The mark, the number, the name

[Mateo]

Use of any one of the three runs you afoul of God; or so the Bible says. Many have and do speculate as to the meaning of this. What must be remembered is that these things were told us within the greater context of Rev 13. It describes a situation where one person will eventually be able to exercise world wide control of the ability to buy or sell. This being the case then we would be well advised to look at developements in the area of commerce for indicators of how the mark , number and name will finally come to be manifest.

A peek at the original Greek reveals another aspect of what is called "the mark" that is not generally considered when speculating on this subject.


Rev 13:16 And 2532 he causeth 4160 all 3956, both small 3398 and 2532 great 3173, 2532 rich 4145 and 2532 poor 4434, 2532 free 1658 and 2532 bond 1401, to 2443 846 receive 1325 a mark 5480 in 1909 their 846 right hand 1188 5495, or 2228 in 1909 their 846 foreheads 3359:


Greek for 1325
Pronunciation Guide
didomi {did'-o-mee}
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 2:166,166 a prolonged form of a primary verb (which is used as an altern. in most of the tenses)
Part of Speech
v
Outline of Biblical Usage

1) to give

2) to give something to someone

a) of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage

1) to bestow a gift

b) to grant, give to one asking, let have

c) to supply, furnish, necessary things

d) to give over, deliver

1) to reach out, extend, present

2) of a writing

3) to give over to one's care, intrust, commit

a) something to be administered

b) to give or commit to some one something to be religiously observed

e) to give what is due or obligatory, to pay: wages or reward

f) to furnish, endue

3) to give

a) to cause, profuse, give forth from one's self

1) to give, hand out lots

b) to appoint to an office

c) to cause to come forth, i.e. as the sea, death and Hell are said to give up the dead who have been engulfed or received by them

c) to give one to someone as his own

1) as an object of his saving care

2) to give one to someone, to follow him as a leader and master

3) to give one to someone to care for his interests

4) to give one to someone to whom he already belonged, to return

4) to grant or permit one

a) to commission
For Synonyms see entry 5836

Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 413
AV - give 365, grant 10, put 5, show 4, deliver 2, make 2, misc 25; 413


As may be seen from the references above we GIVE the mark. We do not receive it. This is important to remember if one is to properly discern how this thing will eventually be manifest. Another thing to bear in mind is the timing of these events as set forth in the Bible. Most see these things as something that will suddenly happen as if someone threw as switch and this thing suddenly appeared. Gradualism is ever the tool of our adversary and I think the implementation of this worldwide system of control of commerce is no exception. Indeed it would appear to be in the process of implementation as we speak. What follows is a recent news article:





Business

Corrections



Ananova:
Shops Without Chip-And-Pin Liable For Fraud

Retailers not signed up to chip-and-PIN have become liable for fraudulent transactions as changes to the card payment system come into force.

From now on responsibility for fraud switches from the banks to those shops who have not upgraded to the new system.

Businesses who have upgraded will be protected for PIN and signature transactions.

But the move has angered some business groups, who claim the banks are pushing through the changes to reduce their own liability before retailers and consumers are ready.

The Forum of Private Business said the changes - which it described as the greatest since decimalisation - would result in chaos.

"The FPB has been deeply concerned for some time that chip-and-PIN is being crowbarred in by the banks, which are desperate to transfer liability for fraud," it said.

But APACS, the Association for Payment Clearing Services, stressed the programme was on course and going well.

A spokeswoman said: "We are pleased to say that as we start 2005 we're exactly where we aimed to be - over 600,000 of the UK's 860,000 tills have been upgraded to the new, more secure way to pay.

More than three in four of us have at least one chip-and-PIN card in our wallet and they are increasingly being used."



When reading about "chips" one should know that this refers to a chip that holds information about the carrier of the card. Specifically it carries amongst other information what are termed "bio-identifiers". These bio-identifiers are your thumb print and your retinal scan. The eye being in one's forhead and the thumb in question being on the right hand and both being associated with a PIN (personal identification NUMBER), alarm bells should be sounding within the mind of the prudent.

This same card system is being looked at for implementation world wide, one country at a time. We have been trained to use cards as a means of identification and it is increasing difficult to engage in commerce without a SSN (try getting a bank account without one).



My question is; at what point do we begin to say "it is happening" and at what point are we obligated to do something about it?

 

[ZealouS]

Very good post, thank you Mateo. I actually heard that President Bush is is going to make it a must for all federal employee's and contractors to have this technological form of identification.


http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1042681&t=Nation+/+World&c=26,1042681


there is a link.

 

[Mateo]

Very good post, thank you Mateo. I actually heard that President Bush is is going to make it a must for all federal employee's and contractors to have this technological form of identification.


http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1042681&t=Nation+/+World&c=26,1042681


there is a link.

