The Lawless One Being Revealed In Mankind

[HannibalFlavius]

You are launching off into some argument over the keeping of the Sabbath, using 2thess2 to support your view. But 2thess2 is talking about the son of perdition - which is tied to Judas, who is the only person in the bible to be called the son of perdition, besides the coming person in 2thess2.

Judas was not a Christian. He was a Jew. Judas was called the son of perdition in Jesus's prayers in John 17 as the son of perdition as he went out to betray Jesus. The son of perdition has to do with betrayal, and that he is Jew, who is not a Christian.

Doug

Doug?

What are you talking about saying that Judas was not a Christian, he was a Jew?

They were all Jews and Judas did follow Christ, He was a disciple of Christ Doug.

You say I am launching into the Sabbath and 2 Thessalonians to support my view?

Doug, I don't have a view on this, I have the facts on the antichrist.

The FACTS of the antichrist is the FACT that he comes to change the times and the seasons just as Antiochus came to do.

Changing the time and the seasons IS to change the Sabbaths and the ways of God.

Christians stand and tell you that they have changed the Sabbaths of God and they stand against keeping the laws of God.

You may have a view, But the facts of what the son of perdition does is the facts, and his job is to turn the children of Israel away from the law and away from the traditions in the Sabbath and the feasts, and these are the facts.

Now you would add YOUR view which is not at all fact, and you say it has to do with Judas.

You can see the son of perdition in Judas but not anyone else?

WE can see Peter talking with the tongue of Satan, but you don't think you can do the same?

You think that just these two have the ability to think, act, and speak of Satan?

I see people acting from Satan everyday Doug.

 

[Douggg]

This is what I'm talking about right here.....

This mentality and science being made about some Jew coming to turn the Jews away from their God.

Its beyond ridiculous bro, in so many ways, it is ridicurous.

It is ridiculous is that if what Isaiah 14 says of him. But it doesn't. He destroys his land and his people is that he persecutes the Jews - who will reject him when he reveals himself as the man of sin, by going into the temple and claiming to be God

This ridiculous science looking for a Jewish Anti-Christ that is going to make people receive a mark on their head for 666.

What science? It is not talking about science, but bible prophecy. Science is the study of the physical universe. I don't even know why you would choose that term.

The Antichrist goes through 4 stages to his career.

1. the little horn politician emerging out of the EU final form.
2. the Prince who shall, the perceived King Messiah of the Jews.
3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition
4. the Antichrist-beast of Revelation.

The gentile acts as if being marked between your eyes and receiving a mark on your right hand is some new thing in the world, when its in fact the oldest and well know tradition since the first Passover but it goes back even further than that.

But to the gentile who reads Revelation having no knowledge of Jewish tradition, thinks that Revelation is making up some new idea that has never been around before?

And you are claiming that people had 666 on their heads and right hand before. Please give a link or a bible passage.

The gentile reads about the son of perdition as if the idea is something brand new when in fact its been around forever.

That's why the gentile needs the Jew and the Jew needs the gentile.

It's a term that is only twice in the bible.

The Jew doesn't read the New Testament and the gentile can't read the New Testament.

The entire book is about God's traditions, rituals, feast days, Sabbaths, culture, covenants, and people.

Well, I have made over 4000 posts at Jewish (Judaism) sites arguing with them and learning about their beliefs... what makes you so knowledgeable?

But this you say about a Jew being an anti-Christ is ridiculous, insulting, completely wrong with nothing at all to back it up, but yet, there it is.

Must be some Jew huh?

I have scriptures indicating that he will be a Jew, and must be a Jew.

This furthers the cause against God's people and it is a shame to see anybody say it, but yet I have seen many people say this with no remorse.

But it is okay if he is a gentile?

Everyone who thinks this and teaches others to think it will indeed develop a view against the people of God and that view will strengthen and strengthen until it is Anti-Semitic, and it is already anti-Semitic in nature. Teach them to look at Jews as if they are Satan.

The Jews will reject the Antichrist as being their messiah when he reveals himself as the man of sin. The Jews will embrace the gospel of Salvation, Jesus as their King, Lord, and Savior during that time, so the view is hardly Anti-Semitic or Anti-Jew.

But God has blessed the Jews in these days and they will never be uprooted again, all who stand against them will fall.

God is blessing the Jews, even though right now they are in a state of unbelief. And of course, anyone who takes a stand against them being that chosen nation, and Israel in the phsyical sense is going against God. Opposing parts of their (Judaism's) theology, which has errors, is not going against God.

