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The Lord's supper

janwoG

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By ecumenism, I do not mean to blend different traditions but I mean to focus on what is common. In doing so, one discover what is fundamental. One of the main obstacles to fulfill the aim of ecumenism, is the lack of acceptance of intercommunion by the Roman Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches with other Christian churches.
For Catholics and Orthodox, Transubstantiation - Catholic and Orthodox (terminology differs) concept of Christ fully, truly and substantially present in the Eucharist with the physical species being substantially absent. The communion can only been operated by ordained ministers, repeating the sacrifice of Jesus. The real body of Jesus in the bred has sometimes strange phenomenon, I remember seen a female teen in the Philippines, eating an host transformed in a bloody piece of meat. I found this aspect, rather repulsive.
For Protestants, there is only one event, the last supper of the Lord effected by before His passion, 2000 years ago. Because, No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6.44). There is one God, there is one mediator between God and human kind, Christ Jesus, Himself human who gave Himself a ransom for all. (Timothy 2.5)
In their Leuenberger agreement, Lutherans and reformed agreed, that in the Lord's Supper the risen Jesus Christ imparts himself in his body and blood, given for all, through his word of promise with bread and wine. He thus gives himself unreservedly to all who receive the bread and wine; faith receives the Lord's Supper for salvation, unfaith for judgment. We cannot separate communion with Jesus Christ in his body and blood from the act of eating and drinking. To be concerned about the manner of Christ's presence in the Lord's Supper I abstraction from this act is to run the risk of obscuring the meaning of the Lord's Supper.
http://oga.pcusa.org/ecumenicalrelations/resources/formula.pdf
For janwoG, during the last supper, at the time I accept the bread and the wine as the sign of the spiritual body and spiritual wine, I associate to the unique institution of Jesus which transcends space and time, I participate to the mystical body of Jesus. Hence, whether the body and blood are materially real in bred and the wine or if it is a sign where the spiritual body of Christ appears in that sacrament, the aim is the same and one may be able to agree on that in intercommunion.
Let us hope in the future, that the last supper helps us to fulfill the commandment of Jesus to be one with Him, and through Him one with the heavenly Father, in order that our Gospel will be credible to human kind.
 

MrPolo

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One of the main obstacles to fulfill the aim of ecumenism, is the lack of acceptance of intercommunion by the Roman Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches with other Christian churches.

Catholics and Orthodox don't lack acceptance of other persons. They rather refuse to compromise what they hold as divinely revealed truth for the sake of an artificial unity. Rule #1 in ecumenism - never compromise the truth for the sake of "unity."

The Apostles would have never done such a thing either. Can you imagine someone criticizing them for excluding people who deny the divinity of Christ. Those apostles pose an obstacle to unity! they would say.
 
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James4_14

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Catholics and Orthodox don't lack acceptance of other persons. They rather refuse to compromise what they hold as divinely revealed truth for the sake of an artificial unity. Rule #1 in ecumenism - never compromise the truth for the sake of "unity."

The Apostles would have never done such a thing either. Can you imagine someone criticizing them for excluding people who deny the divinity of Christ. Those apostles pose an obstacle to unity! they would say.

If I were to receive communion in the rc and made it known I did not believe in transubstantiation what would be thought of me? Be truthful please.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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If I were to receive communion in the rc and made it known I did not believe in transubstantiation what would be thought of me? Be truthful please.

While I can not speak for our Catholic brothers and sisters, I can assure you that were you to do this in one of our Confessional Lutheran Congregations and deny the presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist, you would receive stern counsel and admonition from the Pastor and members of the Congregation. Were you to try it again, you would be passed by at the Altar.:preach:

I would expect that you would get the same reaction in the RCC and the Orthodox Church as well.
 
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Knee V

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What the OP says about the Orthodox view of the Eucharist is not entirely accurate. The Orthodox and Catholics both believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, but the similarity pretty much ends there. The Orthodox do not define the essence of the Eucharist the way the Catholics do. In fact, we really don't define it at all. We would not say "Christ fully, truly and substantially present in the Eucharist with the physical species being substantially absent."

Also, we do not believe that we are repeating the Sacrifice of Christ. It cannot be repeated. Rather, we believe that we are transcending time and participating with that once-for-all sacrifice. It is being "made present" to us.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Catholics and Orthodox don't lack acceptance of other persons. They rather refuse to compromise what they hold as divinely revealed truth for the sake of an artificial unity. Rule #1 in ecumenism - never compromise the truth for the sake of "unity."

The Apostles would have never done such a thing either. Can you imagine someone criticizing them for excluding people who deny the divinity of Christ. Those apostles pose an obstacle to unity! they would say.

Indeed. Confessional Lutheran Synods, view ecumenism the same way.

Within Churches which "officially" hold the doctrine of the real presence, the Eucharist as a means of Grace but practice "open" communion; have found their membership in disunity regarding other theological matters. One compromise, leads to many others.

What the OP says about the Orthodox view of the Eucharist is not entirely accurate. The Orthodox and Catholics both believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, but the similarity pretty much ends there. The Orthodox do not define the essence of the Eucharist the way the Catholics do. In fact, we really don't define it at all. We would not say "Christ fully, truly and substantially present in the Eucharist with the physical species being substantially absent."