Thanks for the link. Here's one that describes the implementation of this system in the U.S. under the guise of a "driver's license".


http://www.dojgov.net/national_license-01.htm

 

[Hidden Manna]

The problems with the traditional view of the mark of the beast.
The first thing one must understand about Revelation is that it is a book composed almost entirely of symbols that a first century Jew would have found immediately recognizable. These symbols were used before in such books as Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Zechariah.
When a “mark” is spoken of, it should bring to mind a previous reference to a mark, found in another place in the Old Testament. The “mark” received upon the right hand or the forehead, is a Jewish typological picture (as is virtually all of Revelation), not to a “physical” mark on a persons body, but to the fact that in Jewish thought form (which is where John was coming from).
But how did one, receive “the mark” and what did it mean in Jewish thought?
It means that those who “took the mark” willingly, on their “right hand” (the Jewish picture of action and power), did whatever they did willingly for Rome, and they acted in accordance with that ungodly religious system (Pantheism).
The “mark” on the foreheads, was referring to the fact that Rome and their ideologies/ religions etc, were controlling their “minds and thoughts” of those who willingly followed this mind set, like we see in (Luke 19:14) But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, “We will not have this man to reign over us.’
And in (John 19:15) But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!” And in (John 11:47-48) Then the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, “What shall we do? For this Man works many signs. If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.” The original audience factor cannot be overlooked.
Every emperor represented the beast while in power, and, therefore, demanded allegiance (taking the mark, symbolically). Apostate Judaism enforced allegiance to Rome as John later stated: “We have no king but Caesar!” Those who did not bow to this evil alliance are those who, rather, received the ‘mark’ of the Spirit of Life.
It is a perfect picture of this action as seen above. in John. This is the biblical meaning of the “mark of the beast.” Those who “took the mark” in the foreheads, were referring to the fact that Rome and their ideologies/religions etc, were controlling the minds and thoughts of those who willingly followed this mind set. All the Jews understood this typological picture.
Since John was a Jew he used numerous Jewish allusions out of the Old Testament in his book of Revelation. John writes in Greek, he thinks in Hebrew, and the thought has naturally affected the vehicle of express.” The same language of John’s Revelation when a “mark” is spoken of, should bring to mind a previous reference to a “mark” found in Ezekiel 9:3-6. In that context, Jerusalem was also about to be besieged and destroyed (by the Babylonians). The Lord commanded an angel to place “a mark on the foreheads” of those that lamented the wickedness of the city. This angel is described as having “a writer’s inkhorn at his side” (9:3), with which he was to mark the righteous.
It is clear from the context that this was not to be taken literally, as if an angel needed to carry a pen around with him and an inkhorn in which to dip it. This was a figurative (symbolic) way of showing that there was a specific class of people within the doomed city that were being set apart for preservation (9:6).
In Revelation, a similar “mark” is placed on those whom God wishes to preserve (7:3, 14:1). A “mark” is also received by those loyal to the beast, one which sets them apart for destruction (14:9-11). The mark is an emblem of ownership (John 19:14-15.) When interpreting any book of the Bible, it is important to ascertain the audience to which it was originally directed.
First, in Revelation we have clear evidence that John is writing to particular, historic, individual churches that existed in his day. Revelation 1:4 provides a common salutation: “John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come.” In verse 11 he specifically names the seven churches to whom he speaks: “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.” We know these names to be those of historical cities containing literal churches existing in the first century.
Second, we learn that John wrote to those churches in order to be understood. The first sentence of John’s prophecy has become the title of the entire work. And from that title we are clearly told that his work was to be a “revelation.” The Greek word for “revelation” is apokalupsis, which means an “opening up, uncovering.” John intended his book to be an opening up of divine truth for his original audience. He wrote to reveal, not to conceal truth.
And we must allow Scripture to interpret itself whenever possible.
Daniel describes the four beasts (Babylon, Greece, Medo-Persia, and Rome) as the beasts of the sea: And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. (Daniel 7:3) It was during the time of this fourth empire that God’s eternal kingdom was to be established (Daniel 7:18,22,27).
By the way the mark of the beast was the mark of a certain individual (Rev. 13:18) not just the Roman Empire in general. The mark of the beast was to happen right before AD 70 The first “clue” for us to examine is Revelation 13:18, which says: “Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.”
We must remember that John is writing from the isle of Patmos, where he has been imprisoned. John wrote his message in “code” lest his captors understand his reference to the emperor. Instead of openly stating who the “Beast” was, he left the original audience a clue that every Hebrew could easily discern.
In ancient times, alphabets served a two-fold purpose. Letters functioned not only as phonetic symbols, but as numerals, as well. The Arabic numeral system, which we use today, was a later development.
Throughout the ancient world, we find the practice of using the numerical value of a name, as a sort of cryptogram.
The Hebrew spelling of the name Nero Caesar was NRWN QSR (represented here by English letters). The sum of these numbers, which match each Hebrew letter, add up precisely to 666 as follows:
N = 50 R = 200 W = 6 N =50 Q = 100 S = 60 R = 200
Is this a coincidence? Or was John sending a message to his readers, which they could have calculated with relative ease? Another interesting factor to consider is what is called the “textual variant.” If you consult a Bible with marginal references you will find something quite intriguing. Regarding Revelation 13:18, your reference may say something to the effect: “Some manuscripts read 616.” The fact is that the number 666 in some ancient manuscripts is actually changed to 616, but why? Was it changed by accident or intentionally? The numbers 666 and 616 are not even similar in appearance—whether spelled out in words or written in numerals. As textual scholars agree, it must be intentional by an early copyist.
John, a Jew, used a Hebrew spelling of Nero’s name in order to arrive at the number 666 with fits (John 19:15) The second major “clue” John gives us is found in Revelation 17:9-10, which declares: “Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.”
Most New Testament scholars recognize that the seven mountains represent the famous Seven Hills of Rome. The Seven Hills of Rome are mentioned time and again by both ancient pagan and Christian writers.
The ten horns, with the crowns, are in reference to the ten empirical provinces of Rome. In Revelation 13:1 John notes that he “saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads”. Revelation 17:10 specifically notes that the seven heads represent “seven kings.” Thus, the Beast is generically portrayed as a kingdom.
Who was this “sixth king”? Flavius Josephus, the Jewish historian of that period, clearly points out that Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome, and that he was followed in succession by Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius. The sixth was none other than Nero (see Antiquities, books 18 & 19). This is also confirmed by Roman historians, Suetonius (Lives of the Twelve Caesars) and Dio Cassius (Roman History V).
In addition, John states, “the other has not yet come” (the seventh), “and when he comes, he must remain a little while.” Following Nero came Galba, who reigned less than seven months.
Now here are my new questions. (1) Were in the book of Revelation does John say his mark of the beast was to take place pass the individual who was the sixth or seventh Caesar in his day?
(2) Where is the scripture were John says his mark was not a Jewish typological picture of the Jews in his day previous reference to a “mark” found in Ezekiel 9:3-6.
(3) John tell us the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.”