God is coming to strengthen the house of Judah first, but I wonder what many Christians will think when they see how God has anointed them.

They do not become Christians until after Gog/Magog, and after temporarily, in grave error, think the incognito Antichrist is their King Messiah.

They will more likely point saying,'' Look, signs and wonders.'' the devil is in them, they heal by the power of Satan.''

Its the same thing they said of Jesus, only the positions are reversed now.

No, that has nothing to do with 2thessalonians2. You are spinning off on some tangent without providing any scriptural basis for what you are saying.

Doug

 

[HannibalFlavius]

By Eddie Chumney
Hebraic Heritage

ANTIOCHUS IV DOES WICKEDLY AGAINST THE COVENANT
KJV Daniel 11:32 And such as do WICKEDLY AGAINST the COVENANT shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
THE COVENANT = Following Torah
DO WICKEDLY against THE COVENANT = Being ANTI-TORAH

THE ANTI-TORAH DECREES OF ANTIOCHUS IV
In order to try to make Hellenism and the Greek culture supreme, Antiochus IV issued DECREES AGAINST FOLLOWING the TORAH. These decrees consisted of:
#1) It was FORBIDDEN to keep the weekly Biblical Sabbath
#2) It was FORBIDDEN to celebrate the annual Biblical Festivals
#3) It was FORBIDDEN to circumcise your sons
#4) You were ENCOURAGED to eat pig and UNCLEAN animals
#5) You were ENCOURAGED to set up idols

FORBIDDEN TO FOLLOW TORAH
1 Maccabees 1:57: And whosoever was found with any the book of the testament, or if any committed to the law, the king's commandment was, that they should put him to death.

DECREE TO FOLLOW THE GREEK CULTURE
1 Maccabees 1:41 Moreover king Antiochus wrote to his whole kingdom, that all should be one people,
Today, there is a cry to win the battle against the war on terrorism. This battle cry and symbol of triumph is called, 'Freedom and democracy". Today, the 'idol' of freedom and democracy is worshipped ABOVE the Judeo-Christian values rooted in the Bible.

ACCEPTANCE OF THE GREEK CULTURE
1 Maccabees 1:42 And every one should leave his laws: so all the heathen agreed according to the commandment of the king.
1 Maccabees 1:43 Yea, many also of the Israelites consented to his religion, and sacrificed unto idols, and profaned the sabbath.
1 Maccabees 1:44 For the king had sent letters by messengers unto Jerusalem and the cities of Juda that they should follow the strange laws of the land,
Recently, the nation of France was voting on outlawing all forms of religious symbolic expression in schools. In the USA, the courts are ruling (the decrees of the king in the days of old) more and more that religious symbolic expression in public forums is "unconstitutional".

FORBIDDEN TO OBSERVE SABBATH AND FESTIVAL DAYS
1 Maccabees 1:45 And forbid burnt offerings, and sacrifice, and drink offerings, in the temple; and that they should PROFANE the SABBATHS and FESTIVAL DAYS:
1 Maccabees 1:46 And pollutethe sanctuary and holy people:

COMMANDS TO EAT UNCLEAN FOOD
1 Maccabees 1:47 Set up altars, and groves, and chapels of idols, and sacrifice swine's flesh, and UNCLEAN beasts:

FORBIDDEN TO CIRCUMCISE THEIR SONS
1 Maccabees 1:48 That they should also leave their CHILDREN UNCIRCUMCISED, and make their souls abominable with all manner of uncleanness and profanation:
1 Maccabees 1:60 At which time according to the commandment they PUT to DEATH certain WOMEN, that had CAUSED their CHILDREN to be CIRCUMCISED.
1 Maccabees 1:61 And they hanged the infants about their necks, and rifled their houses, and slew them that had circumcised them.

OUR FATHERS HAVE INHERITED LIES: CONSTANTINE CHRISTIANITY
KJV Jeremiah 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the GENTILES shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall SAY, Surely our fathers have INHERITED LIES, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
TRUTH = FOLLOWING TORAH

LIES = NOT FOLLOWING TORAH
In the book of Daniel, it was prophesied that Antiochus IV Epiphanes would do WICKEDLY against the COVENANT.
Once again, it entailed the following:
#1) It was FORBIDDEN to keep the weekly Biblical Sabbath
#2) It was FORBIDDEN to celebrate the annual Biblical Festivals
#3) It was FORBIDDEN to circumcise your sons
#4) You were ENCOURAGED to eat pig and UNCLEAN animals
#5) You were ENCOURAGED to set up idols

