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The LOGIC as to why gay marriage should be ILLEGAL

KCKID

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I make no secret of the fact that I dislike the act of homosexuality. I find it extremely repuslive. However, its not my personal dislike that makes homosexuality unnatural, its the fact that depending what you believe in (nature or God), life has been designed to come into the world via male sperm and a female egg (this is natural), it then follows that its natural for the male who conceiverd the child and the female whose egg was conceived would then raise their own child, as its technically part of them - again completely natural. This thread is about marriage. Marriage is an institute which has become the backbone of the family unit/family structure, and an attack on (natural) marriage is an attack on the natural family unit (ie mother, father, and child/children). When homosexuals fight for gay marriage (and then illogically they also seem to fight for the right to adopt children), they are actually fighting against one of the pillars and foudnations of stable society across the earth - the family unit (as it is in nature, mother and father and children)

Pillars and foundations of stable society across the earth? That's a myth. Have you been watching TV reruns of Father Knows Best? Probably not. At 28 you probably would not be aware that at one time 'wholesome' TV fare was the norm as were the type of 'ideal' family that you advocate.

Seems like you're choosing the wrong battle, valuecard. Marriage, the family unit, etc. is being destroyed without any help from homosexuality. I have no idea what the divorce rates are for Australia these days, not to mention the unrest within marriages that have not yet led to separation and divorce but inevitably will. The institution of marriage has been crumbling for decades, long before most people had even heard of homosexuality.

Yes, divorce is rampant and quite easy accomplished in Australia. "I'm sick of him/her" is reason enough to annul a marriage. And this leads, obviously, to broken homes and, inevitably, remarriage. I've said this before but it bears repeating. I know of six instances within my local church where divorce and remarriage have occurred. My church would be quite vocal, I'm sure, if two 'gays' were blatant about their relationship but at least a couple of these divorced/remarrieds actually have positions in the church.

MANY people today are quite open about their involuntary (but natural to them) attraction to others of the same gender. MANY people throughout history had an involuntary (but natural to them) attraction to others of the same gender but they could not be so open for fear of ...whatever. More and more of these folks are actually finding the equivalent of heterosexual 'love' *gasp* with others of like orientation. They wish to make a commitment *gasp* of monogamy with someone they care for deeply in much the same way as a heterosexual might.

As for the act of sex, homosexuals might be just as repulsed by male/female sex as you are repulsed at the idea of homosexual sex. As for the act of sex, they desire the same intimacies with their partner as do heterosexuals. They, like heterosexuals MOST of the time, do NOT perform the act of sex simply to procreate. THAT is reality! You will also find that the world still revolves on its axis once homosexual or heterosexual sex has been performed. Also, I'm not aware that any neighbors or their children have dropped dead from what takes place in someone elses bedroom.

All you are doing, valuecard, is perpetuating the notion that homosexuals are misfits of society, unworthy of equality, and are required to do something about it. What that might entail you don't offer any ideas or suggestions. Therapy for the homosexual because YOU don't like homosexuality? Lifetime celibacy for the homosexual because YOU don't like homosexuality? What would you have them do in order to become normal and upstanding and a pillar of 'stable' society such as yourself?
 
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cantata

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I make no secret of the fact that I dislike the act of homosexuality. I find it extremely repuslive.

“The act of homosexuality”? Which act is that, exactly? In my experience there are a whole range of “homosexual acts”.
 
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KCKID

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valuecard said:
I make no secret of the fact that I dislike the act of homosexuality. I find it extremely repuslive.

“The act of homosexuality”? Which act is that, exactly? In my experience there are a whole range of “homosexual acts”.

I've heard of one common but rather deplorable act where homosexuals tend to nibble on each others' ears like rabbits eating a carrot. Maybe that's what he finds repulsive. :)
 
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pgp_protector

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I've heard of one common but rather deplorable act where homosexuals tend to nibble on each others' ears like rabbits eating a carrot. Maybe that's what he finds repulsive. :)

Oh I was thinking maybe it's when One partner is visiting the other in ICU.
 
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Beanieboy

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Where is the logic? I didn't hear any.

I live in Toronto. They have gay marriage
Brothers aren't marrying their sisters.
Men aren't marrying donkeys.
And a broom? A broom?

I exist because I was made by heterosexual people.
I am gay, apart from my sexual life, just as you are straight even if you are celebate.

