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The meat of the matter

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Jerushabelle, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. Jerushabelle

    Jerushabelle Well-Known Member

    How many times I've been told that all I talk about is milk; that I'm a stranger to meat! Oy! :doh:And yet I wonder who has missed the message? For Scripture tells us in 1 John 4:7-12 -- "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us." So we know from Scripture that God is love and if we want to be like God and show that we love God, we exemplify love.

    Do I want to spend my time straining at gnats in the he/she does and doesn't do this or that? No, I don't. That's like trying to swallow a camel...totally useless. So, do I really just talk milk? I wonder. Just because we speak with authority about what we perceive to be meat doesn't mean that we know what we're talking about. Who knows, then, what the meat of the matter is? Yeshua.

    Yeshua is our teacher and master. Yeshua says, "There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs." Ah, the whispering of Ruach HaKodesh, the Holy Spirit, for that is through Whom Yeshua whispers and through Whom Scripture is revealed. Folks tell me that's not enough. We have to be theologically correct, and hermeneutically correct and in context, searching for hidden meanings in Scripture until we're straining at gnats while swallowing camels and nit picking ad nauseum. Yeshua says no. In Matthew 22:35-40, one of these sorts of nit pickers questioned Yeshua: "One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?' Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and Prophets hang on these two commandments." So from our teacher and master we learn that if we want to be obedient and Torah observant, these are the commandments we must learn and exemplify first because this is the meat (not the milk) of all Scripture.
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  2. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

    Oriental Orthodox

    Interesting you note some of what you did in regards to I John 4 and what Messiah said on love...

    For Christ lived out what the apostle John noted--even when all everyone around him felt that they knew the "hidden meanings" of scripture...and yet refused to participate with those who they deemed to be of lesser understanding/worth. Yet Christ associated with sinners at morally upright or at least morally neutral places, such as meals in people's homes .

    However, because of his love for others, He was willing to go/do what many were not willing to do. I think Jesus was speaking directly to this issue here (Luke 10:25-39):
    But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

    In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

    “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

    The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
    Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” (Luke 10:25-37)

    Those who would have been considered as the most loving of Torah= in the above story not only did not help the half-dead man, but when they saw him they actually passed by on the other side of the road

    Considering their positions as Priest and Levite, I’ll assume that they considered the man who lay dying on the side of the road to be unclean, as not only did they not want to help (touch) him, they went to the other side of the road to avoid any possible contact with him. They were more concerned for their own “clean-ness” than they were for the very life of the man bleeding, obviously needing aid, lying at the side of the road. Who did Jesus say to imitate? The consummate Law Keepers, a Priest and a Levite? No... He instructed the expert in the law to imitate the unclean man, a Samaritan.

    The responses of the priest and the Levite are truly some of the highlights of the story since they would have become ritually "unclean" by touching what seemed to be a dead person, Leviticus 22:4----with the implications for us being very striking since we in Christ have been made into priests ourselves/in many ways are as they were, 1 Peter 2:8-10

    It brings up the point: If someone around the world in Nigeria is taking care of orphans and widows (or the elderly) in the name of Yeshua--and yet another claiming to know all of the secrets of the Torah is barely able to say "Hi" to their neighbors or show any concern because they don't see them as "spiritual", who would be considered he most observant? Romans 2 automaically comes to mind on the matter, as it concerns what the apostle noted...

    And with the Good Samaritan parable, it's fascinating to see how the hero of the Story was one who was considered to be the most "unclean" in the day---a Samaritan, one whom many would call a "half-breed" compared to their acts of righteousness.....and yet the Samaritan kept the true SPirit of the Law more than those who should have known better.

    In speaking on that, I'm reminded of some of the scenarios I grew up with on the Mission field--both abroad and locally, as one can be a missionary within their own culture---and concerning the Inner City/Urban culture, the issue of the Good Samaritan always was a big deal. For my major (Human Services), I did my Senior Internship at an organization aiding those on the streets and working in the Children's Church department with impoverished children at the organization called-City of Refuge-Bringing Hope to Those Who Live on the Margin. For more, one can also go here

    And amazing seeing the myriad of people we'd have to deal with on the block---from single mothers to prostitutes to drug-dealers/many various shades of "homeless" people and others in wild lifestyles.