THE BELIEFS OF CONSTANTINE CHRISTIANITY

DON'T FOLLOW TORAH
Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED to NOT KEEP TORAH Constanatine Christianity says Yeshua is Messiah and His followers DON'T KEEP TORAH ("we're not under the law")
DON'T KEEP BIBLICAL SABBATH
Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED to NOT KEEP the WEELY SABBATH Constanatine Christianity says Yeshua is Messiah and DON'T KEEP BIBLICAL SABBATH

DON'T KEEP BIBLICAL ANNUAL FESTIVALS
Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED to NOT KEEP the ANNUAL FESTIVALS Constanatine Christianity says Yeshua is Messiah and DON'T KEEP the BIBLICAL ANNUAL FESTIVALS

DON'T CIRCUMCISE YOUR SONS
Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED to NOT CIRCUMCISE your sons Constanatine Christianity says Yeshua is Messiah and DON'T CIRCUMCISE your sons
EAT PIG AND OTHER UNCLEAN FOODS
Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED to EAT PIG and UNCLEAN FOODS Constanatine Christianity says Yeshua is Messiah and EAT PIG and other UNCLEAN FOODS

SET UP IDOLS FOR WORSHIP
Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED to SET UP IDOLS Constanatine Christianity says Yeshua is Messiah and:
1) Catholics erect statues of their "saints"
2) Catholics and Protestants set up an Asherah tree (Christmas tree) and put it in their house and churches

THE CHANGING OF TIMES AND TORAH COMMANDS
KJV Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws ...
1 Maccabees 1:49: To the end they might forget the law, and change all the ordinances.
Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED that you NOT follow the "times and seasons" of the Torah (weekly Sabbath and annual Festivals days) and other Torah commands.
Constanatine Christianity says Yeshua is Messiah and changed the sabbath and annual festival days given by Moses in the Torah.

FALSE WITNESS SAYS: MESSIAH CHANGED THE CUSTOMS OF MOSES

A FALSE WITNESS (Constantine Christianity) says that Messiah died on the tree and CHANGED THE CUSTOMS OF MOSES.
KJV Acts 6:13 And set up FALSE WITNESSES, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
KJV Acts 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall CHANGE the CUSTOMS which MOSES delivered us.

ANTIOCHUS IV DECREED AND CONSTANTINE CHRISTIANITY ACCEPTED
What Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED and what the book of Daniel calls "doing WICKEDLY against the COVENANT", Constantine Christianity has accepted as being TRUE FAITH of YHVH through Yeshua.
Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED DON'T FOLLOW TORAH.
Constantine Christianity later said: "WE ACCEPT". (We're not under the law).
The SPIRIT OF ANTI-TORAH which is also the SPIRIT OF ANTI-SEMITISM is ALREADY in CONSTANTINE CHRISTIANITY.

THE FAITHFUL REMNANT BELIEVE YESHUA IS MESSIAH AND KEEP TORAH
In the book of Revelation, the FAITHFUL REMNANT in the end of days are "Maccabees" (CLING TO TORAH).
KJV Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP the COMMANDMENTS of God, and the FAITH of Jesus.
ANTIOCHUS IV PERSUES THE TORAH LOVERS IN THE WILDERNESS

1 Maccabees 2:27: And Mattathias cried throughout the city with a loud voice, saying, Whosoever is zealous of the law, and maintaineth the covenant, let him follow me.
1 Maccabees 2:28: So he and his sons fled into the mountains, and left all that ever they had in the city.
1 Maccabees 2:29 Then many that sought after justice and judgment went down into the WILDERNESS, to DWELL there:

FALSE MESSIAH PERSUES THE FAITHFUL REMNANT IN THE WILDERNESS
KJV Revelation 12:6 And the woman FLED into the WILDERNESS, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
KJV Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to MAKE WAR with the REMNANT of her seed, which KEEP the COMMANDMENTS of God, and have the TESTIMONY of JESUS CHRIST.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

by Eddie Chumney
Hebraic Heritage Ministries Int'l
(PART 2 OF 2)

UNDERSTANDING THE EVENTS IN THE END OF DAYS
In order to understand the events associated with the end of days, you NEED to have understanding of the following items:

#1) There will be a struggle in the end of days where the world's system (Greco-Roman hellenistic) will seek to IMPOSE its ways and value system upon the people of YHVH

#2) There will be an end-time battle between the descendents of Jacob (house of Jacob) and the descendents of Esau (house of Esau)

#3) Joseph revealing himself to his brothers is prophetic of the restoration and reunification of both houses of Israel (Messianic Redemption)
Hanukkah prepares and educates you regarding the struggle and battle over the forces of Greco-Roman hellenistic viewpoint and values versus following the Torah of the Messiah.
ANTIOCHUS IV EPHIPHANES IS A TYPE OF THE FALSE MESSIAH
As explained in Part 1 of this teaching, Biblical history is prophetic.
The historical events associated with the rule of Antiochus IV Epiphanes is prophetic of the ways, mindset and actions of the future false messiah.

