The Lord's Day and the Sabbath are different days of the week

The7thColporteur · May 19, 2018

W2L said:
But God said He swore that they would not be allowed to enter His rest....

Yes. Why? Their unbelief, not because God wanted it that way. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin, and without faith it is impossible to please God ... then see 1 John 3:4.

W2L · May 19, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
Yes. Why? Their unbelief, not because God wanted it that way.

You are saying because they broke sabbath God wouldn't allow them to observe the sabbath? That makes no sense.

The7thColporteur · May 19, 2018

W2L said:
You are saying because they broke sabbath God wouldn't allow them to observe the sabbath? That makes no sense.

No, without faith they couldn't observe sabbath. They could not enter into it.

W2L · May 19, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
No, without faith they couldn't observe sabbath. They could not enter into it.

Yes, and because they could not observe it God wouldn't allow them to do what exactly? Observe it? That makes no sense.

The7thColporteur · May 19, 2018

W2L said:
Yes, and because they could not observe it God wouldn't allow them to do what exactly? Observe it? That makes no sense.

God is stating the facts. Through their unbelief of God's promises to give them rest, they disobeyed God and so, They will not enter into my rest. The wrath of God was upon them.

W2L · May 19, 2018

@The7thColporteur

You see without admitting there are two sabbath rests your argument makes no sense.

W2L · May 19, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
God is stating the facts. Through their unbelief of God's promises to give them rest, they disobeyed God and so, They will not enter into my rest. The wrath of God was upon them.

Unless you admit there are two sabbath rests this make no sense

The7thColporteur · May 19, 2018

W2L said:
Unless you admit there are two sabbath rests this make no sense

Wait and see the study. It will also include verses about why people do not understand. Hebrews 3-4 is drawing upon more than Psalms 95, and understanding that will help.

W2L · May 19, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
Wait and see the study. It will also include verses about why people do not understand. Hebrews 3-4 is drawing upon more than Psalms 95, and understanding that will help.

Thank you but no. You have failed to prove your case and actually prove that it makes no sense. I dont need a lot of copy pasted scripture, and flawed commentary like you already provided. I mean no disrespect but you have failed to prove your assertion that Hebrews 4 and Psalms 95 are speaking of the 7th day rest.

The7thColporteur · May 19, 2018

W2L said:
Thank you but no. ...

Proverbs 18:13 KJB - He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

You either believe this, or you do not. The case was not given yet from scripture [KJB].

W2L · May 19, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
Proverbs 18:13 KJB - He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

You either believe this, or you do not. The case was not given yet from scripture [KJB].

You see, right here is why i wont trust you with more commentary, you fail with properly divide the word of truth. I have heard the matter already, we just debated it and you lost my friend.

BobRyan · May 21, 2018

W2L said:
Psalms 95 isn't talking about the seventh day sabbath

Yet Hebrews 4 makes the claim that the Sabbath of Psalms 95 remains to this very day - just as it was in the days of David.

By contrast Hebrews 11 argues for something "removed" -- the laws of animal sacrifice.

In Hebrews 4 - that which remains is "Sabbath"
In Hebrews 11 -- that which was removed is "animal sacrifices and offerings"

Doveaman · May 21, 2018

BobRyan said:
And Hebrews 4 says "it remains"

The Sabbath-rest that remains was never observed by the Jews:

"It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience." - (Heb 4:6)

The Jews, who formerly had the gospel preached to them through the law, did not enter the Sabbath-rest that remains, even though they did observe the seventh-day rest through the law.

The seventh-day rest and the Sabbath-rest that remains are two different rests.

The Jews were given the seventh-day rest through the law, but they were prevented by God from entering the Sabbath-rest that now remains for the people of God:

"For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God" - (Heb 4:8-10)

The Sabbath-rest that remains for the people of God is a rest in the salvation of Christ, an eternal rest for the soul from the corruption of sin:

"Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest...and you will find rest for your souls." - (Matt 11:28-29)

Those whose souls are at rest in Christ are at rest from the sinful works of our human nature, just as God rested from the materiel works of His natural creation:

"For anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own works, just as God did from His." - (Heb 4:8-10)

Doveaman · May 21, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
God didn't. They did, through their unbelief. 7th day keepers are not necessarily Sabbath keepers. Righteousness comes by faith.

