The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[jonnox777]

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternal-security.htm

 

[-57]

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternal-security.htm

I had to laugh at the web site. Seriously.

The big scripture.....But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

That scripture is often plucked from Matt 24:13.

3 questions you need to ask.
1)Endures what?
2)The end of what?
3)Saved from what?

Those 3 questions must be answered within the context of the surrounding scripture.

 

[drstevej]

"whom he justified, them he also glorified." Romans 8:30
OJSG
Once Justified Surely Glorified.

 

[-57]

John 10;29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[SarahsKnight]

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternal-security.htm

Oh, yeah, because Dan Corner's word would definitely be the end all be all on a Biblical subject.

Why are there so many people here lately so seemingly desperate to disprove OSAS, anyway? Why is anyone who disagrees with it so sure of themselves that everyone who believes in eternal security are just looking for an excuse to sin?

 

[-57]

Oh, yeah, because Dan Corner's word would definitely be the end all be all on a Biblical subject.

Why are there so many people here lately so seemingly desperate to disprove OSAS, anyway? Why is anyone who disagrees with it so sure of themselves that everyone who believes in eternal security are just looking for an excuse to sin?

The irony with it all is that if you can lose your salvation...YOU ALREADY HAVE.

 

[Albion]

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternal-security.htm

That was a lot to wade through, and I admit that I didn't read it all. What I did notice, however, was that the claims made against OSAS didn't appear to be substantiated. There were warnings against people who supposedly were OSAS, but that was about it.

I did, however, find included there a link to Jimmy Swaggart as an example of someone who teaches wrongly, but when you read his own words, he refutes the main claim made right up front by the author of the website, Dan Corner, when he describes what he says believers in OSAS supposedly believe.

 

[SarahsKnight]

The irony with it all is that if you can lose your salvation...YOU ALREADY HAVE.

At least according to Dan Corner, from what I recall when I browsed all through his evangelicaloutreach site a few years ago, concerned about OSAS being a false doctrine. I remember that dude mentioning at least once if not being insistent on it that pretty much any one sin you commit after being saved will automatically put you back into unsaved status, so unless you get it right with God before dying afterward, then you're screwed. ... And I call complete and utter BS on that. There's taking committing sin too lightly and not caring what God thinks, and then there's just being paranoid about your status as God's child.

 

[-57]

At least according to Dan Corner, from what I recall when I browsed all through his evangelicaloutreach site a few years ago, concerned about OSAS being a false doctrine. I remember that dude mentioning at least once if not being insistent on it that pretty much any one sin you commit after being saved will automatically put you back into unsaved status, so unless you get it right with God before dying afterward, then you're screwed. ... And I call complete and utter BS on that. There's taking committing sin too lightly and not caring what God thinks, and then there's just being paranoid about your status as God's child.

It would be interesting to see what Dan Corners view on salvation is. My guess, and I could be wrong is that it is works/lifestyle based rather than grace.
It's obvious that maintaining salvation isn't grace based but rather "lifestyle" based.

I think Dan's site should be a warning to those who think they can sin at will, and do sin at will... with no repercussion...might not be saved in the first place.

 

[Doveaman]

I had to laugh at the web site. Seriously.

The big scripture.....But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

That scripture is often plucked from Matt 24:13.

3 questions you need to ask.
1)Endures what?
2)The end of what?
3)Saved from what?

Those 3 questions must be answered within the context of the surrounding scripture.

Okay.

1)Endures what?

Endure in the Christian walk and not backslide.

2)The end of what?

The end of this present age of human government before God's government is established.

3)Saved from what?

Saved from the penalty of sin, which is death in the fires of hell.

The one who endures in the Christian walk until God's government is established on earth will be saved from the death penalty of sin.

Now what?

 

[-57]

Okay.
Endure in the Christian walk and not backslide.
The end of this present age of human government before God's government is established.
Saved from the penalty of sin, which is death in the fires of hell.

The one who endures in the Christian walk until God's government is established on earth will be saved from the death penalty of sin.