WHAT ARE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE FALSE MESSIAH?

MAIN CHARACTERISTIC

**** The false messiah doesn't follow Torah and advocates others to not follow Torah
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
"Our gathering together" unto him is NOT the pre-tribulation "rapture". It is the restoration and reunification of both houses of Israel (Ephraim and Judah) as described in Ezekiel 37:15-28.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
The "day of Messiah" is the MESSIANIC ERA.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
FALSE MESSIAH = MAN OF SIN = DOESN'T FOLLOW TORAH
What does it mean by "man of sin". It means that the false Messiah does NOT follow Torah.
KJV 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
THE MAJOR CHARACTERISTIC of the FALSE MESSIAH is that he DOESN'T FOLLOW TORAH and ENCOURAGES OTHERS to NOT follow Torah.

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The false messiah will equate himself to be as God. This is what Antiochus IV Epiphanes did.

ANTIOCHUS IV SEES HIMSELF ON PAR WITH GOD
KJV Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the GREAT HORN was BROKEN; and for it came up FOUR NOTABLE ONES toward the four winds of heaven.
KJV Daniel 8:9 And out of ONE of THEM came forth a LITTLE HORN, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
The "little horn" is Antiochus IV Epiphanes.
Epiphanes means 'God made manifest'. Antiochus IV viewed himself as being on par with God.
KJV Daniel 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
KJV Daniel 8:11 Yea, he MAGNIFIED HIMSELF even to the prince of the host ...

THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity <458> doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The false messiah is associated with the "mystery of iniquity". What is the meaning of the word, "iniquity" ???
458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah}  from 459; TDNT - AV - iniquity 12, unrighteousness 1, transgress the law
INIQUITY = Strong's 458 = Greek word 'Anomia' = Transgress the Torah
KJV 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law <458>.
TRANSGRESS THE TORAH = Strong's 458 = Greek word 'Anomia'
The "mystery of iniquity" is the spirit which will NOT follow Torah.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that WICKED be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

WHO ARE THE WICKED WHO ARE REVEALED?
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received NOT the LOVE of the TRUTH, that they might be saved.

WICKED = LOVE NOT THE TRUTH
KJV Psalm 119:150 They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law.
MISCHIEF = FAR FROM TORAH
OK, so the WICKED LOVE NOT the TRUTH? What is the TRUTH?

WHAT IS TRUTH?
KJV 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
KJV 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we KEEP his COMMANDMENTS.
KJV 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and KEEPETH NOT his COMMANDMENTS, is a liar, and the TRUTH is NOT in HIM.
So, those who follow the ways of the false Messiah love NOT the truth.
Those who follow Yeshua LOVE the truth.
KJV Psalm 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy TORAH is the TRUTH.
KJV Psalm 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy COMMANDMENTS are TRUTH.
KJV Psalm 119:44 So shall I KEEP thy LAW continually FOR EVER and EVER.
So, the WICKED who LOVE NOT THE TRUTH (Torah) follow after the ways of the false messiah.
Those that LOVE YESHUA, KEEP the TRUTH or the TORAH and LOVE to KEEP His COMMANDMENTS (which is TORAH).

BELIEVERS IN MESSIAH BELIEVE THE TRUTH
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH:
Contrary to the WICKED to LOVE NOT the truth (Torah), the TRUE followers of the Messiah are SANCTIFIED of the SPIRIT and BELIEVE in the TRUTH (follow Torah).
KJV John 17:17 SANCTIFY them through thy TRUTH: thy word is TRUTH.

THE RUACH HAKODESH (HOLY SPIRIT) IS OUR TEACHER OF TRUTH
KJV John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth ...
The RUACH HAKODESH (Holy Spirit) is the SPIRIT of TRUTH.
The RUACH HAKODESH (Holy Spirit) teaches the followers of Yeshua to FOLLOW TORAH.
Believers in the Messiah are given in the INDWELLING Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) to give us a HEART to FOLLOW TORAH.
KJV Ezekiel 36:26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put WITHIN YOU: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
KJV Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, and cause you to WALK in MY STATUTES, and ye shall KEEP my JUDGMENTS, and DO THEM.

