The mechanics of prayer.

[TheStraightener]

Souls and spirits are things that are intangible and are of faith.
Claiming some inside track to what constitutes miracles resulting from prayer, rather than the complex web of the natural world, would require some sort of evidence to be convincing.

Every impossible event resulting from prayer would be excellent grounds to be convincing. We don't hear much of the impossible occurring.

Perhaps, miracles are the result of a chains of events.

It's the same with healing.

God seems to be able to cure things within the realms of modern medicine but where is he when it comes to an undeniable tangible healing miracle such as Downs Syndrome or amputees then he is no where in sight.

People Say that atheists won't accept anything non natural? Show me downs syndrome being cured or a severed limb growing back as a result of prayer or God and then we've got something to work with.

Until then spare me your unverifiable, unprovable, presupposed nonsense.

 

[CabVet]

It's the same with healing.

God seems to be able to cure things within the realms of modern medicine but where is he when it comes to an undeniable tangible healing miracle such as Downs Syndrome or amputees then he is no where in sight.

People Say that atheists won't accept anything non natural? Show me downs syndrome being cured or a severed limb growing back as a result of prayer or God and then we've got something to work with.

Until then spare me your unverifiable, unprovable, presupposed nonsense.

I brought these up many times. AIDS and cancer are way up there with Downs and amputation. We hear about the former being "cured" by prayer constantly, but never the later. Why is that?

 

[juvenissun]

Yeah but how

Because if they don't know what he did then how can they be sure he answered them

This question has been answer in my first response to you OP.
A straight forward answer (fits you better) is: nobody knows how, and we should NOT know how.

 

[TheStraightener]

This question has been answer in my first response to you OP.
A straight forward answer (fits you better) is: nobody knows how, and we should NOT know how.

If you have no clue how God did it... Then what qualifiers have you used to determine it was actually God that did it and not some other explanation?

 

[juvenissun]

How can you assert that it works when in the same breath you state that it's impossible to know that it works?

Good question and that is the secret of being a Christian.

A prayer (of request) does not ask for something which will happen, but something not knowing how could it happen, or something has chance to go wrong. If one knows how to get a thing done in 100% confidence, then there is no need to pray.

When a prayer is answered for the first time, nobody can be sure what was going on. But if prayers are answered for a few more times, even the second time, only a stupid will doubt the force of prayer.

Of course, if you do not recognize it at the first time, then you will never know that it happened the second time.

[Lots of questions remain. Hope you will keep asking]

 

[TheStraightener]

Good question and that is the secret of being a Christian.

A prayer (of request) does not ask for something which will happen, but something not knowing how could it happen, or something has chance to go wrong. If one knows how to get a thing done in 100% confidence, then there is no need to pray.

When a prayer is answered for the first time, nobody can be sure what was going on. But if prayers are answered for a few more times, even the second time, only a stupid will doubt the force of prayer.

Of course, if you do not recognize it at the first time, then you will never know that it happened the second time.

[Lots of questions remain. Hope you will keep asking]

Has this happened to you? Have your prayers been answered?

If so I'm very interested to hear about it.

 

[juvenissun]

So.... you have no way of differentiating an actual answered prayer on the one hand and just self-deceiving superstition on the other hand?

For example, if you pray for rain and, lo and behold it starts to rain, how would you go about finding out if the rain was actually the result of the prayer or simply coincidental?

A very critical aspect of praying is the sincereness in your mind.

If raining is not one of your critical concern, then you do not care and you will not know. How critical is critical? YOU are the only one who knows. and it can not be measured by any objective standard. That is why praying is a 100% personal experience. And that is what it should be.

Praying could be simple and straight forward, could be complicated, and could take a long history. It gives an unique feeling between you and God only. Just like nobody else could understand the exact feeling between you and your lover.

That is why when a Christian claims that his prayer was answered, nobody else knows exactly what's going on with him. And that is the way it SHOULD be.

--------

Praying is a conversation between a believer and his God. If you do not even recognize that God, how could you evaluate the communication between a believer and his God? So, the discussion of this issue is much more beneficial to believers, rather than to unbelievers.

 

[juvenissun]

One thing would make me change my mind...


Evidence.


Got that?

Yes. I am the evidence. What kind of other evidence do you expect to see?

 

[CabVet]

Yes. I am the evidence. What kind of other evidence do you expect to see?

Convincing evidence.

 

[TheStraightener]

Yes. I am the evidence. What kind of other evidence do you expect to see?

Yeah... I can't really see you getting a Nobel Prize for that one.

 

[juvenissun]

If you have no clue how God did it... Then what qualifiers have you used to determine it was actually God that did it and not some other explanation?

My feeling, and my follow-up actions.

I am not more stupid than anyone else. I certainly do not want to cheat myself. If prayer does not work, why do I want to tell myself that it works? If praying does not work, why do I want to keep praying? If I don't really think my prayer is answered, then why do I want to give more money to God (church) to express my thanks?

 

[juvenissun]

Yeah... I can't really see you getting a Nobel Prize for that one.

I never pray for that.

 

[TheStraightener]

My feeling, and my follow-up actions.

I am not more stupid than anyone else. I certainly do not want to cheat myself. If prayer does not work, why do I want to tell myself that it works? If praying does not work, why do I want to keep praying? If I don't really think my prayer is answered, then why do I want to give more money to God (church) to express my thanks?

Can you give me an example of something you prayed for and the outcome of the prayer?

 

[juvenissun]

Has this happened to you? Have your prayers been answered?

If so I'm very interested to hear about it.

Yes yes and yes. I get what I prayed for. I am continuously getting it more and more. The more I prayed, the more I am getting it. (It could be money. But that is not my case.)

 

[TheStraightener]

Can I have a specific example of something you prayed for and recieved please

 

[juvenissun]

I will ask it again then. If God is capable of curing cancer (I hear about people being cured of cancer by God every day) why is he not capable of making an amputated limb grow back? Do amputees have less faith than cancer patients?

This is an excellent example of a wrong prayer, if it were yours before or now.

Strictly speaking, what you said has nothing to do with praying.

 

[juvenissun]

Convincing evidence.

Like what?

 

[TheStraightener]

This is an excellent example of a wrong prayer, if it were yours before or now.

Strictly speaking, what you said has nothing to do with praying.

If the person is claiming that they prayed to be cured and they were (which I've heard many claims) ... Then it has everything to do with praying

 

[juvenissun]

Can I have a specific example of something you prayed for and recieved please

I can give you an answer.

But, so what? I can tell you I love my wife. Could you ever understand what I am saying until you also fell in love?

When you become a faithful Christian, I will share my experience with you.

 

[TheStraightener]

Why aren't you willing to give me a specific example of something you prayed for?


You never know, if your example is good enough I might end up being a believer.

Surely that's a good thing?