The Lord's Day is Sunday.

[BobRyan]

The argument that there is not an actual text saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day" is such an obvious Bible detail that you can even find this statement said about that fact -




=========================
“The Faith Explained” by Leo J. Trese
The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II
1965 -- first published 1959
(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

“nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..tha is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholics who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church”

==============================

There we find that the Catholic Church admits that the Bible does not declare such a change from Saturday to Sunday as the Lord's Day. They admit that in the Bible the Lord's Day is Saturday.

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it.."

And they admit that no Bible text declares that any change was made to that fact -- rather it is a change having no higher authority than tradition -- possibly centuries later.

...

there is nothing in His Word where He states the 7th day Sabbath was changed ... on the contrary .... For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath .... remember the Sabbath and keep it holy (set apart) set apart from all the other days.

At least the Catholics are honest about it ....

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

While it is true that explicit assignment can be found in the form "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10

There is no "the first day is the Lord's Day" text.

But we do have this -

1. "the Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
2. "The Sabbath is the Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13

Other than those two I don't know of any other text that tries to assign a specific day of the week to the term

But since both of those point to Saturday, they certainly don't back the use of Sunday as the Lord's Day. In all probability it is the Gentile church that changed the importance of Sunday, since it wasn't as bound to Saturday as the Jewish side of the church was.

 

[eleos1954]

I guess that's the thinking all right. It seems as though a few, at least, of the well-known denominations would hold that view if it were that obvious and yet, to my knowledge, none of them do.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

"well-known" denominations or the Word of God?

Word of God always and forever.

Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
Genesis 2:3

*holy - set apart - set apart from all other days

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 20:8-11

 

[BobRyan]

But since both of those point to Saturday, they certainly don't back the use of Sunday as the Lord's Day. In all probability it is the Gentile church that changed the importance of Sunday, since it wasn't as bound to Saturday as the Jewish side of the church was.

That is very likely. And notice that in Acts 15 it is the "Jerusalem council" that settles questions for the entire church - that pattern had to have ended at the very least by the time of the destruction of Jerusalem. Even so John is writing at the end of the first century and was still recognized as a key leader so then probably shortly after that the full sway of gentile opinions began to take hold at all leadership levels.

 

[Tone]

I voted "other," because no one but the Father knows the day and hour...of that day.

 

[Albion]

2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

So you're saying that it makes sense to think that one's self is correct about some issue even though all the many teachers, scholars, Bible scholars, linguists, clergy, and etc., throughout Christian history understood the meaning of the very same information to be the opposite?

They are all to be summarily dismissed as "false teachers" or "false prophets" for disagreeing with one lone person who read the same Bible passage and came up with his own theory?? Hmmmm.

"well-known" denominations or the Word of God?

Well-known denominations which are committed to the Word of God.

 

[Scott Husted]

For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.

To throw it out there ...

God's love/rest (the day/seed) is beyond thought, but one could view it as the unending consecutive series of encounters in one's soul that they are led both into and out of, which build upon themselves.

The life long experience that are in the words "I will receive you unto myself" is a movement from glory/experience to glory/experience; a process (of time) where what you have experienced becomes as something normal to you; a cycle of seed time and harvest in relationship to the thoughts/will/emotions of the soul, until you become Lord of the harvest which is an internal truth of spirit and soul as much as it is the collective truth of Christ Jesus.

"All the words of this life" in one form is the eternal gospel preached from the foundation of the world, based upon and to divulge through experience a realtiy of a glory that was before the world was which defines rest.

Most people see in part which is not a I am higher than thou art statement. By seeking to make things more than they are we make them less than they are; like dismissing the haystack to look for a needle.

 

[eleos1954]

So you're saying that it makes sense to think that one's self is correct about some issue even though all the many teachers, scholars, Bible scholars, linguists, clergy, and etc., throughout Christian history understood the meaning of the very same information to be the opposite?

They are all to be summarily dismissed as "false teachers" or "false prophets" for disagreeing with one lone person who read the same Bible passage and came up with his own theory?? Hmmmm.


Well-known denominations which are committed to the Word of God.

Matthew 7:14
Berean Study Bible
But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

His Word says what it says ... and it's not just "one lone person" ... there are many who keep the Lords 7th day Sabbath.

This is what I am saying ....

The Lord's Day is Sunday.

 

[eleos1954]

Jesus rose on the first day, and that is why a later verse in the Bible says that the early Christians met for worship on Sunday. However, he did not ascend to the Father on the same day as he rose from the grave.

That's the point .... He kept the 7th day Sabbath throughout His entire life on earth .... even in His death. He sealed creation with His 7th day Sabbath .... He sealed the plan of salvation on the Sabbath He created.

It is finished .... He had finished all the work that needed to be done on earth ... He now ministers from the heavenly sanctuary (the REAL one)

there is nothing in His Word where He states the 7th day Sabbath was changed ... on the contrary .... For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath .... remember the Sabbath and keep it holy (set apart) set apart from all the other days.

