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This gets my point all wrong. I don't think you understand. When scientists cannot physically go and preform tests on something, they make models. Then, they take the models and try and find how accurate the model is. When a scientist sees something they want to know about, like what the Sun made out of, they first ask themselves how it would be. A scientist would look at hydrogen and helium based off of the current model, which suggests and has suggested that the sun is made out of hydrogen and helium, and then he would go out and get the clearest reading he could. Scientists have known about contaminants that can get in the way of actually finding accurate spectroscope measurements, so we counteract that by getting as far out of the atmosphere as possible. I don't know if you know this, but in this day and age, we use the Hubble space telescope and other orbiting observatories, because they quite literally have nothing between their lens and their target.Here they are talking about Andromeda. So what we seem to have is spectral lines that are not normally able to be seen from earth. But if they go way up in a mountain, or some such places, they can see some. So how many other things can they NOT see?! What sort of incomplete picture did we used to get decades ago? What sort of incomplete picture do we now get, but maybe do not yet know??
I don't understand what you're saying fully here, but I think you are trying to imply the idea that even though material behaves similarly in deep space, predictable by the same methods we use on earth, it doesn't do a thing to your baseless hypothesis that everywhere is different from right now on earth.Nothing about hydrogen, or carbon, etc in space presents a problem that I can see. It is merely a material. How far away is it, and what else is there, and what forces are working there, and what time is woven in to the mix if any?
It doesn't have to be. Light already takes eight minutes to simply get to Earth, and the solar system is more than sixty times that in diameter. I believe you are also talking about the special theory of relativity, which is different from the general theory.Irrelevant. Our system is not deep space.
You might want to take a look at Omega Centauri before you insist that models are irrelevant.Example of a star we predict the movement of, and how we confirm it moved? Irrelevant. As above.
We don't have to be inside of the sun to understand how it works. I'm going to put this into language for a child: Modern science uses "detective skills" (deduction) to understand how things that are infeasible work. You seem to have gotten caught up on the idea of "IT MUST BE DIRECTLY SEEN TO EXIST/WORK THAT WAY" which is "baloney" and not necessary in science. It's helpful when it can work like that, but when can see something behave as it is predicted to behave every time they test it, they can conclude---Nonsense. We know little about the sun anyhow, have you ever been inside it?
Also recommend Hans Christian Anderson shows?? Name something on your show you can prove or support?Hi everyone,
Some months ago, I watched this fascinating documnentary about the history of cosmology.
Enjoy and it it blows away Dad's thetorical nothingness and his rubbishing of blue/red shift of distant galaxies.
Enjoy!
Everything and Nothing | Watch Free Documentary Online
Yes. History and bible tell of spirits among men and other differences in nature. Science doesn't know as you show by failing to even talk intelligently about what is known about the state and forces and laws of the far past.Care to back up your claims?
This gets my point all wrong. I don't think you understand. When scientists cannot physically go and preform tests on something, they make models. Then, they take the models and try and find how accurate the model is. When a scientist sees something they want to know about, like what the Sun made out of, they first ask themselves how it would be. A scientist would look at hydrogen and helium based off of the current model, which suggests and has suggested that the sun is made out of hydrogen and helium, and then he would go out and get the clearest reading he could.
Scientists have known about contaminants that can get in the way of actually finding accurate spectroscope measurements, so we counteract that by getting as far out of the atmosphere as possible. I don't know if you know this, but in this day and age, we use the Hubble space telescope and other orbiting observatories, because they quite literally have nothing between their lens and their target..
I don't understand what you're saying fully here, but I think you are trying to imply the idea that even though material behaves similarly in deep space, predictable by the same methods we use on earth,..
.
Not light from the core of the sun though?It doesn't have to be. Light already takes eight minutes to simply get to Earth, and the solar system is more than sixty times that in diameter. I believe you are also talking about the special theory of relativity, which is different from the general theory..
OK, what about it??You might want to take a look at Omega Centauri before you insist that models are irrelevant.
Haven't heard that one before.....I do hope you'll excuse me, my hard drive is failing. I'll be back to edit the rest of this
Also recommend Hans Christian Anderson shows?? Name something on your show you can prove or support?
Hubble, Herschl, Einstein, Newton, Gallileo, Digges. I ham sure you have heard of at least 4 of those names.
Its upto you to debunk this documentary. Rubbishing it does not debunk. You have to provide substance, otherwise debate is meaningless with you.
Tell me, did you watch it in full?
Hubble, Herschl, Einstein, Newton, Gallileo, Digges. I ham sure you have heard of at least 4 of those names.
Its upto you to debunk this documentary. Rubbishing it does not debunk. You have to provide substance, otherwise debate is meaningless with you.
Tell me, did you watch it in full?
Yes I clicked it. Raise a point from it and maybe I'll kick it.Though I doubt Dad even clicked it.
Yes I clicked it. Raise a point from it and maybe I'll kick it.
Yes. I have. They can't work. Better rethink. Try to support them if you dare.
Still struggling with that 'berden of evidence' concept?
I see the tactic he uses - throw out an outrageous and/or stupefying claim and wait for the countering arguments, then start the "gimme proofs".Well, you have to understand dad's line of thinking: No matter what the opposition uses as evidence, they have to prove that things in deep space and things in the deep past were exactly as they are now without using logic, inferences, and tests that work here. He's one of the extremely incredulous and skeptical theists... when it comes to things they disagree with. He is essentially asking for time travel or to travel to deep space. But knowing dad, even if we did those things, he'd claim that we changed along with the laws of the universe as we traveled into deep space or into the past.