Now what?

Doveaman, Where is that found in the context of Matt 24?

 

[rockytopva]

I grew up Baptist. It's amazing thing to see them teach the doctrine, and then shock and amazement when they find those whom they had trust in sin!

 

[Albion]

I grew up Baptist. It's amazing thing to see them teach the doctrine, and then shock and amazement when they find those whom they had trust in sin!

But, frankly, I think that this is more of an indictment of those who think the saved will necessarily become sinless than those who believe in the Perseverance of the Saints. And those are not identical concepts.

 

[-57]

I grew up Baptist. It's amazing thing to see them teach the doctrine, and then shock and amazement when they find those whom they had trust in sin!

All christians still sin.

 

[rockytopva]

All christians still sin.

The girls with families in my Baptist church would sneak off and smoke dope. There was a single girl who did not have family in the church by the name of Teresa. The girls at our church thought it cool to invite Teresa over and she did not go for the dope and told the church elders on them. It was such a shock to the church that they got rid of a good pastor over it. They then get this ultra fundamentalist time guy and the next thing you know the church is doing very poorly.

 

[Doveaman]

Doveaman, Where is that found in the context of Matt 24?

It is found in the context of the Bible.

You are not going to see it if you keep cherry-picking the verses.

Read your Bible.

 

[Albion]

Not that I care personally, but you might just as well have written "I don't know" as to stick with that answer.

 

[Doveaman]

Okay here is the context.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.” – (Matt 24:9-13).

It is within the context of Christians being persecuted, betrayed and killed for their faith, and many people being deceived, and becoming increasing lawless and loveless.

Jesus is encouraging His followers not to be like those many people who are being deceived and becoming increasingly lawless and loveless. He is encouraging His followers to remain faithful to Him, even unto death, despite their difficult conditions because He will save them in the end at His second coming.

 

[Doveaman]

Not that I care personally, but you might just as well have written "I don't know" as to stick with that answer.

But I do know, so why suggest that I write a lie?

 

[havevisions]

I think it is prudent to carefully warn all Christians to be very careful how they regard the issue of sin.
Yes, we all sin, there are sins of the flesh, of the mind, premeditated sins, sins of omission, sins of disobedience, breaking a commandment, etc
I think the question is: Does one lead a “lifestyle” of sin. In other words, have they grown so accustomed to perhaps some secret sin, or private sin, or sin “in the closet” so much that their conscience is no longer bothered by it. After all, there are sins that “sneak up” on us, and are what the bible refers to as “sins that so easily beset us”. So a Christian has to be constantly on his/her guard and day by day go forth with the spiritual weapons of breastplate of righteousness, helmut of salvation, etc
Paul wrote in Hebrews about the new covenant versus the old covenant. In the old covenant, it took 2 or 3 witnesses to determine if someone disobeyed the Law of Moses, and if found guilty, the punishment could be death. “Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?…” Heb 10:28
For a Christian our lives do not belong to us, really. We live to glorify God. Paul said in Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me."
Therefore it is more serious when we sin now than it was in the old covenant. "For in the case of Christians who have once been enlightened and then have fallen away ... they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)
So if a person is truly saved, understand what has happened, feel the freedom and joy in Christ because of the fact that they are no long under condemnation, have the Holy Spirit to guide them and certainly make it clear to them when they do sin (Be sure your sins will find you out), I find it very difficult to believe that a true Christian will pre-meditatively sin IF they were saved to begin with. Humans are not dogs that return to their vomit.

Having said all of this, I believe that I have eternal security. I try (but don't always succeed) to do what Bill Bright of Campus Crusade used to say. He called it "spiritual breathing" where a Christian takes the Holy Spirit with him every day, prays for God's wisdom, asks for forgiveness when mistakes are made, agrees with God not to engage in that activity again, etc. (i.e.: stay "in tune" with God)

So I don't agree with all the article, but some of it. The emphasis on OSAS should be the OS - was that person truly saved? And that is a very difficult determination to make (and shouldn't be made very often, if ever, except by God)