The Lie: Serpent seed Doctrine

[mmksparbud]

I believe Jesus Christ is the source of eternal life, not a literal tree.

He is the source the creator--as such He created us to require the tree of life to continue living--

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

[mmksparbud]

true ... and a door is not always a door (John 10:9)

So then context should determine the meaning.

 

[creslaw]

So then context should determine the meaning.

In the context of Genesis 1-4, it seems clear to me that 'the tree of the knowledge of good & evil' and 'the tree of life' are metaphors ... which would make the 'fruit' a metaphor ... as well as the 'eating' of the fruit ... especially when the consequences of eating the fruit are considered.

 

[mmksparbud]

In the context of Genesis 1-4, it seems clear to me that 'the tree of the knowledge of good & evil' and 'the tree of life' are metaphors ... which would make the 'fruit' a metaphor ... as well as the 'eating' of the fruit ... especially when the consequences of eating the fruit are considered.

You have to consider then that the whole gook of Genesis is a metaphor then? Or do you just read certain verses or chapters as metaphors --if so how to you decide which is which?

 

[creslaw]

You have to consider then that the whole gook of Genesis is a metaphor then? Or do you just read certain verses or chapters as metaphors --if so how to you decide which is which?

As with any chapter in the Bible, and as you said, context is very important.

I always suggest people start by reading everything the Bible says about 'the tree of life'

 

[mmksparbud]

As with any chapter in the Bible, and as you said, context is very important.

I always suggest people start by reading everything the Bible says about 'the tree of life'

Don't see any reason to view the story in Genesis as metaphorical. I do see where other verses use the tree of life as a metaphor for that particular verse in order to convey a particular message.

 

[creslaw]

Don't see any reason to view the story in Genesis as metaphorical. I do see where other verses use the tree of life as a metaphor for that particular verse in order to convey a particular message.

Ok, then stay with that if feels right for you.
I am not able to accept that eating a literal fruit could make one live forever (Genesis 3:22).
I am also persuaded by all the consequences of the 'eating' that it was not a literal tree either (Genesis 3:7, Genesis 3:16)

I also think Genesis 3:15 needs to be explained in way that sensibly relates to what happened in Eden and for the world in general.

This is not a salvation issue from my perspective so I am not too critical of other people's pov's.

 

[Rescued One]

I should say that I do not agree with anything said in that paragraph.

Well, I figured you had already come to your own conclusion.

Psalm 34
8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 119
103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

 

[creslaw]

Well, I figured you had already come to your own conclusion.

Psalm 34
8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 119
103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

It is these portions that I particularly do not condone in any way:

It is a primary doctrinal resource for those who want to use Scriptures to justify racial prejudice.

anyone who disagrees with it is accused of being a son of the serpent.

 

[2tim_215]

I guess the word "eat" never means "eat" and is always used as a metaphor.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Thank you, Daniel Marsh.

"The serpent seed doctrine is a belief based on poor biblical interpretation and superstition. It is a primary doctrinal resource for those who want to use Scriptures to justify racial prejudice. The serpent seed doctrine is also closely related to other erroneous beliefs such as the Christian Identity Movement and the Kenite doctrine. Like many false beliefs, it has a built-in defense mechanism; that is, anyone who disagrees with it is accused of being a son of the serpent. One of the most unfortunate problems with the serpent seed doctrine is that it so heavily relies on prejudice and warped biblical interpretation that it can be very difficult to discuss rationally."
What is the Serpent Seed doctrine?

1 John 2:8-11 King James Version (KJV)
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Those doctrines of hate, put them outside of what it means to be a Christian!!!

Luke 10:25-37 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I guess the word "eat" never means "eat" and is always used as a metaphor.

So, what will the non-literalists say this verse means?

1 Samuel 14:43
Then Saul said to Jonathan, Tell me what thou hast done. And Jonathan told him, and said, I did but taste a little honey with the end of the rod that was in mine hand, and, lo, I must die.

John 18:28
Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

Luke 24:43
And he took it, and did eat before them.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

John 6:50
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

I would agree from context that eat is not literal here. How do they see from context that the other uses of eat are literal or not literal?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Ok, then stay with that if feels right for you.
I am not able to accept that eating a literal fruit could make one live forever (Genesis 3:22).
I am also persuaded by all the consequences of the 'eating' that it was not a literal tree either (Genesis 3:7, Genesis 3:16)

I also think Genesis 3:15 needs to be explained in way that sensibly relates to what happened in Eden and for the world in general.

This is not a salvation issue from my perspective so I am not too critical of other people's pov's.

Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the treeof life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Why is these verses call it a tree of life?

 

[creslaw]

Those doctrines of hate, put them outside of what it means to be a Christian!!!

I hope I can be judged by what I say and not what others say.

 

[creslaw]

I guess the word "eat" never means "eat" and is always used as a metaphor.

Now you know I did not say that.

 

[2tim_215]

Now you know I did not say that.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. The word "eat" (akal in the Hebrew) occurs 604 times in the Old Testament. How do you determine that its being used as metaphor in genesis and is not being used to mean just plain "eat"? You really don't have any legitimate reason for claiming that it means sex (other than Arnold Murray's or Branham's false teachings) which I believe are quite dangerous.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I hope I can be judged by what I say and not what others say.