Righteousness by faith is apart from the law and does no rely on observing the Sabbath:

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known." - (Rom 3:21-22)

You don't need faith to observe the Sabbath according to the law, you just need to abstain from work:

"Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God; on it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.” – (Ex 20:8-10)

Even the animals were required to observe the Sabbath.

Abstaining from work from sunset to sunset on Saturdays does not require faith.

Many Jews today observe the Sabbath according to the law, despite their lack of faith in Christ.

LoveGodsWord · May 21, 2018

Doveaman said:
Righteousness by faith is apart from the law and does no rely on observing the Sabbath:

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known." - (Rom 3:21-22)

You don't need faith to observe the Sabbath according to the law, you just need to abstain from work:

"Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God; on it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.” – (Ex 20:8-10)

Even the animals were required to observe the Sabbath.

Abstaining from work from sunset to sunset on Saturdays does not require faith.

Many Jews today observe the Sabbath according to the law, despite their lack of faith in Christ.

Hello Doverman, righteousness is indeed by faith alone.

Are you sure you do not need faith to follow God's WORD?

So please tell us,

If God's WORD says thou shalt not kill and someone goes out and kills is that person showing their faith in God's WORD or not showing their faith in God's WORD?

If God's WORD says thou shalt not commit Adultery and someone goes out and commits Adultery is that person showing their faith in God's WORD or not showing their faith in God's WORD?

The same with all the 10 commandments if God says, to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it HOLY and no work is to be done on this day and someone goes off to work then is that person showing their Faith in God's Word or not showing their faith in God's Word?

JAMES 2:18-20; 26 [18], Yes, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
[19], You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20], But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[26], For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

God's Word disagrees with you. Those who do not follow God's WORD do not have faith or do they show it.

The7thColporteur · May 21, 2018

Doveaman said:
...Many Jews today observe the Sabbath according to the law, despite their lack of faith in Christ.

You are most thoroughly answered here - Hebrews 3-4 [KJB], the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD JEHOVAH - "my rest" "remaineth" to My people.

Jews cannot observe Sabbath without Christ Jesus. They may cease physically upon the 7th day, but that is not the whole of Sabbath, since the Sabbath is spiritual and requires Faith in Christ Jesus to keep it. Feel free to respond to the evidences in the other thread, for this is not the proper thread.

W2L · May 21, 2018

BobRyan said:
Yet Hebrews 4 makes the claim that the Sabbath of Psalms 95 remains to this very day - just as it was in the days of David.

By contrast Hebrews 11 argues for something "removed" -- the laws of animal sacrifice.

In Hebrews 4 - that which remains is "Sabbath"
In Hebrews 11 -- that which was removed is "animal sacrifices and offerings"

No Bob, Hebrews 4 and Psalm 95 is talking about a different rest.

LoveGodsWord · May 21, 2018

W2L said:
No Bob, Hebrews 4 and Psalm 95 is talking about a different rest.

No it isn't Hebrews 4 is also a reference to Psalms 95

VERSE by VERSE SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 linked CLICK ME.

Hope this helps..

W2L · May 21, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
No it isn't Hebrews 4 is also a reference to Psalms 95

VERSE by VERSE SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 linked CLICK ME.

Hope this helps..

There is another rest day that is called "today". Why do you keep ignoring that?

LoveGodsWord · May 21, 2018

W2L said:
There is another rest day that is called "today". Why do you keep ignoring that?

The today is not to harden your heart to God's WORD v7. The other day is in reference to the Gospel v8. You cannot enter God's Sabbath rest v9 without entering the Gospel rest v2

The Lord's Day and the Sabbath are different days of the week

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