The Mariana Trench

[AV1611VET]

According to Wikipedia, the Mariana Trench reaches a maximum depth of 6.78 miles.

It reaches a maximum depth of about 10,924 meters at the Challenger Deep, a small slot-shaped valley in its floor, at its southern end. (35,840 feet; 6.78 miles).

If you accept this as factual, without going there and measuring it yourself --- even if everyone on earth goes there and measures it (except you) and comes back with the same figure --- then I contend that you're taking it on faith that the Mariana Trench has a maximum depth of 6.78 miles.

Faith in the written documentation and/or eyewitness testimony and/or anecdotal testimony --- either way --- it's still faith.

And I don't care if you're a taxi driver, a chef, a ballerina, or an oceanographer looking at computer printouts and sonar graphs; if you haven't gone there yourself, then you're [correctly] accepting the written documentation.

This is as it should be --- and it's called 'walking by faith'.

 

[Washington]

and it's called 'walking by faith'.

"Walking" by faith? "W A L K I N G" by faith? Just who calls it that (besides yourself, that is)?

Normally we say something like, "Accepted on good authority."

 

[AV1611VET]

"Walking" by faith? "W A L K I N G" by faith? Just who calls it that (besides yourself, that is)?

It's a Bible thing.

 

[Hespera]

"Walking" by faith? "W A L K I N G" by faith? Just who calls it that (besides yourself, that is)?

Normally we say something like, "Accepted on good authority."

It is like saying "used OF god" People imagine that it imparts special meaning. It doesnt of course, but then they get to say "oh you cant understand because....". Its just obscurantism.

The there is the word "faith' that seems to have any meaning people want to put to it.

 

[Freodin]

According to Wikipedia, the Mariana Trench reaches a maximum depth of 6.78 miles.If you accept this as factual, without going there and measuring it yourself --- even if everyone on earth goes there and measures it (except you) and comes back with the same figure --- then I contend that you're taking it on faith that the Mariana Trench has a maximum depth of 6.78 miles.

Faith in the written documentation and/or eyewitness testimony and/or anecdotal testimony --- either way --- it's still faith.

And I don't care if you're a taxi driver, a chef, a ballerina, or an oceanographer looking at computer printouts and sonar graphs; if you haven't gone there yourself, then you're [correctly] accepting the written documentation.

This is as it should be --- and it's called 'walking by faith'.

No. There is a little difference in these two "faiths" that you love to ignore.

You CAN verify this "Mariana trench" kind of faith... you cannot do that for the religious variant.

 

[AV1611VET]

You CAN verify this "Mariana trench" kind of faith...

But if you can, and you don't, then you're choosing to walk by faith - not sight.

I would venture to say that most of the scientists who have enough capital to do so --- don't.

Why? Because it would be a waste of money.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

According to Wikipedia, the Mariana Trench reaches a maximum depth of 6.78 miles.If you accept this as factual, without going there and measuring it yourself --- even if everyone on earth goes there and measures it (except you) and comes back with the same figure --- then I contend that you're taking it on faith that the Mariana Trench has a maximum depth of 6.78 miles.

Faith in the written documentation and/or eyewitness testimony and/or anecdotal testimony --- either way --- it's still faith.

And I don't care if you're a taxi driver, a chef, a ballerina, or an oceanographer looking at computer printouts and sonar graphs; if you haven't gone there yourself, then you're [correctly] accepting the written documentation.

This is as it should be --- and it's called 'walking by faith'.

Seriously AV, your desperation is pathetic.

 

[plindboe]

According to Wikipedia, the Mariana Trench reaches a maximum depth of 6.78 miles.If you accept this as factual, without going there and measuring it yourself --- even if everyone on earth goes there and measures it (except you) and comes back with the same figure --- then I contend that you're taking it on faith that the Mariana Trench has a maximum depth of 6.78 miles.

Faith in the written documentation and/or eyewitness testimony and/or anecdotal testimony --- either way --- it's still faith.

And I don't care if you're a taxi driver, a chef, a ballerina, or an oceanographer looking at computer printouts and sonar graphs; if you haven't gone there yourself, then you're [correctly] accepting the written documentation.

This is as it should be --- and it's called 'walking by faith'.

I have an evidence based belief (i.e. not faith) that science is a reliable method for determining truth. If there's a scientific consensus concerning something, it's therefore reasonable to accept it as fact. On top of that, I'm never even 100% sure, as christians often claim to be about their religious ideas. Also, regarding certain facts, like the depth of the Mariana Trench, I don't have any emotional attachment (i.e. couldn't care either way). Let's recap:

1.Evidence based
2.No absolute certainty
3.No emotional attachment

I think this is about as far from religious faith as one can get.

Peter

 

[Hespera]

But if you can, and you don't, then you're choosing to walk by faith - not sight.

I would venture to say that most of the scientists who have enough capital to do so --- don't.

Why? Because it would be a waste of money.

Ok! Well, if you are so sure that this is faith, then, why does anyone bother to go to church?

The Bible teaches that the reward of faith (what faith accomplishes) is eternal life.

If thats all there is to it, then all ya gotta do is have "faith" that flipping a switch will turn the light on. Whoopee.

 

[AV1611VET]

I have an evidence based belief (i.e. not faith) that science is a reliable method for determining truth.

You've found the truth?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

You've found the truth?

Yes, and it has set us FREE!