With all respect, those doctrines causes one to act out with racism which is based on hate.

Who today would those false teachers say are "children of the Devil"?

"
William Branham's KKK connection
Roy E. Davis was William Branham's first pastor. He was also a member of the KKK. One of the doctrines of the KKK is Serpent Seed. It justified racial hatred and abuse, as well as the oppression of women. William Branham learned this doctrine from Roy Davis, and it was enforced in his family by his mother-in-law."The Serpent's Seed - BelieveTheSign

Acts 17:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Christian Identity - Wikipedia

"Murray also subscribed to the Christian Identity Movement, which teaches the British are the real descendants of the ancient Israelites. This movement has been the foundation, fuel, and ammunition for a great deal of racial bigotry. Murray denounced interracial marriages, an unbiblical position that itself wavers on the edge of racism.

In addition to doctrinal errors, Arnold Murray also demonstrated violent personality traits incompatible with the position of church leader. His lack of compassion and condescending references to those who disagree with him were the most noticeable sign of his instability. Christians should be wary of anyone who acts as Arnold Murray did and should avoid any teacher who subscribes to the unbiblical views of Shepherd’s Chapel."
Are the teachings of Arnold Murray and Shepherd’s Chapel biblical?

"
Arnold Murray also promotes the literature of other Anglo‐Israelism teachers. The Shepherd’s Chapel Book List, for instance, offers materials by E. Raymond Capt and J. H. Allen.

The Serpent Seed Doctrine and the Kenites

Another central teaching of Arnold Murray is the serpent seed doctrine. According to Murray, Eve had sex with the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. In 2 Corinthians 11:3, Murray uses the word “beguiled” to mean “wholly seduced.” Hence, Murray claims the Serpent sexually seduced Eve who then became pregnant with Cain; the devil’s literal offspring. Murray asserts that the offspring of Cain are called the “Kenites.”"
http://www.equip.org/article/arnold-murray-and-the-shepherds-chapel/

 

[2tim_215]

With all respect, those doctrines causes one to act out with racism which is based on hate.

Who today would those false teachers say are "children of the Devil"?

"
William Branham's KKK connection
Roy E. Davis was William Branham's first pastor. He was also a member of the KKK. One of the doctrines of the KKK is Serpent Seed. It justified racial hatred and abuse, as well as the oppression of women. William Branham learned this doctrine from Roy Davis, and it was enforced in his family by his mother-in-law."The Serpent's Seed - BelieveTheSign

Acts 17:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Christian Identity - Wikipedia

"Murray also subscribed to the Christian Identity Movement, which teaches the British are the real descendants of the ancient Israelites. This movement has been the foundation, fuel, and ammunition for a great deal of racial bigotry. Murray denounced interracial marriages, an unbiblical position that itself wavers on the edge of racism.

In addition to doctrinal errors, Arnold Murray also demonstrated violent personality traits incompatible with the position of church leader. His lack of compassion and condescending references to those who disagree with him were the most noticeable sign of his instability. Christians should be wary of anyone who acts as Arnold Murray did and should avoid any teacher who subscribes to the unbiblical views of Shepherd’s Chapel."
Are the teachings of Arnold Murray and Shepherd’s Chapel biblical?

"
Arnold Murray also promotes the literature of other Anglo‐Israelism teachers. The Shepherd’s Chapel Book List, for instance, offers materials by E. Raymond Capt and J. H. Allen.

The Serpent Seed Doctrine and the Kenites

Another central teaching of Arnold Murray is the serpent seed doctrine. According to Murray, Eve had sex with the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. In 2 Corinthians 11:3, Murray uses the word “beguiled” to mean “wholly seduced.” Hence, Murray claims the Serpent sexually seduced Eve who then became pregnant with Cain; the devil’s literal offspring. Murray asserts that the offspring of Cain are called the “Kenites.”"
http://www.equip.org/article/arnold-murray-and-the-shepherds-chapel/

Good info. Wasn't aware that he preached against interracial marriage which is actually Biblical in a sense which was for Jews of the Old Testament to not intermingle with non-Jews which might be considered to be racist to some although it wasn't. You could also consider that same in the New Testament when we are told as believers to not be "unequally yoked".

The purpose behind this was that God did not want His people to be corrupted by the ways of the non-believer by intermingling with them or even marrying them. Twisting these scriptures was just a way to justify their Serpent Seed doctrine and their racist ideas.

 

[mmksparbud]

Good info. Wasn't aware that he preached against interracial marriage which is actually Biblical in a sense which was for Jews of the Old Testament to not intermingle with non-Jews which might be considered to be racist to some although it wasn't. You could also consider that same in the New Testament when we are told as believers to not be "unequally yoked".

The purpose behind this was that God did not want His people to be corrupted by the ways of the non-believer by intermingling with them or even marrying them. Twisting these scriptures was just a way to justify their Serpent Seed doctrine and their racist ideas.

As Moses was married to an Ethiopian---she was black.