Who are these seven kings buy these names today? Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome and that he was followed in succession by Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius. The sixth was none other than Nero (see Antiquities, books 18 & 19). This is also confirmed by Roman historians, Suetonius (Lives of the Twelve Caesars) and Dio Cassius (Roman History V).
In addition, John states, “the other has not yet come” (the seventh), “and when he comes, he must remain a little while.” Following Nero came Galba, who reigned less than seven months.
Just who in our day are these seven kings buy these names? If John’s source are wrong prove it don’t just say it.

 

[Mateo]

Of all the "isms" that have grown up around the word of God "preterism" is, to me, the most incomprehensible of the lot. It requires such a convoluted rational as to make a pretzel look straight by comparison.

To each his own...

 

[Hidden Manna]

THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET

(Revelation 13)



The Book of Revelation is a covenant document. It is a prophecy, like the prophecies of the Old Testament. This means that it is not concerned with making "predictions" of astonishing events as such. As prophecy, its focus is redemptive and ethical. Its concern is with the covenant. There is not a chance that the Biblical authors would have thought it important to prophesy about Cobra helicopters (which would be rendered obsolete by "Blue Thunder"), or personal computers, or chewing gum, or space shuttles. Nor would they have been interested in foretelling the future of the United States of America, the Soviet Union, or the Grand Duchy of Luxemburg. The point is not that these things are unimportant (in varying degrees), or that "spiritual" Christians should not be concerned about all areas of life; we should. But the point is that the Bible is God's revelation about His covenant with His people. It was not written to satisfy our curiosities about the Common Market or the prime rate of interest. It was written to show what God has done to save His people and glorify Himself through them.

Therefore, even when God speaks of the Roman Empire in the Book of Revelation, His purpose is not to tell us exciting bits of news about life at Nero's court. He speaks of Rome only in relation to the covenant and the history of redemption. The Roman Empire is not seen in terms of itself, but solely in terms of 1) the Land (Israel), and 2) the Church.


The Beast from the Sea

The Roman Empire is symbolized in Revelation as a ravenous, ferocious animal, untamed and under the Curse. John says its appearance was like a leopard, a bear, and a lion (Rev. 13:2)—the very animals used to describe the first three of the four great world empires in Daniel 7:1-6 (Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece; cf. Daniel's description of the same empires under a different symbol, in Dan. 2:31-45). The fourth empire, Rome, partakes of the evil, beast-like characteristics of the other empires, but it is much worse: "Behold, a fourth Beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed, and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns" (Dan. 7:7). The Beast of Revelation is clearly the Roman Empire.

This Beast, however, is not just an institution, but a person; specifically, as we shall see, the Emperor Nero. How could this symbol have referred to both the Empire and the Emperor? Because, in a sense (particularly the way the Bible looks at things), the two could be considered as one. Rome was identified with its leader; the Empire was embodied in Nero. Thus the Bible can shift back and forth between them, or consider them both together, under the same designation. And both Nero and the Empire were sunk in degrading, degenerate, bestial activities. Nero, who murdered numerous members of his own family (including his pregnant wife, whom he kicked to death); who was a homosexual, the final stage in degeneracy (Rom. 1:24-32); whose favorite aphrodisiac consisted of watching people suffer the most horrifying and disgusting tortures; who dressed up as a wild beast in order to attack and rape male and female prisoners; who used the bodies of Christians burning at the stake as the original "Roman candles" to light up his filthy garden parties; who launched the first imperial persecution of Christians at the instigation of the Jews, in order to destroy the Church; this animalistic pervert was the ruler of the most powerful empire on earth. And he set the tone for his subjects. Rome was the moral sewer of the world.

Let's consider what the Book of Revelation tells us about Nero/Rome, the Beast. First, John saw him "coming up out of the sea" (Rev. 13:1). In a visual, dramatic sense, of course, the mighty Roman Empire did seem to arise out of the sea, from the Italian peninsula across the ocean. More than this, however, there is the Biblical symbolism of the sea. At the original creation, the earth was a fluid, formless, uninhabitable mass of darkness, which the light of the Spirit "overcame" (Gen. 1:2; John 1:5). Obviously, there was no real conflict between God and His creation; in the beginning, everything was "very good." The sea is most fundamentally an image of life. But after the Fall, the picture of the raging deep is used and developed in Scripture as a symbol of the world in chaos through the rebellion of men and nations against God: "The wicked are like the tossing sea; for it cannot be quiet, and its waters toss up refuse and mud" (Isa. 57:20; cf. 17:12). Thus John is told later that "the waters which you saw…are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues" (Rev. 17:15). Out of this chaotic, rebellious mass of humanity emerged Rome, an entire empire founded on the premise of opposition to God.