    Got to actually pray for/witness to a person hooked on crack on Valentines's Day....with him being amazed that God would even consider loving him. The places many lived---from the projects invested with garbage/rats to having homes where the conditions were often unsanitary to the streets, for those homeless---to the food they ate that was often non-healthy, you saw people in REAL LIFE.

    And yet LOVE made the difference. Eating what was given out of respect/concern....talking to them/hanging out. The amount of stories I'd hear from those who used to be hopeless on the streets and in the realm of being qualified by others as “not deserving of aid/help” and how someone looked past the flaws and showed compassion on them in such a way that they truly saw the love/mercy of Christ and it made the difference in them being solid disciples/aiding others today. Living life with real people, it's hard not to be reminded of the parable of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15:11-31, alongside all the other ones spoken, were shared in light of the Pharisees looking down upon the tax-collectors (deemed traitors/crooks by the Jewish people ) and the prostitutes (unclean, immoral, etc).
    Luke 15
    The Parable of the Lost Sheep

    1 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”

    3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
    The Parable of the Lost Coin

    8 “Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[] and loses one. Doesn’t she light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.’ 10 In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
    The Parable of the Lost Son

    11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

    13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

    17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

    “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

    21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
    22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

    25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’
    28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in.’”
    The three parables on the subject of being lost and found were never primarily about Gentiles being brought back into the Jewish community (in regards to anyone saying "older brothers" are those Jews who don't believe Gentiles are meant to be the same in stance as the Jews). The portrayal of the elder son and his resentment was in many ways a subtle criticism of the grumbling Pharisees and scribes toward those within the Jewish community who they deemed to be lower-class Jews...ones who weren't as "Worthy" of salvation as they were. It is no small issue when Yeshua noted that the tax collectors/prostitutes were entering in before the religious leaders of Christ's day..as they understood their need of salvation (Matthew 21:30-32 )

    In regards to the greater context of Luke 15, why were the Pharisees and teachers of the law bothered that Jesus associated with the people he did? The religious leaders were always careful to stay "clean" according to the OT law. In fact, they went well beyond the law in their avoidance of certain people and situations and in their ritual washings. By contrast, Jesus took their concept of "cleanness" lightly. He risked defilement by touching those who had leprosy and by neglecting to wash in the Pharisees' prescribed manner, and he showed complete disregard for their sanctions against associating with certain classes of people. He came to offer salvation to sinners, to show that God loves them...and he wasn't concerned with the accusations brought to him by being with the "wrong crowd."

    For the Lord associated with sinners because he wanted to bring people considered beyond hope the Gospel of God's kingdom...just as the shepherd was not concerned so much with the bigger flock as much as he was about that one lost sheep. And with the parable Jesus shared, the younger brother was a perfect example of the Jewish indivduals who went away from the Lord/were redeemed and loved just as strongly by the Father as the older/"righteous" brother was. It was hard for the older brother to accept his younger brother when he returned after living a notoriously sinful life--but the Father had to show him that love required forgivness and compassion.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  3. Henaynei

    Henaynei Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Echud! Al pi Adonai...

    United States
    In the Greatest Commandment statement you see something totally different that I and most Messianics I know.

    I see you saying we must love one another - ok, true, but G-d said back in D'varim that we are to love HaShem with all our substance and love our neighbors as well. Nothing new there. :)

    What I and others see in the mentioned statement by Yeshua (and the prophets) is that one must obey Torah to know and do what G-d considers love. Loving as our heart or minds tell us how to love or what is love is self deceptive and sets ourselves above G-d's instructions.

    b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}
  4. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

    Oriental Orthodox
    On what you note, as it concerns what the majority of Messianics have noted on the subject, Messianic Jew Dan Juster actually spoke on the issue not too long ago in-depth, as seen here:

    There is a level of awareness of what it means to love that comes from studying Mosiac code--although that was ONE aspect of the entire Torah/Instruction of the Lord.....and many things Messiah noted alongside others expanded on the reality of things/brought things into greater awareness....and later, the authors of the epistles.

