The Laws of the Universe

[Doveaman]

So when a train passes by you, sounding it's horn, and the pitch drops due to Doppler shift, the train's movement is imaginary. I mean, it would have to be, if the expansion of the universe is imaginary.

Question I've been asking crea-... I mean Hovindists a lot lately is why you trust a what a book that God told people to write says about creation over what God created himself. Why is that?

Why do you trust in one form of evidence above another even though they all appear the same?

Doppler redshift, Intrinsic redshift, Tired light redshift, take your pick. Why choose one and ignore the others?

 

[Delphiki]

What is created far away simply does not obey man's prison rules.

I'm starting to understand how your mind works now. Rather than the stereotypical God-of-the-gaps, you subscribe to a more different-state-of-dads-gaps-in-knowledge. That's probably why a lot of science makes no sense to you.

 

[Nostromo]

Why do you trust in one form of evidence above another even though they all appear the same?

Doppler redshift, Intrinsic redshift, Tired light redshift, take your pick. Why choose one and ignore the others?

A few reasons for the latter here: Errors in Tired Light Cosmology

 

[SharpSolaris]

That's what you think. Take a star...say V838 Mon in the unicorn constellation. Now, please calculate the gravitational constant there!!??

V838 Mon did not interact. To calculate the gravitational constant we need have 2 objects that interact. To do we need to know their masses. I am don't calculations it.

Pathetic. A religious view of all things based on our laws and light, that led you to believe in expansion.. Then you reverse this imaginary expansion, till you fit the universe in something smaller than a snot. Wow. Impressive.

Only part of the universe, which can be observed from Earth.

Howso? I beg to differ.

For example, the gravitational force affects pressure. And greater pressure - greater the coordination number of oxygen in the formed silicates. Respectively greater - density of silicates.

 

[dad]

I'm starting to understand how your mind works now. Rather than the stereotypical God-of-the-gaps, you subscribe to a more different-state-of-dads-gaps-in-knowledge. That's probably why a lot of science makes no sense to you.

Would that be real science or same state past and future so called science?

 

[dad]

V838 Mon did not interact. To calculate the gravitational constant we need have 2 objects that interact. To do we need to know their masses. I am don't calculations it.

So, now you retreat to only select stars being subject to your claims...ok. Let's select one then


Can you do your calculations on this spiral or star? Something seems to be interacting with something here.. ?


"What created the strange spiral structure on the left? No one is sure, although it is likely related to a star in a binary star system entering the planetary nebula phase, when its outer atmosphere is ejected. The huge spiral spans about a third of a light year across and, winding four or five complete turns, has a regularity that is without precedent. Given the expansion rate of the spiral gas, a new layer must appear about every 800 years, a close match to the time it takes for the two stars to orbit each other. The star system that created it is most commonly known as LL Pegasi, but also AFGL 3068. The unusual structure itself has been cataloged as IRAS 23166+1655. The above image was taken in near-infrared light by the Hubble Space Telescope. Why the spiral glows is itself a mystery, with a leading hypothesis being illumination by light reflected from nearby stars. "

APOD: 2010 September 14 - An Extraordinary Spiral from LL Pegasi

Only part of the universe, which can be observed from Earth.

So you admit doing it to all the observable universe. Fine.

For example, the gravitational force affects pressure. And greater pressure - greater the coordination number of oxygen in the formed silicates. Respectively greater - density of silicates.

Ah, you mean present state rocks on earth!..Ok...so? Would not some relation be expected?

 

[Tiberius]

I have a few questions for you, Dad...

You claim that in the past the universe was in a different state, and this altered state prevented radioactive decay (hence radiometric dating is not reliable during this time). How then do you explain things that indicate that the decay has been going on for millions of years if the process could only have occurred during the last few thousand years? Also, what mechanism could have prevented radioactive decay?