Second, John saw that the Beast had "ten horns and seven heads" (Rev. 13:1), in the image of the Dragon (12:3), who gives the Beast "his power and his throne and great authority" (13:2). The ten horns (powers) of the Beast are explained in Revelation 17:12 in terms of the governors of the ten imperial provinces, while the seven heads are explained as the line of the Caesars (17:9-11): Nero is one of the "heads" (we will return to this in the following chapter).

Third, "on his heads were blasphemous names" (13:1). As we have already seen, the Caesars were gods. Each emperor was called Augustus or Sebastos, meaning One to be worshiped; they also took on the name divus (god) and even Deus and Theos (God). Many temples were erected to them throughout the Empire, especially, as we have seen, in Asia Minor. The Roman Caesars received honor belonging only to the one true God; Nero commanded absolute obedience, and even had an image of himself built, 120 feet high. For this reason Paul called Caesar "the man of sin"; he was, Paul said, "the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God" (2nd Thess. 2:3-4). John emphasizes this aspect of the Beast: "And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies…. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His Name and His tabernacle, those who tabernacle in heaven" (13:5-6). The Christians were persecuted precisely because they refused to join in this idolatrous Emperor-cult.

Fourth, John saw "one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed" (13:3). Some have pointed out that, after Nero was killed, the rumor began to spread that he would rise again and recapture the throne; in some way, they suppose, John must be referring to that myth. This, it seems to me, is a very unsatisfactory method of dealing with Scripture. John mentions the Beast's "death-wound" three times in this passage (see v. 12, 14); clearly, this is much more than a casual symbol, and we should attempt a Biblical explanation for it.

The Beast, as we saw, resembles the Dragon. The fact that he receives a head wound should make us think of the scene in the Garden of Eden, when God promised that Christ would come and crush the Dragon's head (Gen. 3:15). Daniel had prophesied that in the days of the Roman rulers, Christ's Kingdom would crush the Satanic empires and replace them, filling the earth. Accordingly, apostolic testimony proclaimed that Christ's Kingdom had come, that the devil had been defeated, disarmed, and bound, and that all nations would begin to flow toward the mountain of the Lord's House. Within the first generation, the gospel spread rapidly around the world, to all the nations; churches sprang up everywhere, and members of Caesar's own household came into the faith (Phil. 4:22). In fact, Tiberius Caesar even formally requested that the Roman Senate officially acknowledge Christ's divinity. For a time, therefore, it looked as if a coup were taking place: Christianity was in the ascendant, and soon would gain control. Satan's head had been crushed, and with it the Roman Empire had been wounded to death with the sword (Rev. 13:14) of the gospel.

But then the tables were reversed. Although the gospel had spread everywhere, so had heresy and apostasy; and under persecution by the Jews and the Roman State, great masses of Christians began falling away. The New Testament gives the definite impression that most of the churches fell apart and abandoned the faith; under Nero's persecution, the Church seemed to have been stamped out entirely. The Beast had received the head-wound, the wound unto death—yet it still lived. The reality, of course, was that Christ had defeated the Dragon and the Beast; but the implications of His victory still had to be worked out; the saints had yet to overcome, and take possession (Dan. 7:21-22; Rev. 12:11).

Fifth, "the whole Land wondered after the Beast; and they worshiped the Dragon, because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the Beast, saying, 'Who is like the Beast, and who is able to make war against him?'" (13:3-4). John is not speaking of the world following the beast; the word he uses here should be translated Land, meaning Israel. We know this because the context identifies his worshipers as those who dwell on the Land (Rev. 13:8, 12, 14)—a technical phrase used several times in Revelation to denote apostate Israel. In the Greek Old Testament (the version used by the early Church), it is a common prophetic expression for rebellious, idolatrous Israel about to be destroyed and driven from the land (Jer. 1:14; 10:18; Ezek. 7:7; 36:17; Hos. 4:1, 3; Joel 1:2, 14; 2:1; Zeph. 1:8), based on its original usage in the historical books of the Bible for rebellious, idolatrous pagans about to be destroyed and driven from the Land (Num. 32:17; 33:52, 55; Josh. 7:9; 9:24; Jud. 1:32; 2 Sam. 5:6; 1st Chron. 11:4; 22:18; Neh. 9:24). Israel had become a nation of pagans, and was about to be destroyed, exiled, and supplanted by a new nation. It is true, of course, that Nero was loved all over the Empire as the benevolent provider of welfare and entertainment. But it is Israel in particular which is condemned for Emperor-worship. Faced with a choice between Christ and Caesar, they had proclaimed: We have no king but Caesar! (John 19:15). Their reaction to Caesar's apparently victorious war against the Church (Rev. 11:7) was awe and worship. Israel sided with Caesar and the Empire against Christ and the Church. Ultimately, therefore, they were worshiping the Dragon, and for this reason Jesus Himself called their worship assemblies synagogues of Satan (Rev. 2:9; 3:9).

