The mark of the beast

[Stryder06]

It's seem like a big joke to most people, that sabbathkeeping is commanded or an attached issue relating to what is called the truth about Jesus Christ.

Just because they're laughing it doesn't mean they should be.

The tranfiguration teaches that the Father said we should listen to Jesus Christ.

Nothing to do with anything. Christ said He came to teach what He was told to teach by the Father. So unless you can show the Father telling Jesus to 86 His law, you've got a problem.

Anyone who reads the Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, have a reenforced account of what Jesus taught to His disciples according to what is written therein.
It should be your burden to prove that Jesus commanded sabbath observance. We're sure that Jesus commanded communion in remembrance of His body and blood. EGW is who commands sabbath worship. The scriptures proves that Sabbath was a sign between God and the children of Israel only.

Again, the law was to be obeyed forever. God told Israel to bind it to their hands and to put it between their eyes; to teach it to their children as they rose up and as they lied down. Christ didn't need to remind them of what the commandments said. He needed to show them how to properly keep them, and He did that by living them out. That included how to truly keep the sabbath.

And the "it was only for Israel" response is simply an excuse. Israel and Judah were the only nations God promised to make the new covenant with, yet you, as a Gentile, lay hold of that promise. In fact, what promise in the bible did God ever make with a gentile nation? At what point did God say it wasn't necessary for Gentiles to become part of Israel to receive the blessings God promised to the seed of Abraham?

 

[Cribstyl]

What makes you think that the truth about Jesus and the sabbath are mutually exclusive? What makes you think that the gospel doesn't involve obedience to the commandments of God? Saying "Jesus gave us His commandments" is a prime example of the line of logic that places Christ against the Father, as if one set of laws trumps the other.



This isn't a lie. And it's not about worshiping when you choose to. It's about obeying what God said to do.

Is it truth that worship can only happen on the Sabbath? Sabbath is primarily a 24hr period resting from work. that's not always what worshipping is about is it?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Is it truth that worship can only happen on the Sabbath? Sabbath is primarily a 24hr period resting from work. that's not always what worshipping is about is it?

Worshipping is being obedient....

 

[Stryder06]

Is it truth that worship can only happen on the Sabbath? Sabbath is primarily a 24hr period resting from work. that's not always what worshipping is about is it?

Worship can happen every day of the week. That's why trying to make this an issue about worship is a strawman. It's about obedience. God only asks for one day to be kept holy. Yet that day is trampled upon due to the traditions of men. How can worship be accepted by God from a people who deliberately desecrate one of His commandments?

How can God be pleased by a people who exalt their traditions above God's holy law and think to do what God never did?

 

[Cribstyl]

I most certainly can be serious. The arguments around the sabbath involve the truth in regards to God's commandments does it not?

You're reading EGW writings into the bible and therefore every issue is connected to the sabbath. Worship to you is all about sabbathkeeping. Scriptures proves that worship and sabbaths are distinguished. I'm not telling you, that sabbath is not acceptable to God. You're telling me, that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. (and your church uses media to broadcasting on Sunday mornings)

You try to limit sabbath keeping to an issue of worship, when it's more than that.

According to scriptures; it is God who made the Sabbath a sign of a covenant, to show Himself as the creator an God of the Children of Israel. That's what makes it a form of worship for Jews.

God desires obedience from His people. If He want's them to keep the sabbath, but they aren't and are teaching that they don't have to, then is God pleased with their worship?

Your wires may be crossed about, what are sacrifices and what God does wants us to obey. Isa 1:13

 

[Cribstyl]

Worship can happen every day of the week.

That's exactly what most Protestants believe.

That's why trying to make this an issue about worship is a strawman. It's about obedience. God only asks for one day to be kept holy. Yet that day is trampled upon due to the traditions of men. How can worship be accepted by God from a people who deliberately desecrate one of His commandments?

Sunday churches have the understanding that worship is not limitted to one day. To Sunday churches this is a strawman argument.


How can SDA condemn Sunday worship and then say that it can be everyday? Protestants dont agree with SDA or false claim of the RCC that Sunday was a Pope instituted change of the sabbath.
The record show that Jews continued to keep the Sabbath, and the early church kept both. There are writings that sabbath was called Judiazing....( later discouraged)

How can God be pleased by a people who exalt their traditions above God's holy law and think to do what God never did?

False questions and argument were the reason Eve was decieved.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

How can SDA condemn Sunday worship and then say that it can be everyday?

Obedience Crib.... obeying God is keeping the seventh day Holy because God sanctified it and never rescinded that sanctification. We can worship God everyday because of our obedience... let me say it again, worshipping God is by obeying Him. We worship and glorify Him when we obey any of the Commandments, not just the 4th.

What caused Lucifer to stop worshipping God? He would not obey Him and wanted to do things his way.

