The Meaning of Life

[elman]

Perhaps you just have not learned, or a better description would be forgotten, the language required to recognize such all around.

And perhaps the love and compassion by the other animals does not exist and therefore is not subject to being recognized.

 

[elman]

If you are referring to the ego by which you are conditioned to identify with throughout your up bring and societal identity... I would say no, that is not the true-you. I think this essay by Osho best describes what I am trying to get across, it's lengthy but well worth the read >>>

http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm

But you, if the wife escapes, divorces you, goes to somebody else, you are completely shattered - because she had been paying attention to you, caring, loving, moving around you, helping you to feel that you were somebody. Your whole empire is lost, you are simply shattered. You start thinking about suicide. Why? Why, if a wife leaves you, should you commit suicide? Why, if a husband leaves you, should you commit suicide? Because you don't have any center of your own. The wife was giving you the center; the husband was giving you the center.

This is how people exist. This is how people become dependent on others. It is a deep slavery. Ego HAS to be a slave. It depends on others. And only a person who has no ego is for the first time a master; he is no longer a slave. Try to understand this.

Love is real and it is good, not slavery. Having a relationship with others that brings pain if it is severed is a good thing, not slavery and not a bad thing. All of life that matters is about relationships with others. It is good to remain with your wife for decades and love her and receive love from her and much happiness is possible in this relationship. It would be a bad thing to leave her and go sit under a tree and meditate your life away. Being completely self sufficient and impervious to the world around you and being unaffected by what happens to those around you is not Heaven and not enlightened. When this body dies and becomes dust, if the Creator does not take you home with Him to live with Him, you will be dead and you will not live again. Worms etc. living as the result of digesting your body will not change that.

 

[Mysticus]

Simply being alive and breathing is not a showing of compassion and love on the part of the one doing the breathing. My body becoming worm food when I die is not a showing of love and compassion on my part. Someone going to a lot of trouble to help me when I need it, is a showing of love and compassion more than simply living and breathing without helping me would be.

Help when "you" need it? That is not an expression of love and compassion, that's an indication of your selfish identity.

I have already posted links to examples in which other forms of life have exhibited empathy, and those are just a few of the known examples, while I would suspect there plenty more that have never been recognized by the media. But an even greater perspective is that if it were not for the likes of worms aerating the soil for planets to grow along with the likes of the flora and fauna of the waters and soils of the world, "you" wouldn't have breath of air or a bite to eat.

And like you said, what is the body is but an aspect of that process... the body eats food, and indeed is and will be food.

 

[Mysticus]

Love is real and it is good, not slavery. Having a relationship with others that brings pain if it is severed is a good thing, not slavery and not a bad thing. All of life that matters is about relationships with others. It is good to remain with your wife for decades and love her and receive love from her and much happiness is possible in this relationship. It would be a bad thing to leave her and go sit under a tree and meditate your life away. Being completely self sufficient and impervious to the world around you and being unaffected by what happens to those around you is not Heaven and not enlightened. When this body dies and becomes dust, if the Creator does not take you home with Him to live with Him, you will be dead and you will not live again. Worms etc. living as the result of digesting your body will not change that.

Of course to love and respect other beings, friends, family, etcetera throughout one's life is not only a good thing but a beautiful thing. But I think you're confusing a sense of ownership with love.

I love my wife, children, and all others in my life not because they are "my" wife and "my"children or "my" relationships, but instead because I recognize the beauty of our relationships and the uniqueness of each. I do not want the women I call wife to simply be "my" wife, but instead, like I want for my children and all other beings, I want her to be happy and her understanding of life to grow and be fulfilling. That is what I call love and compassion...

 

[Mysticus]

Love is real and it is good, not slavery. Having a relationship with others that brings pain if it is severed is a good thing, not slavery and not a bad thing. All of life that matters is about relationships with others. It is good to remain with your wife for decades and love her and receive love from her and much happiness is possible in this relationship. It would be a bad thing to leave her and go sit under a tree and meditate your life away. Being completely self sufficient and impervious to the world around you and being unaffected by what happens to those around you is not Heaven and not enlightened. When this body dies and becomes dust, if the Creator does not take you home with Him to live with Him, you will be dead and you will not live again. Worms etc. living as the result of digesting your body will not change that.

The Universe is home, while change is a constant, IT never began and IT will never end... consciousness is the Well-Spring of Creation; Now.

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you. --- Gospel of Thomas

 

[elman]

=Mysticus;37117437]Help when "you" need it? That is not an expression of love and compassion, that's an indication of your selfish identity.

You misread what I wrote. I was talking about someone showing love to me.

I have already posted links to examples in which other forms of life have exhibited empathy, and those are just a few of the known examples, while I would suspect there plenty more that have never been recognized by the media. But an even greater perspective is that if it were not for the likes of worms aerating the soil for planets to grow along with the likes of the flora and fauna of the waters and soils of the world, "you" wouldn't have breath of air or a bite to eat.

Yes I need air to breath and live, but air is not love. Other animals showing empathy does not make them equal with humans in the ability to be empathic with others.

And like you said, what is the body is but an aspect of that process... the body eats food, and indeed is and will be food.

Which is the way things are and has nothing to do with loving action.