Sixth, the Beast was given "authority to act for forty-two months" (13:5), "to make war with the saints and to overcome them" (13:7). The period of 42 months (three-and-one-half years—a broken seven) is a symbolic figure in prophetic language, signifying a time of sadness, when the enemies of God are in power, or when judgment is being poured out (taken from the period of drought between Elijah's first appearance and the defeat of Baal on Mount Carmel). Its prophetic usage is not primarily literal, although it is interesting that Nero's persecution of the Church did in fact last a full 42 months, from the middle of November 64 to the beginning of June 68.

Seventh, John provided his readers with a positive identification of the Beast: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the Beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is 666" (13:18). There are several significant aspects of this strange number; we will examine only two of them here.

The first point is that the Old Testament has already told us about 666. It is found in the books of the Kings and the Chronicles, surely some of the most neglected books of the Bible. Interestingly, however, John takes many of his symbolic numbers from them (for one example, compare 1st Chron. 24:1-19 with Rev. 4:4). These historical writings tell us that Solomon (a Biblical type of both Christ and the Beast) received 666 talents of gold in one year, at the height of his power and glory (1st Kings 10:14; 2nd Chron. 9:13). That number marks both the high point of his reign and the beginning of his downfall; from then on, everything goes downhill into apostasy. One by one, Solomon breaks the three laws of godly kingship recorded in Deuteronomy 17:16-17: against multiplying gold (1st Kings 10:14-25), against multiplying horses (1st Kings 10: 26-29), and against multiplying wives (1st Kings 11:1-8). For the Hebrews, 666 was a fearful sign of apostasy, the mark of both a king and a State in the Dragon's image.

The second point to consider about the number 666 is this. In both Greek and Hebrew, each letter of the alphabet is also a numeral (see the table of numerals at the end of this chapter). Thus, the "number" of anyone's name could be computed by simply adding up the numerical value of its letters. Clearly, John expected that his contemporary readers were capable of using this method to discover the Beast's name—thus indicating, again, the contemporary message of Revelation; he did not expect them to figure out the name of some 20th-century official in a foreign government. At the same time, however, he tells them that it will not be as easy as they might think: it will require someone "who has understanding." For John did not give a number that could be worked out in Greek, which is what a Roman official scanning Revelation for subversive content would expect. The unexpected element in the computation was that it had to be worked out in Hebrew, a language which at least some members of the churches would know. His readers would have guessed by now that he was speaking of Nero, and those who understood Hebrew probably grasped it instantly. The numerical values of the Hebrew letters in Neron Kesar (Nero Caesar) are:

 

[Hidden Manna]

It is significant that all early Christian writers, even those who did not understand Hebrew and were therefore confused by the number 666, connected the Roman Empire, and especially Nero, with the Beast. There should be no reasonable doubt about this. John was writing to first-century Christians, warning them of things that were "shortly" to take place. They were engaged in the most crucial battle of history, against the Dragon and the evil Empire which he possessed. The purpose of the Revelation was to comfort the Church with the assurance that God was in control, so that even the awesome might of the Dragon and the Beast would not stand before the armies of Jesus Christ. The number of Man is six (Gen. 1:27, 31); Christ was wounded in His heel on the sixth day (Friday)—yet that is the day He crushed the Dragon's head. At his most powerful, John says, Nero is just a six, or a series of sixes; never a seven. His plans of world dominion will never be fulfilled, and the Church will overcome.

 

[Hidden Manna]

The Beast from the Land

Just as the Beast from the sea was in the image of the Dragon, so we see another creature in Revelation 13 who is in the image of the Beast. John saw this one "coming up out of the Land" (13:11), arising from within Israel itself. In Revelation 19:20, we are told the identity of this Land Beast: he is "the False Prophet." As such, he represents what Jesus had foretold would take place in Israel's last days: "Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many…. Many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many" (Matt. 24:5, 11). The rise of the false prophets paralleled that of the antichrists; but whereas the antichrists had apostatized into Judaism from within the Church, the false prophets were Jewish religious leaders who sought to seduce Christians from the outside.

It is important to remember that Judaism is not Old Testament religion, but rather a rejection of the Biblical faith altogether in favor of the Pharisaical, Talmudic heresy. Like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Unification Church, and other cults, it claims to be based on the Bible; but its actual authority comes from the traditions of men. Jesus was quite clear: Judaism denies Christ because it denies Moses. Orthodox Christianity alone is the true continuation and fulfillment of Old Testament religion (see Matt. 5:17-20; 15:1-9; Mark 7:1-13; Luke 16:29-31; John 5:45-47; 8:42-47).

The Jewish false prophets had the appearance of a lamb (Rev. 13:11), as Jesus had warned (Matt. 7:15); but they "spoke as a Dragon" (Rev. 13:11). How does the Dragon speak? He uses deceptive, subtle, seductive speech to draw God's people away from the faith and into a trap (Gen. 3:1-6, 13; 2nd Cor. 11:3; Rev. 12:9); furthermore, he is a liar, a slanderer, and a blasphemer (John 8:44; Rev. 12:10). The Book of Acts records numerous examples of Draconian false witness by the Jews against Christians, a major problem for the early Church (Acts 6:9-15; 13:10; 14:2-5; 17:5-8; 18:6, 12-13; 19:9; 21:27-36; 24:1-9; 25:2-3, 7).