 

[Interplanner]

Whose end times are we talking about?

 

[Striker427]

Do you believe that anyone could lose their salvation or walk in rebellion to the word of God?

Perdition
pe&#771;r-dish´un (&#945;&#787;&#960;&#969;&#769;&#955;&#949;&#953;&#945;, apo&#772;&#769;leia, “ruin” or “loss,” physical or eternal): The word “perdition” occurs in the English Bible 8 times (Joh_17:12; Phi_1:28; 2Th_2:3; 1Ti_6:9; Heb_10:39; 2Pe_3:7; Rev_17:11, Rev_17:18). In each of these cases it denotes the final state of ruin and punishment which forms the opposite to salvation. The verb apollu&#769;ein, from which the word is derived, has two meanings: (1) to lose; (2) to destroy. Both of these pass over to the noun, so that apo&#772;leia comes to signify: (1) loss; (2) ruin, destruction. The former occurs in Mat_26:8; Mar_14:4, the latter in the passages cited above. Both meanings had been adopted into the religious terminology of the Scriptures as early as the Septuagint. “To be lost” in the religious sense may mean “to be missing” and “to be ruined,” The former meaning attaches to it in the teaching of Jesus, who compares the lost sinner to the missing coin, the missing sheep, and makes him the object of a seeking activity (Mat_10:6; Mat_15:24; Mat_18:11; Luk_15:4, Luk_15:6, Luk_15:8, Luk_15:24, Luk_15:32; Luk_19:10). “To be lost” here signifies to have become estranged from God, to miss realizing the relations which man normally sustains toward Him. It is equivalent to what is theologically called “spiritual death.” This conception of “loss” enters also into the description of the eschatological fate of the sinner as assigned in the judgment (Luk_9:24; Luk_17:33), which is a loss of life. The other meaning of “ruin” and “destruction” describes the same thing from a different point of view. Apo&#772;leia being the opposite of so&#772;te&#772;ria, and so&#772;te&#772;ria in its technical usage denoting the reclaiming from death unto life, apo&#772;leia also acquires the specific sense of such ruin and destruction as involves an eternal loss of life (Phi_1:28; Heb_10:39). Perdition in this latter sense is equivalent to what theology calls “eternal death.” When in Rev_17:8, Rev_17:11 it is predicated of “the beast,” one of the forms of the world-power, this must be understood on the basis of the Old Testament prophetic representation according to which the coming judgment deals with powers rather than persons.
The Son of Perdition is a name given to Judas (Joh_17:12) and to the Antichrist (2Th_2:3). This is the well-known Hebrew idiom by which a person typically embodying a certain trait or character or destiny is called the son of that thing. The name therefore represents Judas and the Antichrist (see MAN OF SIN) as most irrecoverably and completely devoted to the final apo&#772;leia.

This applies to men who have set themselves up in the temple and their flesh rules their life and not the spirit. I would hazard to say that you do not feel there is more to your salvation other than saying the words. If you continue to walk in sin there no longer remains a sacrifice and if you do not wake up and repent than you would become a son of perdition as the explanation states. Why would would Jesus say to Peter Satan get behind me? It was because his mind was opposition to the mind of God. So was the mind of Satan present in Peter at the time or was it a saying just out of the blue that Jesus came up with? Had Jesus died yet and has the spirit of God come into Peter yet? Was Ananias a christian, but when he sinned did death come upon him? A lose of salvation doubly dead? Are the sons of disobedience assigned to judgement and is a son of perdition already judged?

Jud 1:11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
Jud 1:12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;

This is a son of perdition. This was Judas and this will be the antichrist, ones that speak against the word of God and set themselves up in the temple over God.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

It is ridiculous is that if what Isaiah 14 says of him. But it doesn't. He destroys his land and his people is that he persecutes the Jews - who will reject him when he reveals himself as the man of sin, by going into the temple and claiming to be God
What science? It is not talking about science, but bible prophecy. Science is the study of the physical universe. I don't even know why you would choose that term.

The Antichrist goes through 4 stages to his career.

1. the little horn politician emerging out of the EU final form.
2. the Prince who shall, the perceived King Messiah of the Jews.
3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition
4. the Antichrist-beast of Revelation.
And you are claiming that people had 666 on their heads and right hand before. Please give a link or a bible passage.
It's a term that is only twice in the bible.
Well, I have made over 4000 posts at Jewish (Judaism) sites arguing with them and learning about their beliefs... what makes you so knowledgeable?

I have scriptures indicating that he will be a Jew, and must be a Jew.