    Much of what you note goes to the heart of the issue as it concerns what the majority of Messianics consider--counter to what many parts in the name of MJism advocate when saying that only those who had Mosaic instruction knew how to love others. For that was not the case back in times precedding it nor the times afterward---and it's deceiving of the heart whenever people trust one level revelation without seeing whom it points to.

    As another Messianic Jew said best:

    Regardless of how many within MJism have noted the same, it is rather amazing seeing that it's deemed as either too "easy" or "not enough" to serve/love others practically ..as if that was not the heart of Torah to begin with, according to what Christ said in Luke 10:25-39.

    When it is at the point that doing what the Lord commanded--loving Widows and orphans and walking justly/humbly and love mercy ( Micah 6:7-9 Micah 6, James 2:12-14/ James 2 )--something is wrong. And I say that in light of how often I saw many within certain Hebrew Roots circles literally dismiss anyone as not loving God's law as much as them since they often talk on it/how much more observant they were compared to others.....even though they'd NEVER go out of the way to love/serve others practically and were only focused on the theological. For true observance will always be demonstrated by service to others more so than service to the mind with how much one may theologically understand.
    James 2
    brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

    5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

    8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”[b] also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

    12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
    For many, it comes down to what Paul noted in Romans 13:
    Romans 13:9

    Love Fulfills the Law

    8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
    Galatians 5:6
    For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
    Galatians 5:5-7

    Paul quoted from Exodus 20:13-15,17 and Deut. 5:17-19/Deut. 5:21 as it concerns some of what the Mosaic Code said--though his central basis for love being the greatest came from Lev. 19:18...on love for the Lord/neighbor. The concept of the "Royal Law" is something that flowed from that understanding, as he also noted in Galatians 5:5-7/ Galatians 5 and where he stated "serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself" ( Galatians 5:12-14 ). This is based solely on what the Lord Jesus also indicated when he was asked on what the greatest question was---and he repeatedly noted the same on how it was Love for the Lord/Love for one's neighbor ( Matthew 22:33-35 /Matthew 22, Mark 12:27-29 / Mark 12:29 Mark 12 ). It seems that the Lord went out of his way to make clear that loving one's neighbor was something that everyone--Jew or Gentile---was required to do......and was always the standard.

    And it was a very SIMPLE standard.

    This is exactly what Paul noted in Romans 2 when he noted in no uncertain terms that those who were without the Law would be judged on the basis of what they know, just as those with Mosaic Law (as it concerns the Jews) would be judged based on what the Lord told them.

    The lady who may be an Aboriginal---only knowing of how Jesus is Lord and that he wants us to serve as He served us---and choosing to wash feet or work in soup kitchens is just as observant to the Lord as the person who may be either circumcised or celebrating the Festivals. One is a matter of observance based on what one knows through the Mosaic, whereas the other is based on observance of the Spirit behind all of the Lord's instructions to His people. In both cases,the call to observe as the Torah commands is in play--but one is not necessarily a lesser believer compared to another who may be on a differing level--nor can another command another to stop observing since he or she is seeking to honor/love the Lord. It's the beauty of what the Lord noted in the Torah :)
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  5. Jerushabelle

    Jerushabelle Well-Known Member

    You seem to be implying that this is not Messianic teaching. Am I correct in that understanding? Yes or No?
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  6. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

    Oriental Orthodox
    Curious if you've ever seen this video...

    I actually saw sometime earlier this year due to one of my friends wanting me to check it out..and although I thought it was excellent on many points, many things can easily be taken the wrong way if the proper context is either forgotten or lost in translation when terms aren't defined. If interested, here is a rebuttal of that video made by an Orthodox priest.

    For religion isn't the best term to describe what it is that he was trying to convey. As James 1:26-27 notes"
    James 1:22-27

    New International Version (NIV)

    22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do. 26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    Also, for another..
    1 Timothy 5:4
    But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.
    1 Timothy 5:3-5
    There is the reality that certain forms of religion were beautiful to the Lord...one that loved justice and mercy and kept oneself from spiritual compromise with worldliness.