The Jewish leaders, symbolized by this Beast from the Land, joined forces with the Beast of Rome in an attempt to destroy the Church (Acts 4:24-28; 12:1-3; 13:8; 14:5; 17:5-8; 18:12-13; 21:11; 24:1-9; 25:2-3, 9, 24). They led Israel in worship of the Emperor (Rev. 13:12); and, in the service of apostasy, the false prophets even performed miracles (Rev. 13:13-15). Jesus had warned that "false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, the very elect" (Matt. 24:24). Again, Acts records instances of miracle-working Jewish false prophets, including the fact that, as Jesus had foretold (Matt. 7:22-23), some of them even used His name in their incantations (Acts 13:6-11; 19:13-16).

The Jewish leaders enforced submission to the Emperor. Indeed, their charge against Christ Himself was that He was a rival to the all-embracing authority of Caesar (John 19:12-15). Similarly, they organized economic boycotts against those who refused to submit to Caesar as Lord, going so far as to put them to death (Rev. 13:15-17). The Book of Acts is studded with incidents of organized Jewish persecution of the Church (Acts 4:1-3, 15-18; 5:17-18, 27-33, 40; 7:51-60; 9:23, 29; 13:45-50; 14:2-5; 17:5-8, 13; 18:17; 20:3; 22:22-23; 23:12, 20-21; 24:27; 26:21; 28:17-29; cf. 1st Thess. 2:14-16).

The New Testament gives abundant testimony of this fact. The Jewish hierarchy was involved in a massive, organized attempt to destroy the Church by both deceit and persecution. In pursuit of this diabolical goal, they united in a conspiracy with the Roman government against Christianity. Some of them were able to perform miracles in the service of Satan. And this is exactly what is told us of the Beast from the Land. The False Prophet of Revelation was none other than the leadership of apostate Israel, who rejected Christ and worshiped the Beast.

There is an interesting reversal of imagery in the text. The Book of Job has prepared us for John's prophecy, for it too tells us of a Land Beast (Behemoth, Job 40:15-24) and a Sea Beast (Leviathan, Job 41:1-34). But John's visions expand on Job's descriptions of these dinosaurs, and the order of their appearance is reversed. First we see Satan as the Dragon, the true Leviathan (Rev. 12); then comes the Sea Beast, who is in the Dragon's image (Rev. 13:1); finally, trailing behind and serving them, comes the Land Beast, in the image of the Sea Beast. By thus showing the Beasts appearing in reverse order, John underscores his point: Israel, which was to have been a kingdom of priests to the nations of the world, has surrendered its position of priority to Leviathan. Instead of placing a godly imprint upon every culture and society, Israel has been remade into the image of the pagan, antichristian State. Abraham's children have become the seed of the Dragon (John 8:37-44).

During three years of ministry in Ephesus, the Apostle Paul continually suffered persecution because of "the plots of the Jews" (Acts 20:19); in describing his conflicts with them, he called them "wild beasts" (1st Cor. 15:32). The Jewish Beast was the early Church's most deceptive and dangerous enemy, and Paul strenuously warned the Church about these Judaistic seducers:




For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach, for the sake of sordid gain. One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true. For this cause reprove them severely that they may be sound in the faith, not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient, and worthless for any good deed (***. 1:10-16).

 

[Hidden Manna]

Of all the "isms" that have grown up around the word of God "preterism" is, to me, the most incomprehensible of the lot. It requires such a convoluted rational as to make a pretzel look straight by comparison.

To each his own...

I see that creedalist futurism is by far the most dangerous and like wise it requires such a convoluted rational as to make a pretzel look straight by comparison.