 

[Stryder06]

You're reading EGW writings into the bible and therefore every issue is connected to the sabbath. Worship to you is all about sabbathkeeping. Scriptures proves that worship and sabbaths are distinguished. I'm not telling you, that sabbath is not acceptable to God. You're telling me, that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. (and your church uses media to broadcasting on Sunday mornings)

I'm not reading EGW into the bible, and no matter how loud you blow that horn, it won't make it true
And worship to me isn't about sabbath keeping. Those are two separate issues. I'm talking about obedience. And I don't see why you keep bringing up our church broadcasting on sunday. We broadcast every day of the week.

According to scriptures; it is God who made the Sabbath a sign of a covenant, to show Himself as the creator an God of the Children of Israel. That's what makes it a form of worship for Jews.

According to the scriptures, the new covenant was between God and the house of Israel and Judah. Trying to label the sabbath as strictly for the Jews is a poor attempt to justify not keeping it. What promises in the bible did God make to the gentiles? When did God promise to be a God to them and under what circumstances? God has always called to the gentile people to come out from where they were, and to join themselves to Him.

Your wires may be crossed about, what are sacrifices and what God does wants us to obey. Isa 1:13

My wires aren't crossed at all. God want's true worship. Isa 1:13 actually goes to the heart of the matter; given the way the people had slipped into apostasy and thought that the Lord was still pleased with their Worship, God plainly stated that He wasn't.

 

[Stryder06]

That's exactly what most Protestants believe.

That's because worship can happen any day. However worship does not make a day holy.

Sunday churches have the understanding that worship is not limitted to one day. To Sunday churches this is a strawman argument.

Obedience is a strawman argument? No."It being for the Jews" is a strawman argument. Obedience however is the very heart of the issue. What will you do, uphold the law of God or the tradition of man? That is the issue.

How can SDA condemn Sunday worship and then say that it can be everyday? Protestants dont agree with SDA or false claim of the RCC that Sunday was a Pope instituted change of the sabbath.
The record show that Jews continued to keep the Sabbath, and the early church kept both. There are writings that sabbath was called Judiazing....( later discouraged)

It's not a false claim that the RCC changed the official day of worship to Sunday whilst discouraging Sabbath keeping. The laodicean council declared "anathema" to those who kept the sabbath. Why would they, the RCC, do that Crib? And yes, there are writings that showed the early church keeping both days, but sunday wasn't a weekly day to remember. It was more of an annual holiday. Like it or not, there is more historical support showing the church of Rome making Sunday, the day, then anything you can try to paste together from the bible.

False questions and argument were the reason Eve was decieved.

Leaning on her own reasoning while discarding the clear word of God was what lead Eve to be deceived, and not receiving immediate judgment is what gave her cause to believe it was ok, and thus lead her to go deceive her husband.

 

[Cribstyl]

That's because worship can happen any day. However worship does not make a day holy.

Yeah, we're talking about worship can happen any day, but you're adding issues (holy day) to qualify Saturday as the day to worship.

Obedience is a strawman argument? No."It being for the Jews" is a strawman argument. Obedience however is the very heart of the issue. What will you do, uphold the law of God or the tradition of man? That is the issue.

We were talking about 'every day worship' being a strawman not about 'obedience' being a strawman....

You're good at twisting the issues to say whatever sounds clever.

If you want to talk about obedience we need to establish what the New Covenant establishes we should obey. If it was obedience to the law, Paul would contradict himself by saying we're save by faith apart from the law. Help us to see where the law is ever the subject of 'obedience' in the NT.. KJV(12)

It's not a false claim that the RCC changed the official day of worship to Sunday whilst discouraging Sabbath keeping. The laodicean council declared "anathema" to those who kept the sabbath. Why would they, the RCC, do that Crib? And yes, there are writings that showed the early church keeping both days, but sunday wasn't a weekly day to remember. It was more of an annual holiday. Like it or not, there is more historical support showing the church of Rome making Sunday, the day, then anything you can try to paste together from the bible.

It is a claim, but it's has always been a false claim just as; having headship and authority passed down from Peter. A claim that SDA see as false.

Leaning on her own reasoning while discarding the clear word of God was what lead Eve to be deceived, and not receiving immediate judgment is what gave her cause to believe it was ok, and thus lead her to go deceive her husband.

For crying out loud, let's stick to applying the bible to understanding.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Here Crib, I C&P this from above incase you missed it...

Obedience Crib.... obeying God is keeping the seventh day Holy because God sanctified it and never rescinded that sanctification. We can worship God everyday because of our obedience... let me say it again, worshipping God is by obeying Him. We worship and glorify Him when we obey any of the Commandments, not just the 4th.

