek the face and will of God. Third, follow Bible prescripts on how to confront the person. Finally, offer forgiveness to the person even if they are unrepentant. IOW, carry no grudges.

FYI the "Bible prescripts" on "confronting" a person apply to interpersonal conflicts, not to disagreeing with another's theology. It bes not your place to "forgive" someone for having different theological comprehension from yours -- that bes absurd in the extreme and smacks of setting self up as arbiter of truth, IMO. It bes more profitable exercise that if you see someone preaching something what seems new wine, put it in new wineskins and examine it before God on your own to see if it holds. Trying to shove it into old wineskins causes them to burst and both to be lost. Assuming whatever you do not agree with theologically constitutes a "false gospel" bes the epitome of hubris, IMO, unless we bes talking about what Christ clearly condemned, that being Pharisaical attitudes, self-righteousness, judgment passing, social disparity, legalism, etc.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

[bible]Romans 2:1[/bible]

Romans 2:1 makes it all pretty clear. "He who smelt it dealt it," basically, combined with "it takes one to know one." By passing a judgment it bes guaranteed you bes lookin' in the mirror, not at another but at projection of yourself.

In addition to what it writesy above already, basically what happens goes like this. Each time we see another's behavior, or hear another's words, we perceive that through a specific filter of what that same behavior or expression would mean coming from ourselves. We judge what we see in others based entirely upon what we see in ourselves. So if, for example, this one looks at someone else becoming angry about something, it thinks in terms of its own anger, what it would mean if this one bes getting angry instead, or if it looks at another's retort it thinks what would that retort be coming from itself. It bes not unique in this; all corporeal creatures do this unconsciously, whether they recognize it or not, realize it or not, because it bes all we CAN do. We CANNOT be inside the mind or heart of another person, so as to know them thoroughly from the inside out the way they know themselves (much less the way God knowsy them). Even if we "read" them (as this one frequently can do) so as to intuit or glimpse some hidden thing -- a stray loud thought, a disguised sentiment or feeling, a hidden motive -- we still cannot fully know what those things mean to THEM, but only to ourselves.

So every judgment we pass bes automatically a judgment upon ourselves. If we judge so as to "disallow" something to someone else what we really bes saying bes "I do not permit myself to do that, feel that, express that in that way" or whatever. If we judge so as to dismiss and invalidate another, it bes because we bes projecting. Example -- sometimes ppls look at someone hurting and instead of being roused to compassion and caring they indulge in dismissiveness and invalidation, saying that person bes only "attention seeking" or being "melodramatic" or "pity partying". What they really bes saying bes rather, "if it bes ME saying that or doing that, *I* would be doing so out of self-pity, or *I* would be the one having a 'victim mentality' or *I* would be the one being melodramatic, attention-seeking, etc." -- whatever. They bes not judging accurately the true internal state of that other person; rather they bes applying their own criteria for themselves to that person. This bes how so many misunderstandings and hurts arise, because instead of seeing the other, we project ourselves onto them and rail against or oppose those things we see in ourselves.

That bes oversimplified explanation whats not even touching upon memory associations and interactive pattern triggers and all other sorts of things what goes into some of these incidences.....


edited to add: mind you, passing a judgment bes far different from merely making an observation; the two should not be confused for purposes of levying an accusation nor should the latter be claimed for instances of the former to avoid detection.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Holy Spirit would do well to learn techniques of proper seduction and enslavement. This "whisper softly suggestions" leaving it up to the lazy, distracted and avolitional whether they "hearsy" or not just does NOT cut it for us.

Good grief.

Bes that considered blasphemy? (*imagines Jerome deleting posts, citing blasphemy YET AGAIN ... LOL*)

God's Perfect Will = God's Conditional Will + Man's Freewill

Satan does the enslavement and hates freewill. God loves us so much that He allows us to choose. Unfortunately, we usually choose wrong.

Lisa

Hmmm. Who lights the lake of fire, then? Who opens and shuts the gates of the Kingdom? Who decides whether or not to grant repentance?

Satan does not hate free will. Trust us on this. He bes the original advocate of self-governance after all ....

In regards to humans, Moriah. Other things and beings, freewill does not apply to, nor repentance.

Repentance is a freewill response to grace. God does not grant repentance, but He may arrange the entire universe just so this individual or that individual will come to repentance.

No, no, no. Satan perverts freewill by making evil look good. Freewill is as much about truth as it is about choice.

Lisa

No fair dropping something like this and running. To hell with bed, get back here and explainsy.....STAT!

It dragsy to mirror place..... you no getsy away from us!!! NO no no no NOOOO!!!!

HOW does Satan pervert free-will by making evil look good??? HOW bes free-will as much about truth as it is about choice???? EXPLAINSIES!!!!!!!!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Another question...

How many other people are there out there like us?

How many go to the extreme of cruel love because they have not yet conceived of God's love?

How many go to the extreme of lovey-dovey love because they reject the idea that God is holy and MUST separate the sheep from the goats IN THE END?

One word: Virus.
Virus has cure.
Virus bes destroyed.
Sentient creatures? Live again.

 

[Lisa0315]

No fair dropping something like this and running. To hell with bed, get back here and explainsy.....STAT!

It dragsy to mirror place..... you no getsy away from us!!! NO no no no NOOOO!!!!

HOW does Satan pervert free-will by making evil look good??? HOW bes free-will as much about truth as it is about choice???? EXPLAINSIES!!!!!!!!

Good Morning. Sorry about that, but I need my sleep. It is one of my coping mechanisms. Practically MD prescribed.

I will answer this later at work.

Lisa