Futurist seem be believe all preterist are nuts. Sometimes we have to show them we are not.
Edwards was highly influential in the Baptist life of America. He was the first historian of Baptists in America. Albert Henry Newman’s in his book (A History of the Baptist Church in the United States 1894). said Morgan Edwards certainly did bring “strange things” to the Baptist people in America in 1788.
Edwards believed that the “lake of fire brimstone was “on the moon”! Edwards was a literalist so far as the New Testament was concerned, but not as much as with the Old Testament. Edwards believed that Abraham looked for a real literal city. He acknowledged the Bible was the word of God, while not denying the textual difficulties.
Falwell told about 1,500 people at a conference in Kingsport, Tenn., on a Thursday that he believes the second coming of Christ would be within a years. That was 8 years ago.
And don’t forget the Y2K thing.
Jerry Falwell also distributed a packet on “The Y2K Time Bomb,” including a video, “A Christian’s Guide to the Millennium Bug,” advising people to be prepared for disaster. “Y2K is God’s instrument to shake this nation, to humble this nation,” Falwell said. “He may be preparing to confound our language, to jam our communications, scatter our efforts, and judge us for our sin and rebellion for going against his Lordship.”
Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, who have sold more than 10 million copies of their Left Behind series of books about the Apocalypse, prophesied global upheaval on Jan. 1, 2000. The Y2K bug could trigger “financial meltdown,” warned LaHaye, “making it possible for the Antichrist to dominate the world.”
From 1998-99, we had plenty of our Dispensational friends searching their Bibles for evidence of the “rapture” and the end of all things as the Year 2000 dawned. Many books, tapes, and videos were written, produced, recorded, and bought by millions of people, many of whom were convinced the end was at hand. The prophecy know-it-alls were wrong again.
Since September 11th, 2001, even more people are wondering about the end of all things, and Tim LaHaye’s popular “Left Behind” book series (the first volume of which was originally published in 1995) has profited immensely from both the Y2K hysteria and now from the awful terrorist attack of 9-11-01.
Indeed LaHaye and Jenkins’ book series have now sold over 35 million copies. That doesn’t include the motion picture adaptation of the Left Behind novel or the many other spin-offs, such as “Left Behind for kids,” the “Left Behind” board game, CD’s, DVD’s, etc.
Fear mongering about the end of the world and the return of Christ have made millions of dollars for men like LaHaye, Lindsey, Van Impe, Hagee, and Hunt, to name only a few.
But now that the evidence of the meltdown and world domination by an Antichrist did not happen what do Christian still do? Mack these men richer by spending millions of dollars on their now carton books “Left Behind” series.
Back in the early 1970’s, prophecy author Hal Lindsey predicted the “Return of Christ” would occur in 1988, Hal Lindsey was wrong, but that has not stopped him from writing many more prophecy books and it has not stopped Christians and non-Christians from buying his books.
“Who is the antichrist?” is a question that rings through out the religious communities of today. There are all kinds of theories being taught concerning the personality, actions, and identity of this antichrist. We have heard it being proclaimed that the antichrist was Hitler, Stalin, Nikita Khrushchev, Moammar Kadhafi, Saddam Hussein, and the list goes on and on. Of course, these have proven to be wrong. Is it finally time for us to go back and find out what the Bible teaches? The answer is so simple and so easy but, because of our religious training, it is oh so hard to accept.
Those Christians who believe that we are drawing close to the last days are continually trying to identify both the beast and the antichrist. This game of “find the beast and identify the antichrist” has become the adult Christians’ version of the child’s game of pin the tail on the donkey. Every few years, the participants place blindfolds over their eyes, turn around six times, and march toward the wall.
Sometimes they march out the door and over a cliff, as was the case with Edgar C. Whisenant, whose best-selling two-part book announced in the summer of 1988 that Jesus would surely appear to rapture His church during Rosh Hashanah week in mid-September. Half the book was called On Borrowed Time. The other was more aptly titled, 88 Reasons why the Rapture is in 1988. I can think of one key argument why his book’s thesis was incorrect: no rapture so far, and it is now February, 1989. So much for all 88 arguments. The anti-Christian world got another great laugh at the expense of millions of fundamentalists who had bought and read his two-part book. The story of Mr. Whisenant’s book was front-page news briefly around the U.S. But Mr. Whisenant is now ancient history, one more forgotten laughingstock who brought reproach to the church of Jesus Christ while he piled up his press clippings.
This is the whole problem. The victims self-consciously forget the last self-proclaimed expert in Bible prophecy whose predictions did not come to pass. They never learn to recognize the next false prophet because they refuse to admit to themselves that they had been * censored* censored* censored* censored* censored* censoreded by the last one. Thus, this * censored* censored* censored* censored* censored* censored’s game has been going on throughout the twentieth century, generation after generation,
God is not the author of confusion. (1 Corinthians 14:33) This is a foundational premise upon which all doctrine is established. It is not the character or the nature of God to have included in His Word any content that would create confusion, divisiveness, and/or ambivalence among the Church.
Nothing discredits the presentation and defense of the Christian faith and makes it more of a laughing stock in the eyes of the non-Christian world than the barrage of failed predictions, imminence speculations, and scare tactics of sincere Christians bound by our current irresponsible doctrine of the “end-times.”

 

[Mateo]

Hidden Manna,

A discussion about the subject at hand would be nice. Massive multiple cut and paste jobs addressing no one in particular are a particularly ineffective tool with which to communicate or convince another.

 

[Mateo]

Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that this isn't the first time you have put this out there "just for the record" and how many times will be sufficient for you to have finally and fully discharged your apparent responsibility to reproduce these massive tomes every time what you perceive as the dread demon of "futurism" rears it's evil head?

 

[Mateo]

Well you see Mateo not ever one in the world will read all the old postings. How many times has the futuristic demon shoved down the troats of gulable people the false hopes that futurism has brung into the Churches in the last 200 years. Give Preterism a chance because it is the truth the will stand for the next 200 years and beyond.

I'm kind of curious what someone who believes that biblical prophecy is past relies on to substanciate their assertions about what the next 200 years hold in store for us...


... and by the way, did you write the stuff that you are reproducing in your posts?

 

[CrownCaster]

Of all the "isms" that have grown up around the word of God "preterism" is, to me, the most incomprehensible of the lot. It requires such a convoluted rational as to make a pretzel look straight by comparison.

To each his own...

Amen!

 

[CrownCaster]

Hidden Manna,

A discussion about the subject at hand would be nice. Massive multiple cut and paste jobs addressing no one in particular are a particularly ineffective tool with which to communicate or convince another.

Every thread he is involved in turns into a proselytizing mission against Christians.

Mateo, thanks for the information. This is very interesting and definately something we need to keep our eye one.

There are many things going on right now that are designed, IMO, to make it easier when the whole thing comes full circle, for the people to just blend it right into their lives. There are companies right now placing chips in people. At present time they are figuring out the quirks of making these chips have tracking devices and be small enough to fit at the same time. It is really good to know the Word at a time like this.

Great post. Thanks.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Every thread he is involved in turns into a proselytizing mission against Christians.

Mateo, thanks for the information. This is very interesting and definately something we need to keep our eye one.

Crowncaster what makes you think I'm against Christians when I we are all in this thing together as christians. I would appreicate it if you would think things out before speading lies.