But it is okay if he is a gentile?

The Jews will reject the Antichrist as being their messiah when he reveals himself as the man of sin. The Jews will embrace the gospel of Salvation, Jesus as their King, Lord, and Savior during that time, so the view is hardly Anti-Semitic or Anti-Jew.

God is blessing the Jews, even though right now they are in a state of unbelief. And of course, anyone who takes a stand against them being that chosen nation, and Israel in the phsyical sense is going against God. Opposing parts of their (Judaism's) theology, which has errors, is not going against God.

They do not become Christians until after Gog/Magog, and after temporarily, in grave error, think the incognito Antichrist is their King Messiah.

No, that has nothing to do with 2thessalonians2. You are spinning off on some tangent without providing any scriptural basis for what you are saying.

Doug

The mark and seal of Babylon is given when the person has holidays that are derived from Babylon and these holidays have rituals that teach of a Babylonian Messiah, and if you follow the traditions of Babylon, you are then marked between your eyes and on your right hand OF BABYLON..


The mark and seal of God is given when the person has Holy days, and Sabbaths of God that God has instructed his people to keep.
When you keep the Holy days and Sabbaths of God, you are given a sign between your eyes and on your right hand.,


This tradition of being marked with a sign between your eyes and on your right hand has been around since Exodus 13--


7 Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters.
8 And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the Lord did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt.
9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the Lord brought thee out of Egypt.


Now people who go looking to make the mark of the beast something it isn't.

A person is simply marked in their forehead and right arm by what they celebrate and what their traditions are, and it defines what a person is....

If your traditions are from Babylon and your teaching is to teach people not to keep the commandments of God, then you are marked in your forehead and on your arm with the mark of the beast and you will die when Jerusalem is searched with light....

But if you are a person who mourns for the abominations being committed in the Temple, then you are marked in your forehead and right arm because you are mourning for the forsaken feasts and traditions of God.

You are mourning because people came to the temple of God involving themselves in sun worship as Saturnalia and weeping for Tammuz as in Easter.

People receive the seal of God as a sign between them and their God as to what Sabbaths they keep.

 

[Douggg]

What are you trying to prove - that Constantine was the man of sin, based on Antiochus IV actions?

ANTIOCHUS IV DOES WICKEDLY AGAINST THE COVENANT

Antiochus was never called the son of perdition in the bible.

THE BELIEFS OF CONSTANTINE CHRISTIANITY

Constantine was not the Antichrist, son of perdition. He was not a Jew like Judas, he didn't carry out an act of betrayal like Judas, he was not entered into by Satan like Judas. Constantine claimed to be a Christian; Judas was not a Christian. The Antichrist's religion superficially at least has to be Judaism at the beginning of his career.

THE CHANGING OF TIMES AND TORAH COMMANDS
KJV Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws ...
1 Maccabees 1:49: To the end they might forget the law, and change all the ordinances.
Antiochus IV Epiphanes DECREED that you NOT follow the "times and seasons" of the Torah (weekly Sabbath and annual Festivals days) and other Torah commands.
Constanatine Christianity says Yeshua is Messiah and changed the sabbath and annual festival days given by Moses in the Torah.

Daniel 7:25 is end times. The little horn's time ends when God destroys his kingdom, and the kingdom of God become the rule of the earth. Neither Constantine nor Antiochus fit the prophecy.

FALSE WITNESS SAYS: MESSIAH CHANGED THE CUSTOMS OF MOSES

A FALSE WITNESS (Constantine Christianity) says that Messiah died on the tree and CHANGED THE CUSTOMS OF MOSES.
KJV Acts 6:13 And set up FALSE WITNESSES, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
KJV Acts 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall CHANGE the CUSTOMS which MOSES delivered us.

Constantine's Christianity was questionable, no doubt about it, the above comments aside. But that does not make him the man of sin, son of perdition of 2thessalonians2.

Doug

 

[ancientsoul]

by Eddie Chumney
Hebraic Heritage Ministries Int'l
(PART 2 OF 2)

UNDERSTANDING THE EVENTS IN THE END OF DAYS
In order to understand the events associated with the end of days, you NEED to have understanding of the following items:

#1) There will be a struggle in the end of days where the world's system (Greco-Roman hellenistic) will seek to IMPOSE its ways and value system upon the people of YHVH

#2) There will be an end-time battle between the descendents of Jacob (house of Jacob) and the descendents of Esau (house of Esau)

#3) Joseph revealing himself to his brothers is prophetic of the restoration and reunification of both houses of Israel (Messianic Redemption)
Hanukkah prepares and educates you regarding the struggle and battle over the forces of Greco-Roman hellenistic viewpoint and values versus following the Torah of the Messiah.
ANTIOCHUS IV EPHIPHANES IS A TYPE OF THE FALSE MESSIAH
As explained in Part 1 of this teaching, Biblical history is prophetic.
The historical events associated with the rule of Antiochus IV Epiphanes is prophetic of the ways, mindset and actions of the future false messiah.

