The Lord's supper

[Willie T]

Then teach them a "secret" handshake. You're leaning that way anyway by saying they have to be in your club to know Jesus.

 

[Knee V]

Then teach them a "secret" handshake. You're leaning that way anyway by saying they have to be in your club to know Jesus.

I said that? What did I say to bring you to that conclusion?

 

[Willie T]

If you were to try to take communion in the RC and you were not Catholic yourself, if the priest/deacon were doing his job you would not be given communion in the first place, regardless whether or not you believed in Transubstantiation. And if you were to receive and told them afterwards that you were not Catholic, then you would not be able to receive there again. However, many Catholic parishes have many parishioners and it is difficult to keep track of who is Catholic and who is not, so I'd imagine that it would be easy for someone to slip through the cracks.

Uh............... I do believe you said it right here?

 

[Knee V]

Uh............... I do believe you said it right here?

Right where? I said no such thing in that quote. I commented on what would probably happen in a Catholic Church if a non-Catholic were to take communion and announce that he was not Catholic and didn't believe in the Catholic dogma of Transubstantiation. Nothing about Orthodoxy or about knowing Jesus.

And to be sure, in Orthodoxy (my "club"), only those who are Orthodox may receive the Eucharist. But in no way does that imply that those who are not Orthodox somehow do not know Jesus. We do not have a monopoly on God's grace.

 

[Willie T]

Right where? I said no such thing in that quote. I commented on what would probably happen in a Catholic Church if a non-Catholic were to take communion and announce that he was not Catholic and didn't believe in the Catholic dogma of Transubstantiation. Nothing about Orthodoxy or about knowing Jesus.

And to be sure, in Orthodoxy (my "club"), only those who are Orthodox may receive the Eucharist. But in no way does that imply that those who are not Orthodox somehow do not know Jesus. We do not have a monopoly on God's grace.

Disragarding the fact that neither you nor I can answer what would happen in a Catholic church, since we never attend one, why in the world would you refuse a fellow believer in Jesus the opportunity to remember his savior with you?

Jesus instituted the Last Supper, not your church or mine.

 

[AHJE]

Disragarding the fact that neither you nor I can answer what would happen in a Catholic church, since we never attend one, why in the world would you refuse a fellow believer in Jesus the opportunity to remember his savior with you?

Jesus instituted the Last Supper, not your church or mine.

It is not a mere remembrance but a making present AGAIN here and now the one Sacrifice that has Redeemed us and it is not mere bread and wine it is the Body and Blood of the God-Man.

Jesus does not allow the faithless to receive Him. As long as you think that this is merely symbolic, you are denying the Master who ransomed us.

God bless you.

 

[Knee V]

Disragarding the fact that neither you nor I can answer what would happen in a Catholic church, since we never attend one, why in the world would you refuse a fellow believer in Jesus the opportunity to remember his savior with you?

Jesus instituted the Last Supper, not your church or mine.

The Eucharist is not merely a "remembrance" as we would understand it in 21st century English speak. The concept of "remembrance" in Greek, especially as that word is used in the both the New Testament and the Greek translation of the Old Testament, meant something very different. I'll offer an article for you to read that I think sums up this Scriptural teaching rather succinctly: The Real Presence in the Orthodox Tradition

As to why we practice closed communion, that would be a separate topic, which I'd be happy to discuss in another thread. Perhaps you could start one about which churches/denominations practice closed communion and why they do so. I just don't want to derail this thread too much.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Disragarding the fact that neither you nor I can answer what would happen in a Catholic church, since we never attend one, why in the world would you refuse a fellow believer in Jesus the opportunity to remember his savior with you?

Jesus instituted the Last Supper, not your church or mine.

While I can not speak for our Catholic brothers and sisters, I can assure you that were you to do this in one of our Confessional Lutheran Congregations and deny the presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist, you would receive stern counsel and admonition from the Pastor and members of the Congregation. Were you to try it again, you would be passed by at the Altar.
I would expect that you would get the same reaction in the RCC and the Orthodox Church as well.

While I stated that "I can not speak for our Catholic brothers and sisters" in my earlier post quoted above out of respect for them; this is indeed what would happen.

I grew up in a community of predominantly Confessional Lutherans and Roman Catholics. I also served these same, numerous Congregations and some reformed protestant Congregations as a Funeral Director. All of the RC Clergy that I worked with in this profession I count as good friends, and we discussed many things; this topic being one of them.

I can attest to these Pastors and their Congregations being identical in practice to our own. Knee-v is quite correct in what he stated.

Willie, I have a question for you; since you have expressed much disrespect for this practice, and I assume various other doctrines, dogmas and practices of the RC, EO and it would seem, Confessional Lutherans: Why would you personally want to publicly express full doctrinal agreement with any of these three Churches by approaching the Altar? Such public act would also be a display of one's disregard for their own Churches teaching.

 

[Willie T]

Why would you personally want to publicly express full doctrinal agreement with any of these three Churches by approaching the Altar? Such public act would also be a display of one's disregard for their own Churches teaching.

