The Meaning of Meaning

[Received]

I love the cartoon. It's as if man is the only animal that can confuse itself.

Or man is the only animal that's fundamentally different from other animals.

Either because he's really, really good at confusing himself (through generations of adaptive id suppression) that it's not about sex, food, and survival, or because, you know, he's just different on some fundamental level -- I'd say his ability to use language, which fosters consciousness, and makes this type of confusion possible.

 

[Inkfingers]

I love the cartoon. It's as if man is the only animal that can confuse itself.

If you think that life is summed up by "eat, survive, reproduce" I pity you.

Or, and here's an idea for you, we are not animals but rather are creatures who evolved out of animals into spiritual beings with the potential capacity to recognise the intelligence behind the events of the universe.

But hey, if you want to be one of plato's pigs keep on rolling in the mud (but don't expect to be granted the privileges of humanity)

 

[Received]

If you really think about it, I think you'll find that we conclude agency when things are too good for coincidence. So a crab that digs in the "message" "hello" either indicates that God is somehow magically using the crab to convey some deep message about the universe as benevolent or whatever, or it's just, well, a coincidence.

How do we "know" that when someone else speaks to us that they're really conscious? Because they're using a combination of words in such a way that it seems -- too good to be just coincidence. But it's still possible the person is on a tape recording-like loop and really a battery-powered robot.

Religiosity is really the too-good-for-coincidenceness that we take for granted with human beings applied to a presumed deity in the sky. And how can you really argue against such a thing? Only by pointing out that what seems to be too good to be true (or coincidental) really is explained as just normal or natural enough to be true -- i.e., giving a naturalistic explanation.

But anyways, apropos the OP, we can never determine agency through our interpretive processes with meaning. We're always limited by our own subjectivity when trying to figure something out -- agency or not agency, meaningful or not meaningful? Regardless of any agency that created this set of letters or event that we interpret as meaningful or not. IOW, it's the old fashioned problem of authorial intent applied to everyday life: we just can't infer an author given the way things are or appear to be. We can only take guesses as to whether something is coincidental or not and conclude intentionality or not based on this.

 

[TillICollapse]

I love the cartoon. It's as if man is the only animal that can confuse itself.

For several years, I viewed self-awareness as a detriment, not a an advantage or a positive trait.

It's a great cartoon, but come on now ... man isn't the only animal that can confuse itself Shall I offer up countless Youtube evidence lol ?

 

[variant]

What you're saying here is that you are your own author. You have authority over your life and your own intentions give your life its meaning.

I am saying that an external author isn't necessary.

We often accept external narratives into our lives but that is because they appeal to us.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If you think that life is summed up by "eat, survive, reproduce" I pity you.

Or, and here's an idea for you, we are not animals but rather are creatures who evolved out of animals into spiritual beings with the potential capacity to recognise the intelligence behind the events of the universe.

But hey, if you want to be one of plato's pigs keep on rolling in the mud (but don't expect to be granted the privileges of humanity)

"If you think that life is summed up by "eat, survive, reproduce" I pity you."

I don't know how you got this from what I wrote...but I think you're reaching for something that isn't there.

"Or, and here's an idea for you, we are not animals but rather are creatures who evolved out of animals into spiritual beings ...."

What's a "spiritual being"?

 

[Ana the Ist]

For several years, I viewed self-awareness as a detriment, not a an advantage or a positive trait.

It's a great cartoon, but come on now ... man isn't the only animal that can confuse itself Shall I offer up countless Youtube evidence lol ?

Lol please do...it could be fun.

 

[Davian]

Or man is the only animal that's fundamentally different from other animals.

Either because he's really, really good at confusing himself (through generations of adaptive id suppression) that it's not about sex, food, and survival, or because, you know, he's just different on some fundamental level -- I'd say his ability to use language, which fosters consciousness, and makes this type of confusion possible.

I do not see in what way that is a dichotomy. There is no fundamental difference, other than our ability to articulate our confusion.

 

[Davian]

If you think that life is summed up by "eat, survive, reproduce" I pity you.

Or, and here's an idea for you, we are not animals but rather are creatures who evolved out of animals into spiritual beings with the potential capacity to recognise the intelligence behind the events of the universe.

But hey, if you want to be one of plato's pigs keep on rolling in the mud (but don't expect to be granted the privileges of humanity)

To paraphrase the question I put to the OP, how would you show that there is actual "intelligence behind the events of the universe", and that you have not simply projected your anthropomorphic wishes upon the universe?

 

[TillICollapse]

Lol please do...it could be fun.

Hey you asked for it.

I usually can't stand these types of vids ... however I watched this one through to the 1:00 mark, where I found my fav dog out of the bunch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfBG0d5Oj3c

 

[GrowingSmaller]

To paraphrase the question I put to the OP, how would you show that there is actual "intelligence behind the events of the universe", and that you have not simply projected your anthropomorphic wishes upon the universe?

And how do you get a Muslim to believe in evolution?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5UTDzfS0Wc

 

[Received]

I do not see in what way that is a dichotomy. There is no fundamental difference, other than our ability to articulate our confusion.

To say there is a fundamental difference in terms of our use of language qualifies pretty hard. It's this faculty of language -- at least in our distinguished way (other primates having the ability to manipulate symbols does not indicate the capacity for syntax and semantics which qualifies as language in our use) -- that makes us not just all about sex, eating, and survival.

 

[Davian]

And how do you get a Muslim to believe in evolution?

I don't know. How do you do that?

 

[Davian]

To say there is a fundamental difference in terms of our use of language qualifies pretty hard. It's this faculty of language -- at least in our distinguished way (other primates having the ability to manipulate symbols does not indicate the capacity for syntax and semantics which qualifies as language in our use) -- that makes us not just all about sex, eating, and survival.

Keep going. What do you think are we all about, beyond sex, eating, and survival?

 

[Received]

Keep going. What do you think are we all about, beyond sex, eating, and survival?

Good question!

To answer it, tell me your response to this:

A man is completely happy and content sitting in his back yard at night watching the grass grow and thinking about life.

Sex, eating, or survival?

 

[Davian]

Good question!

To answer it, tell me your response to this:

A man is completely happy and content sitting in his back yard at night watching the grass grow and thinking about life.

Sex, eating, or survival?

I would put that in the animal behavioural category of "play".

Anything else?

 

[Received]

I would put that in the animal behavioural category of "play".

Anything else?

Oh, hidden category!

So to you thinking about the meaning of life is the same thing as a kitten throwing around a ball of yarn?

 

[variant]

Oh, hidden category!

So to you thinking about the meaning of life is the same thing as a kitten throwing around a ball of yarn?

It's more abstract to be certain, just not substantively different.

 

[Davian]

Oh, hidden category!

Was it your intent that I be limited to those three categories?

So to you thinking about the meaning of life is the same thing as a kitten throwing around a ball of yarn?

No more than sharing a plate of nachos with friends is the same thing as piranhas stripping an unfortunate critter of its flesh.

Is that all?