Also, we do not believe that we are repeating the Sacrifice of Christ. It cannot be repeated. Rather, we believe that we are transcending time and participating with that once-for-all sacrifice. It is being "made present" to us.

This describes the teaching of the Confessional Lutherans as well. While we hold to the doctrine of the Real Presence, and the Sacraments as a means of Grace, there are other doctrines, teachings and practices that still separate us, unfortunately; however, the practice of "closed Communion" is one in which the EO, RCC and Confessional Lutherans do agree... unity in disunity?:):confused:;)
 
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Willie T

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If I were to receive communion in the rc and made it known I did not believe in transubstantiation what would be thought of me? Be truthful please.
At most Vineyards, someone might offer to take you to lunch, and sit down, and have some conversation with you about what you DO believe.
 
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Knee V

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If I were to receive communion in the rc and made it known I did not believe in transubstantiation what would be thought of me? Be truthful please.

If you were to try to take communion in the RC and you were not Catholic yourself, if the priest/deacon were doing his job you would not be given communion in the first place, regardless whether or not you believed in Transubstantiation. And if you were to receive and told them afterwards that you were not Catholic, then you would not be able to receive there again. However, many Catholic parishes have many parishioners and it is difficult to keep track of who is Catholic and who is not, so I'd imagine that it would be easy for someone to slip through the cracks.
 
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AHJE

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Peace be to all,

The greatest gift of the Son of Man to His Bride, the Church, is the Most Holy Eucharist in the Lord's Supper. This is the means by which Jesus gives Himself TOTALLY and loves us unto the END (EXTREME). It is the Sacrament of Redemption and is the very same Sacrifice by which He redeemed us (even under the outward appearances of bread and wine).

We walk by faith and not by sight.
We walk by the Word of Christ and not by our sense perceptions.
We eat and drink what Jesus gave and not bread and wine.
We eat the Body of Christ and we drink the Blood of the same Christ.

Yet this is not a perishable food but rather the IMPERISHABLE MEAT promised in St. John 6:27! It is the Incorruptible Flesh of the Son of Man and the Precious Blood with which Jesus enters into the Holy of Holies (Heaven) as our Great High Priest in the order of Melchizedeck!

So the bottom line is: WE CONSUME THE LIVING GOD INCARNATE AT THE LORD'S SUPPER.

And if you willfully commit sacrilege against this Blessed Sacrament you are eating and drinking condemnation upon yourself (as St. Paul writes in his epistle to the Corinthians). (I hope that noone here is guilty of this sin).

Jesus desires unity but not at the expense of truth. Once someone is graced with faith in the whole revealed truth of God given to the Church and is Baptized into Christ, then one is welcome to share in Holy Communion.

God bless you.
 
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Albion

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If you were to try to take communion in the RC and you were not Catholic yourself, if the priest/deacon were doing his job you would not be given communion in the first place, regardless whether or not you believed in Transubstantiation. And if you were to receive and told them afterwards that you were not Catholic, then you would not be able to receive there again. However, many Catholic parishes have many parishioners and it is difficult to keep track of who is Catholic and who is not, so I'd imagine that it would be easy for someone to slip through the cracks.

As discipline in the RCC gradually breaks down, as in many other denominations, this apparently is no longer absolute and many priests unofficially welcome baptised Christians of other denominations to the altar for communion.
 
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AHJE

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As discipline in the RCC gradually breaks down, as in many other denominations, this apparently is no longer absolute and many priests unofficially welcome baptised Christians of other denominations to the altar for communion.

As discipline gradually breaks down? ... You are speaking about a 2,000 year old Church (founded by Christ) ... if there was a gradual breakdown of discipline like you suggest there would BE no Catholic Church still standing today.

And it is indeed standing and walking by the impenetrable power of the Holy Spirit.

What you are saying is completely opposed to the Teaching of Christ as delivered by the Church. If there are such priests who are so negligent then he will have to answer to Christ. Can you produce evidence of such negligence?

Thanks be to God (for the Rock foundation of the Church). :)
 
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Albion

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As discipline gradually breaks down?

Yes, it's sad for Catholics but it's all around you. The rules on the sacraments, marriage, ordination, and so much else have been unraveling through clerical lenience for several generations. Since Vatican II some would probably say. And you have to sympathize with the unfortunate situation that the clergy are in these days when no one wants to do what the church demands, so long as they find it inconvenient. So the church bends.

What you are saying is completely opposed to the Teaching of Christ as delivered by the Church.

Maybe. I'm simply commenting on the facts, not taking a position about what's good to do or not do in this situation.
 
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Willie T

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If you were to try to take communion in the RC and you were not Catholic yourself, if the priest/deacon were doing his job you would not be given communion in the first place, regardless whether or not you believed in Transubstantiation. And if you were to receive and told them afterwards that you were not Catholic, then you would not be able to receive there again. However, many Catholic parishes have many parishioners and it is difficult to keep track of who is Catholic and who is not, so I'd imagine that it would be easy for someone to slip through the cracks.
Can't you burn a brand into their foreheads?
 
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