At least the Catholics are honest about it ....

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

Can man change that which God created? No.

 

[BobRyan]

...

there is nothing in His Word where He states the 7th day Sabbath was changed ... on the contrary .... For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath .... remember the Sabbath and keep it holy (set apart) set apart from all the other days.

At least the Catholics are honest about it ....

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….

Now there is a detail well worth noting.

thanks for posting that!

 

[parousia70]

What are you referring to? Where did you get that number?

Got it... So I am correct. You do not Follow, Observe, or Practice The Law of Moses.

Thank you for the clarification and admission.

Again, I challenge anyone who claims the OT law MUST be Followed today, to name even one person on the planet today that observes the Law of Moses. It's impossible. There isn't one. That's because there is no Law System extant anywhere on the planet to accommodate or demand observance. It went up in smoke at AD 70.

Nearly 1/2 of the Law of Moses consists in Temple practices/rituals/Levitical duties. The Law of Moses does not consist in reading a book. It consists in strict OBSERVANCE. There is no way to observe the Law of Moses and hasn't been since AD 70.

 

[Albion]

there is nothing in His Word where He states the 7th day Sabbath was changed

I already gave you the verse.

At least the Catholics are honest about it ....

I don't think there is any reason to doubt the honesty of the rest of the 90% of Christianity that worships on Sunday, too.

 

[eleos1954]

I already gave you the verse.


I don't think there is any reason to doubt the honesty of the rest of the 90% of Christianity that worships on Sunday, too.

Where in His word does Jesus say He changed the day He created?

He created it ... HE is the only one that could change it ... and He DID NOT .... what HE did do is remind us to KEEP it holy.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Luke 24 late on Sunday afternoon

20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.

That makes Sunday very late in the day "the third day" - which means Friday is the first day, Saturday the second and Sunday the 3rd. It can not work any other way with late on Sunday being "the third day" given that Jesus has been resurrected for most of that day already.



It appears to us that you are saying that "in spite of the language" in the text - not because of it.

You have free will of course - but it does not make for a compelling argument.

Again, the two men are referring to the 3 day prophecy of Jesus has taken place already from their perspective, and they are not referring to the very day that they were in as being the third day.

Luke 24:21
“But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.”

Most think like we Gentiles do about the use of the words “to day.”
We tend to count the day we are still experiencing.
But the day they were experiencing was not over. It was not a complete day and could not be the third day. This means that they are saying, “to date” or “currently” (not counting today) is the third day since these things within the prophecy made by Jesus has happened already. They are referring to His prophecy as already happened (Note: the word “day” can be defined as “date”; See here).

Again, generally men wait until the day is over before losing hope if a prophecy was not fulfilled or not. So your idea that the two men on the Emmaus road wanted to count the very day they were in and lose hope when the day was not even over does not make any sense.

Again, if you believe in something other than a Wednesday crucifixion with a Saturday resurrection, then your Math is off. 72 hours (or 3 days and 3 nights) only works with the Wednesday / Saturday model. You have to allegorize the days and nights in order to make some other model work.

But you are free to believe as you wish.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You were wrong then and now

Hitting the disagree button does not really prove anything.

 

[parousia70]

I don't think there is any reason to doubt the honesty of the rest of the 90% of Christianity that worships on Sunday, too.

Indeed.
As is the constant witness of history concerning the early Christians, the standard gathering day of worship is Sunday (the Lord's Resurrection Day).

In the year 100AD, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch states:

Ingatius, Bishop of Antioch (AD 100)
"Those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death - whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master - how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead (St. Ignatius: Letter to the Magnesians; Ch 9)

This simple statement by a bishop of one of the apostles' churches echoes that which was stated in an even earlier historic document, The Epistle of Barnabas:

Epistle of Barnabas
"Finally He [God] says to them:I cannot bear your new moons and Sabbaths. You see what he means: It is not the present Sabbaths that are acceptable to me, but the one that I have made; on that Sabbath day, which is the beginning of another world. This is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven."

And that statement is followed by many other statements on the subject by the earliest Christians of the apostolic age. Justin Martyr, in about 150 AD says: "On Sunday, we meet to celebrate the Lords supper and read the Gospels and Sacred Scripture, the first day on which God changed darkness, and made the world, and on which Christ rose from the dead."

And this Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day continued for centuries without interruption. As Eusebius, bishop of Caesarea writes around the year AD 300: "The day of [Christs] light...was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lords day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality" (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186).

And so things continued through all the ecumenical councils of the early Church, and even on through the protestant reformation.

But in the 1800s, following a failed prediction of the Lord's final return in 1844, a last-days group of Americans emerged that received a new doctrine: a mass boycott of Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day. The foremost proponent of the new Saturday Sabbath-keeping among early Adventists was retired sea captain Joseph Bates. Bates was introduced to the Sabbath doctrine by a tract written by a Millerite preacher named Thomas M. Preble, who in turn had been influenced by Rachel Oakes Preston, a young Seventh Day Baptist. This new message was gradually accepted and formed the topic of the first edition of the church publication The Present Truth (now the Adventist Review), which appeared in July 1849. Among its most prominent figures were James White, Ellen G. White and Joseph Bates. Ellen White came to occupy a particularly central role; her many visions and strong leadership convinced her fellow Adventists that she possessed the gift of prophecy.