 

[elman]

The Universe is home, while change is a constant, IT never began and IT will never end... consciousness is the Well-Spring of Creation; Now.

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you. --- Gospel of Thomas

Thomas is a gnostic gospel and may or may not be quoting exactly what Jesus said. Jesus was not saying my body is the kingdom of God. He was saying the kingdom of God was not of this world. It is like God Himself, spiritual which mean not physical.

 

[Mysticus]

One cannot make another understand that the interdependence of existence and the natural balance of nature is the most pristine expression of love and compassion. What is going on here is that we have different understandings in respects to such, which is of course fine. But like I have written before there is nothing about a human being to suggest that we are separate from the animal kingdom nor the natural world. And seeing that you will not allow yourself to consider IT beyond your notion that we as humans are somehow better than the animal kingdom and created by some anthropomorphic being existing outside the Universe, it is unlikely you will notice such anytime soon; which of course is also fine.

I am not sure how familiar you are with Gnostic philosophies and or Jewish mysticism, but I would say for someone to better understand the meaning of the saying attributed to Yeshua, the man who became known as Jesus Christ, an overview of both would be useful. I would also suggest reading some of the sayings and stories attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, the man who became known as Buddha.

And just to offer a bit of insight regarding to the meaning of "the kingdom" and "the crown" in respects to Jewish mysticism, a system of thought Yeshua was likely exposed to and even educated in, here is a description of the Sephiroth (Tree of Life)>>> "Kether" means The Crown, "Binah" means Understanding, "Chokmah" means Wisdom, "Geubrah" means Strength, "Chesed" means Mercy, "Tiphareth" means Beauty, "Hod" means Splendor, "Netzach" means Victory, "Yeshod" means Foundation, and "Malkuth" means The Kingdom... "Adam" means Humanity while "Kadmon" means Primal.

 

[Mysticus]

To elaborate some on mysticism in respects to Christian art, Jesus Christ wearing the crown or emanating a halo is symbolic of Enlightenment, while pointing at his heart is symbolic of Understanding, the flame that is often associated with the sacred heart is symbolic of Life. The shape surrounds Jesus Christ in this picture is called Vesica Piscis and is the shape that occurs when two circles intersect each other's center. Therefore Vesica Piscis is symbolic of the making of the two into One.

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." -Gospel of Thomas

 

[elman]

To elaborate some on mysticism in respects to Christian art, Jesus Christ wearing the crown or emanating a halo is symbolic of Enlightenment, while pointing at his heart is symbolic of Understanding, the flame that is often associated with the sacred heart is symbolic of Life. The shape surrounds Jesus Christ in this picture is called Vesica Piscis and is the shape that occurs when two circles intersect each other's center. Therefore Vesica Piscis is symbolic of the making of the two into One.

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." -Gospel of Thomas

You are correct that I am not a canidate for belief in the gnostics ideas of the world being made up of peices of Sophia, the god of Wisdom etc. It seems to me when one says the Creator is not separate from the Created we have no Creator and I am fairly sure I am not God and not the Creator so I am not easily convinced otherwise. Buddah taught some things I agree with expecially when he was encouraging love for others, but reincarnation and getting to enlightenment on my own effort without any help from God is not reasonable to me. I agree that many things in the Bible and concerning diving truth are written symbolic terms but I get the feeling you have pushed the symbolism to the point there is no substance, no reality at the core. I am not trying to be offensive and hope you will understand I am simply expressing my reactions to your postings. I fully understand I am making many mistakes in trying to understand divine reality.

 

[Mysticus]

You are correct that I am not a canidate for belief in the gnostics ideas of the world being made up of peices of Sophia, the god of Wisdom etc. It seems to me when one says the Creator is not separate from the Created we have no Creator and I am fairly sure I am not God and not the Creator so I am not easily convinced otherwise. Buddah taught some things I agree with expecially when he was encouraging love for others, but reincarnation and getting to enlightenment on my own effort without any help from God is not reasonable to me. I agree that many things in the Bible and concerning diving truth are written symbolic terms but I get the feeling you have pushed the symbolism to the point there is no substance, no reality at the core. I am not trying to be offensive and hope you will understand I am simply expressing my reactions to your postings. I fully understand I am making many mistakes in trying to understand divine reality.

Generally, from the Gnostic perspective God is the Infinite foundation of existence and All emanates from God. Sophia is wisdom, while matter is the Demiurge. The Demiurge is ignorant of the Infinite of which it is but a part and believes itself to be the All Mighty. Sophia is aware of the Infinite Divinity which animates matter into living beings. The Divine that makes matter the living is within all beings and becoming aware of and experiencing the Divinity is call Gnosis, which means knowing. That is a concise description of Gnosticism.

I myself do not follow any particular dogma and prefer a comparative study of religions in general. My spiritual living is more that of a monistic perspective or mystic experiencing. And I do not think interpreting symbols in relation to what is experienced takes away substance in any way, but instead is the opposite of such- which is recognizing the substance of which the symbol is representing.

 

[Mysticus]

Elman, if you or anyone els are interested in reading some writings that are considered to be Gnostic, the Gnostic Society is a good site to visit>>> http://www.gnosis.org/library.html

The Gospel of Thomas is posted on that site and is not a long read.