But here is where you need to take a LOGIC 101 class.

A man and a woman are two consentual beings.
Two adult men wanting to marry are two consensual beings.

A dog isn't consensual. You can't vote a dog or a pig into office. A dog can't get a loan at a bank. A cow can't sit anywhere he wants to on a bus after Civil Rights, because it only applies to human beings. At least in the US.

Children aren't consensual, and that is why men can't marry little girls. The other reason is that logical parents wouldn't let a 5 year old girl date a 30 year old man. I thought that was a no brainer.

So, 2 people/opposite sex is very similar to 2 people/same sex.
2 people/opposite sex is not equal to 1 human and one inanimate object or animal.

Your second argument is that gay couples can't have kids. That's true. Were we dying out, that would be an issue, but China has an overpopulation problem. Sometimes gay couples adopt those children. Sometimes they have no kids, and that's fine. Heterosexual couples are considered married even if they never have nor want children ever.

Next, you make broad generalizations about 1 incident, such as a man wanting to marry a pig. Again, here in Toronto, no Ma-Pig parades, Man-Pig bars where they pick each other up...

So, it's like saying, "A man molested a little girl, so we have to make heterosexual marriage illegal, or it's a slippery slope from a man marrying an 18 year old, to a man marrying a 5 year old. Men molest little girls!!!"

Yes, they do. But that says nothing about 2 adults getting married. See how illogical that is?

Finally, you claim that marriage is one man and one woman.
Have you read the bible?
Solomon had 100s of wives and many more concubines.
David had 5 or 6 wives.
People in Saudi Arabia can have up to 4 under their religion.
There is a story in the bible where a man wants to marry a woman by trading the father some goats. He says that he must first marry her sister. He does, and later marries the woman whom he loves. 1 man, 2 women.

Marriage was also a contract with the wife as property. Has that changed?

Do you have to approve?
No. I don't approve of drive thru weddings in Vegas, but those are legal, and often annulled in the same stay in Vegas.
 
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KCKID

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In the Bible there are a lot of examples of marriage between either one man and many women, or one man and one woman. Where in the Bible is there an example of a same-sex marriage?

So therefore your point is ...?

Examples of 21st Century life that are NOT found in the Bible would sink a battle ship. Why on earth is the Bible, written by men who had no concept of indoor plumbing, used to demonstrate 'a norm'?

One will not find God in the pages of a book.
 
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In the Bible there are a lot of examples of marriage between either one man and many women, or one man and one woman. Where in the Bible is there an example of a same-sex marriage?

There are lots of things in the modern world of which no example can be found in the Bible. That is because the book is 2000 years old and a fair bit has happened in the interim.

The fact that different types of marriage are discussed within the bible shows that the understanding of what the relationship should be was changing even thousands of years ago, so I fail to understand why the concept should necessarily be defined statically in such a way as to not allow homosexual marriage.
 
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MoonLancer

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In the Bible there are a lot of examples of marriage between either one man and many women, or one man and one woman. Where in the Bible is there an example of a same-sex marriage?

for everything you do in your life do you NEED an example of it in the bible?
 
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quatona

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In the Bible there are a lot of examples of marriage between either one man and many women, or one man and one woman. Where in the Bible is there an example of a same-sex marriage?
Since the thread title and topic is "The LOGIC as to why gay marriage should be ILLEGAL" I fail to see the relevance of your contribution (unless you are pleading for a Christian theocracy).

On another note, there isn´t a single example in the bible of someone eating spaghetti, driving a car or even only riding a bicycle.
So what again is the conclusion a Christian is to draw from the fact that something isn´t mentioned in the bible?
 
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Sojourner1

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Since the thread title and topic is "The LOGIC as to why gay marriage should be ILLEGAL" I fail to see the relevance of your contribution (unless you are pleading for a Christian theocracy).

On another note, there isn´t a single example in the bible of someone eating spaghetti, driving a car or even only riding a bicycle.
So what again is the conclusion a Christian is to draw from the fact that something isn´t mentioned in the bible?

I was addressing the post made before mine discussing how marriage in the Bible isn't always one many and one woman, the argument somehow making same-sex marriage legitimate because marriage wasn't always one man and one woman. Sorry that I failed to specifically address the OP. If marriage between members of the same sex was condoned by God you would think there would be one example of it in the Bible. Marriage was ordained by God and is discussed quite a bit throughout scripture. Placing marriage on the same level as eating spaghetti and riding a bike is a bit of a stretch.
 