Could it be that Ellen White is the False Prophet of the Book of Revelation? And how might that relate to the mark of Saturday Sabbath observance?

Revelation speaks of everyone receiving a mark that signifies unity with the evil Beast.

Everyone knows that a new "mark" arose among Christianity in recent centuries that for the first time in history caused some people to break away from Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection. This unique mark could be the one foreseen in Revelation.

History demonstrates that while the Christian Church observed Sunday celebration of the Lord's Resurrection from the first century onward, as mentioned above, a new practice began marking certain people starting in 1860, when a new sect began introducing a practice that did not originate among the early Church up to that time: a mass boycott of celebrating on, Sunday, the Lord's Resurrection Day.

I'm becoming convinced that the Saturday Worship that this group promotes is so unique in Christian history as to represent a possible Mark of the Beast. The sect that launched the new movement even has a special prophet: Ellen G. White. And we all know that a false prophet figures large in the book of Revelation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's even vaguer than simply accepting the Lord's Day as the day Jesus rose from the dead. Like I said there is no explicit indication that 'The Lord's Day' refers specifically to Sundays.

It's the context. Plus, whereas the Sabbath falling on the last day of the week was indicative of the Old Creation, the Christian practice of observing the Sabbath on the FIRST day of the week is a congruent with God's New Creation. We will one day rest in Christ by the bodily resurrection.

Also, see my post #183, as well.

Source used:
BLB

 

[eleos1954]

I already gave you the verse.


I don't think there is any reason to doubt the honesty of the rest of the 90% of Christianity that worships on Sunday, too.

Anglicanism, one of the major branches of the 16th-century Protestant Reformation and a form of Christianity that includes features of both Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. ... Although the Anglican Communion has a creed—the Thirty-nine Articles—it has been disposed to allow widely divergent interpretations.

Get to have your cake and eat it too ;o)

as far as those who call themselves "protestants" ...

here's another interesting statement ...

"The Sabbath was Saturday, not Sunday. The Church altered the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of Sunday. Protestants must be rather puzzled by the keeping of Sunday when God distinctly said, 'Keep holy the Sabbath Day.' The word Sunday does not come anywhere in the Bible, so, without knowing it they are obeying the authority of the Catholic Church." Canon Cafferata, The Catechism Explained, p. 89.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Luke 24 late on Sunday afternoon

20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.

That makes Sunday very late in the day "the third day" - which means Friday is the first day, Saturday the second and Sunday the 3rd. It can not work any other way with late on Sunday being "the third day" given that Jesus has been resurrected for most of that day already.

Again, the two men are referring to the 3 day prophecy of Jesus

1. Nothing in the Luke 24 text suggests that the two disciples were saying "yes we knew that he was supposed to be rejected and crucified but we thought that by now he would have been resurrected since THIS IS the third day". Rather they are simply pointing out that it is "old news" 3-days-old. Not at all "Sure we expected him to be crucified but since today is the third day -- he should be walking around here some place".

2. However even if they were on that page (which the text does not allow -- but just for argument's sake) it would not help your "not the third day since these things happened" position.

So the text says "IT IS the THIRD day" since...

And by contrast you say --

they are not referring to the very day that they were in as being the third day.

you simply put a "NOT" in front of their statement as if they had said "IT is NOT the third day since all these things happened".

This means that they are saying, “to date” or “currently” (not counting today) is the third day since these things within the prophecy made by Jesus has happened already. They are referring to His prophecy as already happened

And there you rework it as if we had read "besides this today is way PAST the third day" ... which is not in the text. And so also is the "sure we expected him to be rejected and crucified as he predicted"...

Notice that in Luke 24 Jesus is trying to PROVE that He was supposed to have been rejected and crucified - which they most certainly did NOT expect.

The argument against Sunday late in the day being included as the "Third day since the crucifixion" cannot survive the details in Luke 24.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

 

[BobRyan]

eleos1954 said: ↑
there is nothing in His Word where He states the 7th day Sabbath was changed

That's true

I already gave you the verse.

on this thread or another one??

Will search back through all the posts to see if you hint at it.

Jesus rose on the first day, and that is why a later verse in the Bible says that the early Christians met for worship on Sunday. However, he did not ascend to the Father on the same day as he rose from the grave.

No text in the Bible (not even Acts 20:7) says that Christians "met every Sunday for worship because Jesus was resurrected on Sunday". (Nor even that Christians "met every Sunday for worship" for any reason whatsoever)

But I have to agree with you that it would have been nice to have such a text because then that could be a "sola scriptura" vetted argument.

Is it any wonder then that the "Sola scriptura" argument gets "hammered" right here by our Catholic friends - on this very point raised..?
see #161