    Any religion that leaves love out of the equation, as Yeshua commanded, is not a religion that the Lord said he favored. In fact, it's rather the opposite. And there are other scriptures noting the reality of how false religion that has no lov is worthless--especially when doing all of the outer aspects of what the Lord requires and yet completely missing the Spirit, such as when the Lord rebuked his people for doing as he commanded with sacrifices/temple worship and yet they couldn't care less for the Lord since they tolerated idolatry and injustice in the land...and to them, it was all good ( Jeremiah 7:1-3/ Jeremiah 7 , etc ).

    The book of Amos is rather blunt on that issue, if seeing how much the Lord spoke through that prophet to declare how he was tired of buisness as usual/making a mockery of the religion he instituted:
    Amos 5:21
    “I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me. 22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
    I will not accept them.
    Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
    I will have no regard for them.
    23 Away with the noise of your songs!
    I will not listen to the music of your harps.
    24 But let justice roll on like a river,
    righteousness like a never-failing stream!
    Amos 5:20-22

    Amos 8:10
    Hear this, you who trample the needy
    and do away with the poor of the land,

    5 saying,
    “When will the New Moon be over
    that we may sell grain,
    and the Sabbath be ended
    that we may market wheat?”—
    skimping on the measure,
    boosting the price
    and cheating with dishonest scales,
    6 buying the poor with silver
    and the needy for a pair of sandals,
    selling even the sweepings with the wheat.
    7 The LORD has sworn by himself, the Pride of Jacob: “I will never forget anything they have done.
    8 “Will not the land tremble for this,
    and all who live in it mourn?
    The whole land will rise like the Nile;
    it will be stirred up and then sink
    like the river of Egypt. 9 “In that day,” declares the Sovereign LORD,

    I will turn your religious festivals into mourning and all your singing into weeping. I will make all of you wear sackcloth and shave your heads. I will make that time like mourning for an only son and the end of it like a bitter day.
    Amos 8:9-11
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  7. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

    Oriental Orthodox
    One would expect that within that comes the reality of not seeking to look down upon others where they're at, as it concerns love.

    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  8. Jerushabelle

    Jerushabelle Well-Known Member

    I agree. One would if one chooses to honor God. At least that is how Yeshua sees it from His words. God, on His worst day, is wiser than man's wisdom and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. It is because of God that we are in Yeshua Messiah, who has become for us wisdom from God -- that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. So when we boast, we boast in the Lord.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  9. Jerushabelle

    Jerushabelle Well-Known Member

    Interesting video. Thanks for posting.
  10. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

    Oriental Orthodox
  11. Jerushabelle

    Jerushabelle Well-Known Member

    I see nothing revolutionary about 2000 year old Scripture as it pertains to Messianism.
    I did not know this thread had been moved here and the good Chaplain asked about your post so I addressed his question and it so happens to answer your comment here so I am linking to my response.
  12. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

    Oriental Orthodox
    Got the name of the rabbi/Messianic Jewish school of thought you got the information you posted from, named Gabriel Simkin. Very interesting in what he had to say....:)
  13. Laureate

    Laureate whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

    Now to be theologically correct literally means to correctly portray the Word of Theos/Eloheem, and because you have done such a fine display of correctly portraying the Word of Eloheem, you (Jerushabelle, and Easy G (G2) are being Theologically correct, for you have neither stepped to the left or the right of his word, otherwise someone would have probably pounced on you by now with a flury of scriptures pointing out otherwise.

    I believe you were probably referring to one who holds his doctrinal interpretations as being equal to our Divine doctrine, and thus being Theologically correct according to their interpretation of scripture, if this is the case my brother, I feel you!

    When two or more individuals use a word to portray a thought, that word is legitimized by their usage, and the meaning of every word is determined by the context in which it is used, this is only superceded by the Holy Spirit and Scripture from whom one may receive a Divine definition of a word or term that is not found or used elsewhere.

    Historical context is important to understand history, yet I'm afraid some people limit their knowledge of the scriptures by clinging only to some of the viable information that suits them, instead of all the viable information one can attain from the scriptures, where is the reverance in that?

    How can I say my scriptural view is not distorted if I only accept some of the viable content made available unto me?