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pgp_protector

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I was addressing the post made before mine discussing how marriage in the Bible isn't always one many and one woman, the argument somehow making same-sex marriage legitimate because marriage wasn't always one man and one woman. Sorry that I failed to specifically address the OP. If marriage between members of the same sex was condoned by God you would think there would be one example of it in the Bible. Marriage was ordained by God and is discussed quite a bit throughout scripture. Placing marriage on the same level as eating spaghetti and riding a bike is a bit of a stretch.

So are there examples of Approved Interracial Marriages in the Bible ?
 
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CaDan

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I was addressing the post made before mine discussing how marriage in the Bible isn't always one many and one woman, the argument somehow making same-sex marriage legitimate because marriage wasn't always one man and one woman. Sorry that I failed to specifically address the OP. If marriage between members of the same sex was condoned by God you would think there would be one example of it in the Bible. Marriage was ordained by God and is discussed quite a bit throughout scripture. Placing marriage on the same level as eating spaghetti and riding a bike is a bit of a stretch.

What do you care what non-Christians do amongst themselves?

By the way, where are spaghetti eating and bicycle riding discussed in the Bible? Seems to me that by your rubric, both are sinful.

This is a fun game.
 
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quatona

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I was addressing the post made before mine discussing how marriage in the Bible isn't always one many and one woman, the argument somehow making same-sex marriage legitimate because marriage wasn't always one man and one woman. Sorry that I failed to specifically address the OP.
I just don´t like it when two completely different concepts (legal marriage and religious marriage) can´t be kept apart in discussions.

If marriage between members of the same sex was condoned by God you would think there would be one example of it in the Bible.
No, I wouldn´t think so. If we were conclude that the things not explicitly mentioned in the bible are therefore not condoned by god, we would have to stop doing countless things.
Marriage was ordained by God and is discussed quite a bit throughout scripture.
Exactly the point: heterosexual marriage is discussed, homosexual marriage isn´t.
Placing marriage on the same level as eating spaghetti and riding a bike is a bit of a stretch.
Don´t put words in my mouth. I didn´t place marriage and spaghetti eating on the same level. It´s the implication of your argument that because god doesn´t mention something in the bible it is therefore wrong. I simply pointed out the simple fact that gay marriage and spaghetti have in common that biblegod doesn´t mention them.
Which actually isn´t much of a surprise: since spaghetti, gay marriage, cars, bicycles, interracial marriage, public health care, organ transplants and cannabis weren´t part of the culture of the bible writers I wouldn´t expect them to address them.
 
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David Brider

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I make no secret of the fact that I dislike the act of homosexuality. I find it extremely repuslive.

Okay...two things, Firstly, homosexuality isn't an "act". It's a sexual orientation. That is, it's a way of describing - in fairly broad terms - who a person is likely to be physically and romantically attracted to. "Homosexuality" is a tendency to be physically and romantically attracted to people of the same gender as oneself.

I suspect that what you mean by "the act of homosexuality" is actually "same-gender" sex. Calling it "the act of homosexuality" is a bit of a misnomer, because not all homosexuals are sexually active, not all homosexuals have ever been sexually active, and not all who engage in same-gender sex are necessarily homosexual - I suspect that many are bisexual, and there are probably more than a few who are heterosexual and "experimenting".

So, secondly...if same-gender sex upsets you so much, then the solution is simple - don't think about it. I read a report of a survey recently which stated that in the UK, couples have sex on average 150 times a year. That's less than once every two days. Sure, some people are going to be on extremes of that - some might never have sex, whilst others might be highly active. But really, if same-gender sex bothers you that much, then just think about what same-gender couples are doing the rest of the time when they're not actually having sex - sleeping and working and eating and watching TV and reading books and listening to music and going to the theatre and the cinema and putting out the rubbish and going to church or mosque or synagogue or whatever and generally being part of the communities where they live, just like you and I.

However, its not my personal dislike that makes homosexuality unnatural...

Nobody knows for absolute certain why it is that some people are homosexual. There are, broadly speaking, three theories; one is that people are somehow born with their sexual orientation hardwired into them from birth, and that at puberty they find out for themselves that they're (most likely) heterosexual, or possibly homosexual or bisexual. Another theory is that it's to do with one's upbringing and cultural background, and again people find out their sexual orientation during puberty. A third theory is that people choose for themselves whether to be heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.