Also, given that we know for a fact that the theory of plate tectonics occurs (the movement of a few centimeters a year can be measured with very accurate GPS devices) and given that we know for a fact that continents that are widely separated today were once joined together (by the two continents having the same geology), we can use the known speed and direction of the continental plates combined with the distance to determine how long ago those land masses were joined together. How can you explain this while still maintaining your young universe?

 

[dad]

I have a few questions for you, Dad...

You claim that in the past the universe was in a different state, and this altered state prevented radioactive decay (hence radiometric dating is not reliable during this time). How then do you explain things that indicate that the decay has been going on for millions of years if the process could only have occurred during the last few thousand years? Also, what mechanism could have prevented radioactive decay?

Get present state decay off your brain when you talk of the past. Just forget about it. You seem to be trying to accommodate it in the former state! No.

Show us forthwith the things or even ONE thing that "...that indicate that the decay has been going on for millions of years "???????????????????

Also, given that we know for a fact that the theory of plate tectonics occurs (the movement of a few centimeters a year can be measured with very accurate GPS devices) and given that we know for a fact that continents that are widely separated today were once joined together (by the two continents having the same geology), we can use the known speed and direction of the continental plates combined with the distance to determine how long ago those land masses were joined together. How can you explain this while still maintaining your young universe?

Ha! No, the present little residual movements do not represent the separation event! The separation was rapid.

 

[Jazer]

I've made this point before, but one man, who knew the Bible well (albeit he was an SDA), stood up to Jim Jones and refused to go along with his teachings; and he left the Peoples Temple -- meaning It saved his life.

So it's every man for himself? Or we can not rely on man we can only rely on God and ourselves to save us?

 

[Jazer]

Also, given that we know for a fact that the theory of plate tectonics occurs (the movement of a few centimeters a year can be measured with very accurate GPS devices) and given that we know for a fact that continents that are widely separated today were once joined together (by the two continents having the same geology), we can use the known speed and direction of the continental plates combined with the distance to determine how long ago those land masses were joined together. How can you explain this while still maintaining your young universe?

What created plate tectonics? "Most scientists believe that the moon was formed from the ejected material after the Earth collided with a Mars-sized object. This ejected material coalesced into the moon that went into orbit around th Earth. This catastrophic collision occurred about 60 million years after Earth itself formed (about 4.3 billion years ago). This is determined by the radioisotope dating of moon rocks" Now, lets look at what the Bible says: 14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

If a Billion years was a day, then on the fourth day God made two great lights, the sun and the moon. So both Science and the Bible seem to agree about the creation of the moon and on what day it took place. On the forth day of the second week or 10 billion years from the beginning of creation. Or 4.3 billion years ago.

 

[Jazer]

The wizard creating humans from mud sounds like a much more plausible idea and the evidence supports it.

Yep, we come from "mud" and have a value of about $4.80.

65% Oxygen
18% Carbon
10% Hydrogen
3% Nitrogen
1.5% Calcium
1% Phosphorous
0.35% Potassium
0.25% Sulfur
0.15% Sodium
0.15% Chlorine
0.05% Magnesium
0.0004% Iron
0.00004% Iodine
​

Additionally our bodies contain traces of fluorine, silicon, manganese, zinc, copper, aluminum, and arsenic.

 

[Jazer]

What you fail to understand is that there is still plenty of evidence to support the Big Bang.

Actually the Big Bang is a Kabbalah teaching that was made popular by a Rabbi (Moses) around 1000 years ago. Somewhere along the way science found "plenty of evidence" to support what was a religious belief. (Edwin Hubble)

 

[Jazer]

When He changes stuff, it is planned, and a work of art.

Exactly, He knows the end from the beginning, He does not make stuff up as He goes along. Isa 46 10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done , saying , My counsel shall stand , and I will do all my pleasure"

 

[Jazer]

The fact that no trace of the books, nor of the archaeology or genetics of said people exists matters not to them.