I'm on a proselytizing mission to help my Christian brothers and sister to understand the truth in the full preterist view that took me 30 years to find out. I am trying to share all of you futurist which I was for 30 years wasted time in have false hope in what devised during the second century after the fact the the day of the Lord had already come as a thief in the night. False expections in a physical return because Jesus appeared a second time spiritually, which we have to take by faith because there are no written records of any physical manifestion of Jesus in 70 AD. However all the other signs mentioned in Luke 21 and Matt. 24 did appear. Sorry if I offend you but that one you will have to take up with God. I'm only doing what He has called me to do and that is to take the Preterist view to the world, Christians first, so that when the people in the world hear it Christian will have half a chance to know what they are talking about when confronted with the issues. Otherwise we will look even more silly then Jack Van Impe telling everyone that the end is just around the corner again for the umteenth time. face it this "end-time socalled Prophet are making us all look real bad.

 

[unbound]

The scary part about Preterism is, if it is wrong, the warning signs which are in the bible will go unheeded.

To adress the OP, I would say the mark will be a form of control, as would be the chip implant. It will be worldwide, which means that eventually a unified government will come forth, then this "beast" will turn its power over to the anti-christ. So the man of perdition will be handed over a ready-made one world government.

We are seeing resembl;ances of this already, and the time is quickly approaching where those who are going to usher it in will stand on one side, and those who know what is happening will stand on the other.

Problem with the unification process is the US. We have the highest percentage of the populace who still love thier freedom, although I think some of us are losing the real sense of freedom in the name of "safety". Slowly change in our way of thinking is coming about, in school, our kids are being ingrained with the thought that identification and tracking is the norm. Being required to produce "papers" is something that will slowly over time be effected.

The National ID card is a step in this direction. The government will only use this as a tool for monitoring and controlling our lives. Dont let them fool you, it has nothing to do with "safety". If they were concerned with safety, we wouldnt have so mant illegal aliens coming across the border in open daylight.

Next step is the implant, and with just a little more improvement, will be used as a tracking device for every human. It will also include a personal number which will be issued at birth, along with biometric and personal information. Also you will need it to purchase goods. ( food).

The system will enter in in the name of safety and peace, but will end in destruction and chaos.

 

[CrownCaster]

Crowncaster what makes you think I'm against Christians when I we are all in this thing together as christians. I would appreicate it if you would think things out before speading lies.

I'm on a proselytizing mission to help my Christian brothers and sister to understand the truth in the full preterist view that took me 30 years to find out. I am trying to share all of you futurist which I was for 30 years wasted time in have false hope in what devised during the second century after the fact the the day of the Lord had already come as a thief in the night. False expections in a physical return because Jesus appeared a second time spiritually, which we have to take by faith because there are no written records of any physical manifestion of Jesus in 70 AD. However all the other signs mentioned in Luke 21 and Matt. 24 did appear. Sorry if I offend you but that one you will have to take up with God. I'm only doing what He has called me to do and that is to take the Preterist view to the world, Christians first, so that when the people in the world hear it Christian will have half a chance to know what they are talking about when confronted with the issues. Otherwise we will look even more silly then Jack Van Impe telling everyone that the end is just around the corner again for the umteenth time. face it this "end-time socalled Prophet are making us all look real bad.

See what I mean?

 

[Hidden Manna]

See what I mean?

So you still mean that you think I'm against Christians (being one myself) as if I detest my own spiritual brother and sister who belong to Jesus whom He died for. You are so sadly mistaken. You only wished it were the truth so your futuristic view could thrive a few more years until your false expections would come to passed in order for you to appear right and all your time fighting preterism would not be wasted time. I can truely see what you mean.

 

[Hidden Manna]

And again.

 

[gort]

The scary part about Preterism is, if it is wrong, the warning signs which are in the bible will go unheeded.

To adress the OP, I would say the mark will be a form of control, as would be the chip implant. It will be worldwide, which means that eventually a unified government will come forth, then this "beast" will turn its power over to the anti-christ. So the man of perdition will be handed over a ready-made one world government.

We are seeing resembl;ances of this already, and the time is quickly approaching where those who are going to usher it in will stand on one side, and those who know what is happening will stand on the other.

Problem with the unification process is the US. We have the highest percentage of the populace who still love thier freedom, although I think some of us are losing the real sense of freedom in the name of "safety". Slowly change in our way of thinking is coming about, in school, our kids are being ingrained with the thought that identification and tracking is the norm. Being required to produce "papers" is something that will slowly over time be effected.

The National ID card is a step in this direction. The government will only use this as a tool for monitoring and controlling our lives. Dont let them fool you, it has nothing to do with "safety". If they were concerned with safety, we wouldnt have so mant illegal aliens coming across the border in open daylight.

Next step is the implant, and with just a little more improvement, will be used as a tracking device for every human. It will also include a personal number which will be issued at birth, along with biometric and personal information. Also you will need it to purchase goods. ( food).

The system will enter in in the name of safety and peace, but will end in destruction and chaos.

Hi,

Don't you think though, that the Christian will see this (when it happens) for what it really is?

I really don't do much study of book of Revelation yet, but there seems to me that the number of the beast should be quite pronounced. Todays credit cards and even paper money and coins certainly can't be considered as "the number".

btw, and not to veer off the thread, but how many of you all have; when you first started reading the bible, sorta skipped to the ending and read about the beast and the number (you know, the creepy parts)?

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