WHAT ARE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE FALSE MESSIAH?

MAIN CHARACTERISTIC

**** The false messiah doesn't follow Torah and advocates others to not follow Torah
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
"Our gathering together" unto him is NOT the pre-tribulation "rapture". It is the restoration and reunification of both houses of Israel (Ephraim and Judah) as described in Ezekiel 37:15-28.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
The "day of Messiah" is the MESSIANIC ERA.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
FALSE MESSIAH = MAN OF SIN = DOESN'T FOLLOW TORAH
What does it mean by "man of sin". It means that the false Messiah does NOT follow Torah.
KJV 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
THE MAJOR CHARACTERISTIC of the FALSE MESSIAH is that he DOESN'T FOLLOW TORAH and ENCOURAGES OTHERS to NOT follow Torah.

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The false messiah will equate himself to be as God. This is what Antiochus IV Epiphanes did.

ANTIOCHUS IV SEES HIMSELF ON PAR WITH GOD
KJV Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the GREAT HORN was BROKEN; and for it came up FOUR NOTABLE ONES toward the four winds of heaven.
KJV Daniel 8:9 And out of ONE of THEM came forth a LITTLE HORN, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
The "little horn" is Antiochus IV Epiphanes.
Epiphanes means 'God made manifest'. Antiochus IV viewed himself as being on par with God.
KJV Daniel 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
KJV Daniel 8:11 Yea, he MAGNIFIED HIMSELF even to the prince of the host ...

THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity <458> doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The false messiah is associated with the "mystery of iniquity". What is the meaning of the word, "iniquity" ???
458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah}  from 459; TDNT - AV - iniquity 12, unrighteousness 1, transgress the law
INIQUITY = Strong's 458 = Greek word 'Anomia' = Transgress the Torah
KJV 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law <458>.
TRANSGRESS THE TORAH = Strong's 458 = Greek word 'Anomia'
The "mystery of iniquity" is the spirit which will NOT follow Torah.
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that WICKED be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

WHO ARE THE WICKED WHO ARE REVEALED?
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received NOT the LOVE of the TRUTH, that they might be saved.

WICKED = LOVE NOT THE TRUTH
KJV Psalm 119:150 They draw nigh that follow after mischief: they are far from thy law.
MISCHIEF = FAR FROM TORAH
OK, so the WICKED LOVE NOT the TRUTH? What is the TRUTH?

WHAT IS TRUTH?
KJV 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
KJV 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we KEEP his COMMANDMENTS.
KJV 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and KEEPETH NOT his COMMANDMENTS, is a liar, and the TRUTH is NOT in HIM.
So, those who follow the ways of the false Messiah love NOT the truth.
Those who follow Yeshua LOVE the truth.
KJV Psalm 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy TORAH is the TRUTH.
KJV Psalm 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy COMMANDMENTS are TRUTH.
KJV Psalm 119:44 So shall I KEEP thy LAW continually FOR EVER and EVER.
So, the WICKED who LOVE NOT THE TRUTH (Torah) follow after the ways of the false messiah.
Those that LOVE YESHUA, KEEP the TRUTH or the TORAH and LOVE to KEEP His COMMANDMENTS (which is TORAH).

BELIEVERS IN MESSIAH BELIEVE THE TRUTH
KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through SANCTIFICATION of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the TRUTH:
Contrary to the WICKED to LOVE NOT the truth (Torah), the TRUE followers of the Messiah are SANCTIFIED of the SPIRIT and BELIEVE in the TRUTH (follow Torah).
KJV John 17:17 SANCTIFY them through thy TRUTH: thy word is TRUTH.

THE RUACH HAKODESH (HOLY SPIRIT) IS OUR TEACHER OF TRUTH
KJV John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth ...
The RUACH HAKODESH (Holy Spirit) is the SPIRIT of TRUTH.
The RUACH HAKODESH (Holy Spirit) teaches the followers of Yeshua to FOLLOW TORAH.
Believers in the Messiah are given in the INDWELLING Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) to give us a HEART to FOLLOW TORAH.
KJV Ezekiel 36:26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put WITHIN YOU: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
KJV Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, and cause you to WALK in MY STATUTES, and ye shall KEEP my JUDGMENTS, and DO THEM.