There are Mormons who claim they have found Native Americans of Hebrew decent according to the DNA. So they feel what they believe is based on scientific evidence.

 

[Tiberius]

What created plate tectonics? "Most scientists believe that the moon was formed from the ejected material after the Earth collided with a Mars-sized object. This ejected material coalesced into the moon that went into orbit around th Earth. This catastrophic collision occurred about 60 million years after Earth itself formed (about 4.3 billion years ago). This is determined by the radioisotope dating of moon rocks" Now, lets look at what the Bible says: 14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

If a Billion years was a day, then on the fourth day God made two great lights, the sun and the moon. So both Science and the Bible seem to agree about the creation of the moon and on what day it took place. On the forth day of the second week or 10 billion years from the beginning of creation. Or 4.3 billion years ago.

First of all, I wasn't addressing this to you, I was addressing it to Dad who has a rather different idea of the age of the universe than you do.

Secondly, the sun has been around for a lot longer than the earth.

Thirdly, if a billion years is a day to God, then where are the first ten days mentioned in the Bible, because there were about ten billion years from the creation of the universe to the formation of the earth.

Fourthly, on a related note, how do you explain that Adam was created on day seix, God rested on Day Seven and then Adam and Eve were kicked out and died sometime after that? Did they live for several billion years?

 

[Tiberius]

Get present state decay off your brain when you talk of the past. Just forget about it. You seem to be trying to accommodate it in the former state! No.

*Sigh* Are you deliberately misreading what I'm saying?

You've said that radioactive decay has only been occurring for the last few thousand years, yes? Furthermore, you've said that during those last few thousand years, the radioactiuve decay has been occurring pretty much as we see it, yes?

So how can an object have what APPEARS to be several million years worth of radioactive decay if that decay has only been occuring for a few thousand years?

Show us forthwith the things or even ONE thing that "...that indicate that the decay has been going on for millions of years "???????????????????

I said that the decay APPEARS to have been going on for millions of years.

Ha! No, the present little residual movements do not represent the separation event! The separation was rapid.

lol, so the continents shot away at great speed, did they?

So let me ask you...

What was propelling them at such a speed? And what made them slow down?

 

[dad]

Exactly, He knows the end from the beginning, He does not make stuff up as He goes along. Isa 46 10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done , saying , My counsel shall stand , and I will do all my pleasure"

OK. I think we agree..?

 

[dad]

Secondly, the sun has been around for a lot longer than the earth.

Unprovable rubbish.

Thirdly, if a billion years is a day to God, then where are the first ten days mentioned in the Bible, because there were about ten billion years from the creation of the universe to the formation of the earth.

A day is a day...relax...

Fourthly, on a related note, how do you explain that Adam was created on day seix, God rested on Day Seven and then Adam and Eve were kicked out and died sometime after that? Did they live for several billion years?

Can you give chapter and verse what day of creation they got the boot?????

 

[dad]

*Sigh* Are you deliberately misreading what I'm saying?

You've said that radioactive decay has only been occurring for the last few thousand years, yes?

Likely.

Furthermore, you've said that during those last few thousand years, the radioactiuve decay has been occurring pretty much as we see it, yes?

Yes.

So how can an object have what APPEARS to be several million years worth of radioactive decay if that decay has only been occuring for a few thousand years?

Ha. It doesn't appear that way to anyone but those that assume decay existed! Certainly not to me.

I said that the decay APPEARS to have been going on for millions of years.

So? Not to me.

lol, so the continents shot away at great speed, did they?

Yes.

So let me ask you...

What was propelling them at such a speed? And what made them slow down?

What does it matter? The origin of the thing wasn't in this state.

 

[AV1611VET]

So it's every man for himself? Or we can not rely on man we can only rely on God and ourselves to save us?

What I meant was, it was his knowledge of the Bible that alerted him to the fact that Jones was a false prophet, and he left Peoples Temple.

Had he not left, chances are he would be dead right now.