    Is it receieved from the Holy Spirit? is it intelligble? is it harmonic with the rest of the scriptures? then it is viable!

    Anyone who entertains the option to pick and choose between the viable parts of the scriptures is a hypocrit to me, not because I think they are, but because that is the message I perceive from both the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

    I believe sister Henaynei sentiment stands to reason, for contray to popular opinion 'True Love' is not unconditional, it can't be, for Love is a condition of the heart and mind, when you step out of its perimeter it is no longer a condition of love, and to assume to know what love is with out our Maker defining it's term's, we are just as subject to under estimate it's condition, as well as over estimate it's dynamics;

    Hence many atheist and agnostics do not believe, actually, can not believe a Divine Author is overseeing worldly affairs, esp., knowing in their heart that they could do a better job at overseeing it themself, based on what they perceive is righteous.

    Surely most who use the term, unconditional love' are actually referring to the fact that one can love another no matter what condition the other person is in, and though your condition may determine in what manner you should be loved, True Love itself is not contingent on the condition you are in.

    Correction is an aspect of love! But I'm afraid it is not perceived as an act of love by many anointed ones.

    The following excerpt was taken from a poem I posted in the poetry section of CF forums title Elijah v.s. Baalim (part 2), it expressess my scriptural convictions, which compels me to do my best to comply with the Law of love.

    YHWH (ee' hu ah) means existence therefore Im all by my self.

    Just take a look around, there is nothing else,

    before, behind,

    nor on either side,

    not above, or below,

    just myself and I alone.

    That which is, was, and is to come,

    I possess many members yet my body is one.

    To love your neighbor as your self is not an option it's a plea,

    for what you do to any member is what you do to me.

    I kill, and I make alive.

    I maim, and I heal.

    the pain that you have is mine,

    and all that you feel.

    So, dont you ever be afraid

    to kneel down and pray,

    to the one who can save your soul,

    and as for the priest,

    beware of their yeast,

    for they expound upon what they don't know.
    Last edited: May 8, 2012
  14. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    Nice poem

    The world is transformed when born again
    The beauty of His creation is brighter
    There is a peace that enters the soul
    That is beyond understanding

    The eyes see His world His way
    They see the opportunities to do good
    They see behavior in His Light
    They see His Loving Hands upon the people

    The ears hear His voice
    They hear things the way He hears them
    There is music in the air
    There is His still small voice guiding His Ways

    There is the still small voice
    speaking to the heart of His Ways
    Teaching His truths
    And showing us how to live His Life
  15. Temptinfates

    Temptinfates Newbie

    Years ago, My wife and I were having some financial troubles. Out of love my father-n-law decided he was going to put a new deck on our house. Actually, the house
    was my wife's, so he didn't want to hear what I thought about it. So, he spent aabout $10,000 onn the deck..
    He didn'y want to hear about the fact that we had water leaks that were destroying our downstairs. My wife and I were strapped financially. So, for years we did what we could with our situation. He didn't want to consider that the water problem is where we really needed the help.
    Later, we needed to sell the house as I goy a transfer. Then he blew up about the water problem. Well, he didn't want to hear it before..okay, what's my point?
    The point is that saying you do something with love in your heart does not always make it right. Some people preach love, but blindly do what they want to do than consider someone elses views before they act.
    I went to a church for years when I was young. I had a friend that always went with me 3-5 times a week. We helped with all kinds of things all the time. We were known by the leadership. I had a flat tire and asked to borrow $10 to get the tire repaired. They couldn't help me. I have seen many things like this. Then they get up and preach love..lol.
    Love is not blind. You can't just go do something out of what you think is love and expect someone to be thankful to G-d for it. If I Need oil for my car and you bring me a tire out of love, then what good was that?
    Now, if you ask me what I need, then help me, then love works, If you blindly assume that what you do is out of love, I might reject it. If you see I am hungry and bring me a pork sandwich out of love, what good have you done, since I don't eat pork?
    People have this concept that no matter what they do "in love" is right for a situation when it is not. How is it that people do not consider this?
    Just because you "believe you have love in your heart" does not justify your actions no matter what you do. People use that verse and disregard common sense and wonder why people don't accept "their love". I hope this makes sense to you.