What caused Lucifer to stop worshipping God? He would not obey Him and wanted to do things his way.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

And why hasn't anyone addressed the statement by Stryder that the new covenant was made with Israel first and then the gentiles were grafted in? Just like how the gentiles were brought in under the old covenant...

 

[Stryder06]

And why hasn't anyone addressed the statement by Stryder that the new covenant was made with Israel first and then the gentiles were grafted in? Just like how the gentiles were brought in under the old covenant...

Because they'd have to admit they're part of Israel, and then the "The sabbath was given to the Jews" argument wouldn't hold weight anymore

 

[Stryder06]

Yeah, we're talking about worship can happen any day, but you're adding issues (holy day) to qualify Saturday as the day to worship.

I'm not adding issues. That is the issue. If the sabbath is no longer holy then you by all rights can do what you want.

We were talking about 'every day worship' being a strawman not about 'obedience' being a strawman....

Looks like I've gotten confused here, because I don't recall us making the "every day worship" argument a strawman .

You're good at twisting the issues to say whatever sounds clever.

Not twisting anything Crib. I just prefer getting to the heart of the matter. Not big on beating around the bush.

If you want to talk about obedience we need to establish what the New Covenant establishes we should obey. If it was obedience to the law, Paul would contradict himself by saying we're save by faith apart from the law. Help us to see where the law is ever the subject of 'obedience' in the NT.. KJV(12)

Obedience is the foundation for your relationship with God. It is the basis for any covenant. The new covenant says God will put His law on our hearts. Period. I'm so sick and tired of watching folk try to say that Christ had laws separate from His Father. Paul never speaks about not keeping the law. He speaks about not gaining salvation by works of the law.

It is a claim, but it's has always been a false claim just as; having headship and authority passed down from Peter. A claim that SDA see as false.

Sorry. It isn't false. It might be uncomfortable, but it is what it is. You have no grounds for keeping Sunday as a day of worship outside of the Catholic church.

For crying out loud, let's stick to applying the bible to understanding.

You brought up Eve. Not me. Not my fault it works against you.

 

[Cribstyl]

Because they'd have to admit they're part of Israel, and then the "The sabbath was given to the Jews" argument wouldn't hold weight anymore

Did God have to make a covenant with the Gentiles? NO!!! God's promise that included all nations of the world was made to Abraham, not the Gentiles. When your question is based on faulty reasoning, only people who agree with you will assume you've made a point.

 

[Cribstyl]

And why hasn't anyone addressed the statement by Stryder that the new covenant was made with Israel first and then the gentiles were grafted in? Just like how the gentiles were brought in under the old covenant...

Israel is not the root, they are the broken off branch. The Gentiles are a branch grafted into the root, not grated into the broken of branch.
Are you adopted? Who is your daddy? Is it God or is it Israel?
Show scriptures that the Gentiles were brought in under the Old Covenant. I'll be waiting for a shred of evidence.

 

[Cribstyl]

Here Crib, I C&P this from above incase you missed it...

Thank you for helping me to study the bible more. I spent hours looking at everything in NT scriptures that Christian are commanded to obey, "obedience", follow, keep, continue, do.

Obedience to the law is not one of those things. Fact is, Jesus and His disciple were martyred because what they taught was not written in the law.
Acts 5:28-42 Teaches us what was preached and taught by Christ apostles and what we need to obey... (some key texts are)

Act 5:29Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Act 5:32And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Act 5:42And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I spent hours looking at everything in NT scriptures that Christian are commanded to obey, "obedience", follow, keep, continue, do.

Obedience to the law is not one of those things.

I feel sorry for you Crib and will pray the Holy Spirit can reach you...

Btw, I reported you for your derogatory comments towards our faith... if the mods didn't feel like you were in violation of the basic rules of conduct here, you wouldn't have been censored. It is your own words that condemn you Crib, I just made the right people aware of them.

 

[Cribstyl]

I feel sorry for you Crib and will pray the Holy Spirit can reach you...

Let try maturity, shall we? Why are you posting a lame response to the issue that you raised about obedience?

Btw, I reported you for your derogatory comments towards our faith... if the mods didn't feel like you were in violation of the basic rules of conduct here, you wouldn't have been censored. It is your own words that condemn you Crib, I just made the right people aware of them.

Let try maturity ECR. Mods are people like you and me, they can get conned into using authority. If the baby keeps crying, they sometimes give in to it's demands. By the grace of God, I'm still here.


The issue at hand is what the NT commands us to obey. Will you post scriptures to make a case or not?

 

[Stryder06]

Did God have to make a covenant with the Gentiles? NO!!! God's promise that included all nations of the world was made to Abraham, not the Gentiles. When your question is based on faulty reasoning, only people who agree with you will assume you've made a point.

Please Crib. Stop it. The new covenant is stated to be specifically between God and Israel. God didn't make an old covenant with the gentiles to need to make a new one. There is no faulty reasoning here.