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok! Well, if you are so sure that this is faith, then, why does anyone bother to go to church?

Chuck Swindoll uses the word WIFE* as an acronym to give four reasons we go to church:

1. To worship the Lord.
2. To receive instruction in righteousness.
3. To fellowship with like believers.
4. To express our faith in song and other means.

* The Church is known as the Bride of Christ.

 

[Hespera]

You've found the truth?

Is that with a capital, or lower case "T"?

The phrase “the Truth” is used in Scripture as a summary of the Godly life; for truth telling, and being truthful with oneself and God, is the epitome of the life which God intends.

“The Truth” refers not so much to intellectual purity of understanding as to a righteous way of life.



Its just like with faith; if you say "us guys" "walk by faith", then you are saying we gets eternal life just for having faith that the light bulb will work.

If you say that an accurate measurement of the depth of the ocean is the Truth, why then, we all has a righteous way of life! Cool!

 

[Hespera]

Chuck Swindoll uses the word WIFE* as an acronym to give four reasons we go to church:

1. To worship the Lord.
2. To receive instruction in righteousness.
3. To fellowship with like believers.
4. To express our faith in song and other means.

* The Church is known as the Bride of Christ.

Ok; you wife, I will have faith in light bulbs. Same result, less bad music.
I dont need instruction in righteousness, i can get that with the Truth of 2 plus 2 is 4, or making accurate measurements of ocean depth.

I notice you are avoiding the point here about faith which is either that you are using the word wrong, or i gets eternal life for light bulb faith.

Can we just go straight to the pwn now, or does you have to go round a few more times first?

 

[Freodin]

But if you can, and you don't, then you're choosing to walk by faith - not sight.

I would venture to say that most of the scientists who have enough capital to do so --- don't.

Why? Because it would be a waste of money.

Do you deny the basic difference? Do you really think that the faith in verifiable scientific data is the same as in "documentation"?

Is your faith really so weak that you need scientific backup... or do you just want to bring scientists down to your level?

 

[Hespera]

Do you deny the basic difference? Do you really think that the faith in verifiable scientific data is the same as in "documentation"?

Is your faith really so weak that you need scientific backup... or do you just want to bring scientists down to your level?

Gonna have to quit denying the basic difference, or accept that faith in trenches will get a person eternal life!

As for "down to level" I dont think they'd see it that way, tho to me it is.
I wish one of the theocreos would tell us why they keep bringing it up over and over the canard that "evolution is a religion" or "you have to have faith to believe evolution".

Its not a winner, its ridiculous.

To me it means that "religion" isnt much if you can have it without intending it and while denying it.

Faith is even less than that. Totally empty words. Once you widen a word out to take in religious "faith" and light bulb faith, the word has lost all useful meaning.

I'd think they'd want to place more value on their special words.

Anyway, no, ye who wouldst have us on the same ark, containment vessel, page or stage as thyself by comparing the mariana trench to the bible, no dice. We aint there with you.

 

[mpok1519]

~yawn~

why are there even responses to this thread?

If we take on faith that the mariana trench is that deep bc of VALID DATA ENTRY BY CERTIFIED SCIENTISTS, then its not faith. There has been someone who went out and measured it, for theirself, and then relayed this info back to the public, us. Its not faith, its data and records; the instruments they use can tell us if someone deliberately recorded false data, yknow. The instruments can tellus whether or not the recorded data entries were manually recorded by people, or if the instruments were used properly in their data collection.

So no, theres no faith involved.

ever used any of those instruments in a clinical/lab setting AV? No? didn't think so. So no, nothing you say regarding scientific data and faith is valid.

Why did I even respond to this? This is one of the most asanine ideas ever: "Unless you go to mars for yourself, you take on faith that it exists."

NO, thats not how it works. ~ignore~

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you deny the basic difference?

There is no difference.

The Mariana Trench was verified by those who were there and documented it.

Jesus' resurrection was verified by those who were there and documented it.

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once;

Speaking of five hundred, how many total eyewitnesses to the depth of the Mariana Trench do we have?

Do you really think that the faith in verifiable scientific data is the same as in "documentation"?

Yes --- since that 'verifiable scientific data' is in written form.

Is your faith really so weak that you need scientific backup...

Not at all --- I'm the one claiming the Flood happened.

Me --- the same person who claims there's zero evidence for that Flood --- remember?

I don't need evidence --- I have [faith in] the Documentation.

... or do you just want to bring scientists down to your level?

Seeing as how highly I hold them up, that's quite a statement.

 

[mpok1519]

There is no difference.

The Mariana Trench was verified by those who were there and documented it.

Jesus' resurrection was verified by those who were there and documented it.Speaking of five hundred, how many total eyewitnesses to the depth of the Mariana Trench do we have?Yes --- since that 'verifiable scientific data' is in written form.Not at all --- I'm the one claiming the Flood happened.

Me --- the same person who claims there's zero evidence for that Flood --- remember?

I don't need evidence --- I have [faith in] the Documentation.Seeing as how highly I hold them up, that's quite a statement.

so, if people can lie about the mariana trench, what would stop someone from lying about jesus, ESPECIALLY when they make money from Him?

 

[AV1611VET]

so, if people can lie about the mariana trench, what would stop someone from lying about jesus, ESPECIALLY when they make money from Him?

I'm not talking about lying --- I'm talking about telling the truth.

Lying is a whole different department --- 1.