If(when) I wanted to challenge a scientific concept/theory/hypothesis, the first thing I do is to learn all about it. How else are you going to falsify it? Does he get this? Perhaps he does, but its too much effort? Or he just can't let go of his favorite tactic, no matter how little success he has had with it.He also believes that the Bible is true and that it's science's job to provide evidence that the Bible is wrong and that science is correct. In other words, he thinks his assertions require no justification and the opposing view doesn't require to be falsified.
You couldn't anyhow. You would need to understand first. A bunch of religious sane state beliefs nonsense dressed as science. Ho hum.I'm not wasting my time explaining anything in those documentaries to you.
Pay attention...I glanced at it enough to see the usual garbage being offered in a story fashion. Not for anyone that isn't in your choir.If you're too lazy or bone idle to watch it, then that's your problem. Just don't claim something that the discoveries highlighted in them falsify, that's intelectually dishonest. Not that you care about being intelectually dishonest, infact, it seems as though it's a skill you've refined and turned into an art.
What is stupefying to you might be obvious basics to someone else. But unless you can support what you throw out, you may as well not toss anything.I see the tactic he uses - throw out an outrageous and/or stupefying claim and wait for the countering arguments, then start the "gimme proofs".
Nonsense. One learns what the theory is based on and is actually claiming. Once one realizes it is baloney one should not waste a lot of time pretending it can be falsified. Let's see you falsify a same state past that science uses as a foundation?? It ain't science, actually, even by their own inbred thinking standards.If(when) I wanted to challenge a scientific concept/theory/hypothesis, the first thing I do is to learn all about it. How else are you going to falsify it? Does he get this? Perhaps he does, but its too much effort? Or he just can't let go of his favorite tactic, no matter how little success he has had with it.
Can you remind us what post you think you shot anything with!?The entertainment comes after you've shot the legs out from under his argument, when he still attempts to trot it around like nothing has happened.
Don't you wish.dad, defeated.
You couldn't anyhow. You would need to understand first. A bunch of religious sane state beliefs nonsense dressed as science. Ho hum.
Pay attention...I glanced at it enough to see the usual garbage being offered in a story fashion. Not for anyone that isn't in your choir.
Seriously, if you can't pick a point to debate, don't bother pretending.
Watch it and refute ONE point from it, then I'll gladly comply by showing you how wrong you are.
No dodging, no word games, just refute one thing in that doco.
Don't offer movies. Especially third rate ones that are long in the story tooth, and short on support. Do you really think that in that mickey mouse movie there is any concept that is news to almost anyone here??Or at the very least, show me that you've watched it by explaining something from it. Just a brief summary, I'm not asking for a whole transcript.
I'd bet my left ball that you can't.
Watch it and refute ONE point from it, then I'll gladly comply by showing you how wrong you are.
No dodging, no word games, just refute one thing in that doco.
Or at the very least, show me that you've watched it by explaining something from it. Just a brief summary, I'm not asking for a whole transcript.
I'd bet my left ball that you can't.
But not potent enough to make a point. Why pretend your story video has any when you can't get it together here and now before us all, to talk details? When I offered distances to stars and the basis science uses as a point, you come back with family jewel nonsense. If the distance to stars is off red or blue shifts lose their meaning. Star composition and size lose their meaning. The big bang loses it's family jewels...dark matter becomes an unneeded fantasy, and etc etc etc. Your video starts to look more than ridiculous....It appears that your family jewels will be safe.
How about distance to stars? That is pretty basic in all cosmological models. Like to prove that the space we know is the space that goes all the way to any star?
Don't offer movies. Especially third rate ones that are long in the story tooth, and short on support. Do you really think that in that mickey mouse movie there is any concept that is news to almost anyone here??
Or are you used to playing with kids?
How about distance to stars? That is pretty basic in all cosmological models. Like to prove that the space we know is the space that goes all the way to any star?
And what's a first rate one? Expelled?Don't offer movies. Especially third rate ones that are long in the story tooth, and short on support. Do you really think that in that mickey mouse movie there is any concept that is news to almost anyone here??
Or are you used to playing with kids?
I see the tactic he uses - throw out an outrageous and/or stupefying claim and wait for the countering arguments, then start the "gimme proofs".
I would call Poe but I can't imagine someone keeping up a facade like that for so long. But I could be wrong.
If(when) I wanted to challenge a scientific concept/theory/hypothesis, the first thing I do is to learn all about it. How else are you going to falsify it? Does he get this? Perhaps he does, but its too much effort? Or he just can't let go of his favorite tactic, no matter how little success he has had with it.
The entertainment comes after you've shot the legs out from under his argument, when he still attempts to trot it around like nothing has happened.
dad, defeated.
Very true. Obviously.What is stupefying to you might be obvious basics to someone else.
Agreed - remember that 'burden of evidence' concept you were struggling with?But unless you can support what you throw out, you may as well not toss anything.
Just because you cannot falsify a scientific theory, it does not follow that it is not falsifiable.Nonsense. One learns what the theory is based on and is actually claiming. Once one realizes it is baloney one should not waste a lot of time pretending it can be falsified.
Your phrasing of that statement suggests that you do not understand what 'falsifiable' means in terms of scientific theory. It's up to you to falsify it. Not just throw mud.Let's see you falsify a same state past that science uses as a foundation??
And that would be the mud. Name calling does not cut it. You will need to do science to beat science.It ain't science, actually, even by their own inbred thinking standards.
I think that thread where you were positing that astronomical observations of relative velocities of galaxies could be falsified through comparisons to ghosts traveling at similar speeds can be found here.Can you remind us what post you think you shot anything with!?
More mud. Whatever.It does get pathetic, when denialism becomes delusional.
I don't believe in wishing. Do you?Don't you wish.
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