Honestly, I think the third theory can be most easily ruled out. Most homosexuals I know (with a couple of exceptions) are quite adamant that they didn't choose to be attracted to people of the same gender as themselves, rather they found out during puberty, although some have also said that they "felt different" during their early years. And to be honest, although homophobia is less prevalent now than it was, say, 20 - 30 years ago, I can't for one moment imagine that anyone would deliberately choose to be homosexual; I certainly can't imagine anyone making that choice if they were growing up in a household with particularly homophobic parents. It doesn't really make sense. Surely it would be easier for people in such situations to simply go with the flow?

The same argument, I think, would go against the "background culture" argument - how on earth could someone growing up in a homophobic family, or in a culture which decides (as British culture did in the past) that homosexuality should be either illegal at worst, or a legitimate target of ridicule at best, end up becoming homosexual? That would go completely against their cultural upbringing, and yet nevertheless many people growing up in such backgrounds have turned out to be gay.

The possibility we're left with, then, is that - despite your personal dislike of "the act of homosexuality" - some people are born gay. That homosexuality, as a sexual orientation at least, is in fact perfectly natural.

...its the fact that depending what you believe in (nature or God), life has been designed to come into the world via male sperm and a female egg (this is natural)

This is indeed perfectly natural. It's not, however, an argument against homosexuality being natural. The fact that most people are heterosexual, and pair off with people of the opposite gender to themselves, and that biologically if they are sexually active they can produce children, doesn't rule out that some people are homosexual, and that they may well pair off with people of the same gender as themselves. The fact that such a pairing will not naturally produce offspring doesn't invalidate the sexual orientation that has led to that pairing.

it then follows that its natural for the male who conceiverd the child and the female whose egg was conceived would then raise their own child, as its technically part of them - again completely natural.

Yes, completely natural, although again it doesn't represent an argument against homosexuality. If anything, it seems to be an argument against adoption (unnatural, as it involves a child being raised by people other than its natural parents) and step-parenting (a child being raised by one of its natural parents and one other person), and possibly against couples who choose to conceive a child through artificial means and are therefore bringing up a child who is not naturally their child.

When homosexuals fight for gay marriage (and then illogically they also seem to fight for the right to adopt children), they are actually fighting against one of the pillars and foudnations of stable society across the earth - the family unit (as it is in nature, mother and father and children)

No, same-gender couples fighting for the right to get married is not a fight against the family unit - it's a fight to be accepted as a family unit. If same-gender couples were fighting to destroy the family unit or opposite-gender marriage, your position would make more sense, but it should be fairly obvious that that's not what they're trying to do.

David.
 
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Beanieboy

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I was addressing the post made before mine discussing how marriage in the Bible isn't always one many and one woman, the argument somehow making same-sex marriage legitimate because marriage wasn't always one man and one woman. Sorry that I failed to specifically address the OP. If marriage between members of the same sex was condoned by God you would think there would be one example of it in the Bible. Marriage was ordained by God and is discussed quite a bit throughout scripture. Placing marriage on the same level as eating spaghetti and riding a bike is a bit of a stretch.

People saw homosexuality as a sex act, not as people of the same sex being actually attracted to one another.

The word homosexual wasn't coined until the 18th century, and was thought to be a mental illness until 1973.

However, you then ask me to show you a place where people 2000 years prior understand and acknowledge the existence of homosexuality, a word not yet coined, nor even a concept understood?

That follows exactly the same logic of saying, "Show me a place where there is someone riding a bike" since bikes, or even the concept of such a thing, existed.

Women were seen as property when the bible was written. Women were forbidden to speak in the temple, but told to remain quiet and ask their husbands when they got home.

Do you live by that still, too, with the thinking of men from 2000 years ago?

Or do you pick and choose what isn't there (no one eating spaghetti, so spaghetti is EVIL, women should never speak in church, because Paul (God) says so), or do you simply enjoy tying burdens on the back, not only of gay christians, but gays that don't even follow your religion, nor, understandably, would want anything to do with it, and make your bible a law book that burdens others?

In the meantime, sit back, break the laws of Leviticus all you want, enjoy heterosexual marriage privileges that you refuse to extend to gay couples, and prepare for Judgement Day, when you are held by the standard that you judge others.
 
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