As I thought I said quite clearly in an earlier post, Communion is not a denominational issue. It was instituted by one single man, not a committee of any men from any denomination.

I have attended funerals at Catholic churches, and the priests have always made it clear that any Protestant could come forward and get themselves a wafer. They just asked that we Protestants make an "X" over our chests so they wouldn't say their chant at us.

I take Communion at my church, NOT for any recognition of the Vineyard denomination at all, but as a remembrance of the fully finished and completed sacrifice that Jesus made for me. As I said, Communion has nothing to do with any denomination, whatsoever.

 

[Albion]

I have attended funerals at Catholic churches, and the priests have always made it clear that any Protestant could come forward and get themselves a wafer. They just asked that we Protestants make an "X" over our chests so they wouldn't say their chant at us.

Apparently you misunderstood the priests' instructions. The "X" means "I am not eligible to receive communion; give me a blessing instead." I have no idea what happens to you if you're unintentionally caught in the line of fire of a chant.

 

[SQLservant]

I have no idea what happens to you if you're unintentionally caught in the line of fire of a chant.

I hear it involves some burning in the ears. You might also recoil in fear if you're a vampire.

 

[Tangible]

 

[Willie T]

Apparently you misunderstood the priests' instructions. The "X" means "I am not eligible to receive communion; give me a blessing instead." I have no idea what happens to you if you're unintentionally caught in the line of fire of a chant.

Hey, it's your club, not mine. Just telling you how it has always gone down. I walked up and crossed my hands in front of me, as asked to do, and they always handed me a wafer, and never said a word to me.

I have always thought it a little odd that they don't offer me, nor the Catholics, any wine at all. But that's their thing, and I don't need it to remember His sacrifice.

 

[Albion]

Hey, it's your club, not mine.

It's not my club.

I walked up and crossed my hands in front of me, as asked to do, and they always handed me a wafer, and never said a word to me.

I have always thought it a little odd that they don't offer me, nor the Catholics, any wine at all. But that's their thing, and I don't need it to remember His sacrifice.

Are you just putting us on with these alleged experiences? Of course Catholics are offered the wine in every parish church without exception, and if you ever were there, you could hardly miss it.

 

[Chi Rho]

Hey, it's your club, not mine. Just telling you how it has always gone down. I walked up and crossed my hands in front of me, as asked to do, and they always handed me a wafer, and never said a word to me.

I have always thought it a little odd that they don't offer me, nor the Catholics, any wine at all. But that's their thing, and I don't need it to remember His sacrifice.

Were you crossing your arms over your chest rather than just crossing your hands ? That is what a non-Catholic does in my country. Also, you might not have received the precious blood because some churches perform the Communion Rite under just one species.

 

[Albion]

Were you crossing your arms over your chest rather than just crossing your hands ? That is what a non-Catholic does in my country. Also, you might not have received the precious blood because

some churches perform the Communion Rite under just one species.

Not in this country where this allegedly happened to him more than once.

 

[SQLservant]

Are you just putting us on with these alleged experiences? Of course Catholics are offered the wine in every parish church without exception, and if you ever were there, you could hardly miss it.

I thought that only applied to Sunday Masses in the American dioceses. The daily Masses (which I thought funeral Masses would be comparable with) that I have seen and been present at have not had the Chalice offered to the laity, though the Sunday Masses have.

Why the priest would think it's okay to give it to a non-Catholic or a Catholic in bad standing so long as he doesn't tell him it's the Body of Christ when he gives it to him makes me wonder, though...

 

[Albion]

I thought that only applied to Sunday Masses in the American dioceses. The daily Masses (which I thought funeral Masses would be comparable with) that I have seen and been present at have not had the Chalice offered to the laity

If you say so, but I can't imagine how that would be considered appropriate after Vatican II. I was going to say that possibly in some monastic settings or with an especially-sanctioned Latin Mass, but not something like an ordinary funeral mass.

Why the priest would think it's okay to give it to a non-Catholic or a Catholic in bad standing so long as he doesn't tell him it's the Body of Christ when he gives it to him makes me wonder, though...

Right. There are more and more priests who defy the church's regulations, but this story is highly questionable IMO.

 

[Willie T]

Trust me, about the last thing I would ever do is go forward to ask a priest to bless me. And, yes, it was crossing arms, hands sort of touching shoulders.

They did have wine there. The priest took a slug, and at this last funeral, I think he also gave the old man holding the long pole some too, but no one else got any.

 

[Albion]

Trust me, about the last thing I would ever do is go forward to ask a priest to bless me. And, yes, it was crossing arms, hands sort of touching shoulders.

They did have wine there. The priest took a slug, and at this last funeral, I think he also gave the old man holding the long pole some too, but no one else got any.

Probably the main thing we can say at this point is that all of this is quite atypical. And it does obviously cause someone to wonder. How, for example, could the priest put the host (wafer) into your hand(s}, as you said happened, while you had them on your shoulders or chest? The priest sees you with crossed arms and thinks it only a pious gesture even after having instructed non-Catholics to adopt this posture, and so hands you the host and you have no choice but to unfold your arms and take it?