Jesus is the Truth
Jesus is the Word

NOT just the TORAH ... ALL the WORD ...

John 14:6
JOhn 1:114
John 8:32
John 16:13
John 8:44
John 4:24
2 Tim 2:15
Ephesians 1:13
1 John 1:8

Revelation 19:10 ... And I fell at this feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

note: prophecy meaning messenger ... of Truth ...
Hannibal, you say the Torah is the truth ...

what about Jesus ... what is your testimony of Jesus, then? ... who do you say He is if He isn't Truth, but torah is ... just sayin' ... really if one believes in just parts of Truth ... then it's not Truth they believe in ... it's themselves ... it can't be any other way ... just sayin' ... it can't be just one or the other ... it's the law ... AND ... it's Jesus Christ ... just is ... so who do you say Jesus is ... it just doesn't work to keep skipping over Jesus ... you did it in the parable of the ten virgins, too ... nobody gets to put Jesus in the back room for any reason ... they gotta come through Him ... if you are a Christian ... i.e. Christ follower ...

either you're a Torah follower or your a Jesus follower, to the best i understand ... OR you're both ...

when a Christian follows the Torah they follow God's laws, commandments, and such ...

when a Christian follows the Truth, they follow Jesus ... and the Spirit leads them ...

i have issues when someone comes constantly pointing a finger and accusing ... again ... just sayin' ... what's the scripture ... why ye point the finger ... over and over and over ... just can't help noticing it ... Christians this, Christians that ... one would think you have a real issue with Chrisitians ...

so ... who do you say Jesus is?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

What are you trying to prove - that Constantine was the man of sin, based on Antiochus IV actions?



Antiochus was never called the son of perdition in the bible.
Constantine was not the Antichrist, son of perdition. He was not a Jew like Judas, he didn't carry out an act of betrayal like Judas, he was not entered into by Satan like Judas. Constantine claimed to be a Christian; Judas was not a Christian. The Antichrist's religion superficially at least has to be Judaism at the beginning of his career.
Daniel 7:25 is end times. The little horn's time ends when God destroys his kingdom, and the kingdom of God become the rule of the earth. Neither Constantine nor Antiochus fit the prophecy.

Constantine's Christianity was questionable, no doubt about it, the above comments aside. But that does not make him the man of sin, son of perdition of 2thessalonians2.

Doug

The man of sin is in everyone Dougg, but we are to die unto ourselves.

Eddie chumney gives a good fact based sheet what the anti-Christ does and what the people who follow the anti-Christ do.

Its not up for guessing or theory.

Anti-Christ comes to stand against the commandments of God and to change the times and the seasons.

YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THIS TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE?

Look around you closer.

When people stand against the word of God, it is the man of sin in them that is telling them that the ways of God are wrong, and they are standing in the place of God proving themselves to be God because they think they have the authority to change the word of God.

Are you waiting for a great falling away from the law Dougg?

Are you waiting for lawlessness to abound when people speak against the law?

That's what I don't understand, you think its not here now?

Its not obvious?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Jesus is the Truth
Jesus is the Word

NOT just the TORAH ... ALL the WORD ...

John 14:6
JOhn 1:114
John 8:32
John 16:13
John 8:44
John 4:24
2 Tim 2:15
Ephesians 1:13
1 John 1:8

Revelation 19:10 ... And I fell at this feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

note: prophecy meaning messenger ... of Truth ...
Hannibal, you say the Torah is the truth ...

what about Jesus ... what is your testimony of Jesus, then? ... who do you say He is if He isn't Truth, but torah is ... just sayin' ... really if one believes in just parts of Truth ... then it's not Truth they believe in ... it's themselves ... it can't be any other way ... just sayin' ... it can't be just one or the other ... it's the law ... AND ... it's Jesus Christ ... just is ... so who do you say Jesus is ... it just doesn't work to keep skipping over Jesus ... you did it in the parable of the ten virgins, too ... nobody gets to put Jesus in the back room for any reason ... they gotta come through Him ... if you are a Christian ... i.e. Christ follower ...

either you're a Torah follower or your a Jesus follower, to the best i understand ... OR you're both ...

when a Christian follows the Torah they follow God's laws, commandments, and such ...

when a Christian follows the Truth, they follow Jesus ... and the Spirit leads them ...

i have issues when someone comes constantly pointing a finger and accusing ... again ... just sayin' ... what's the scripture ... why ye point the finger ... over and over and over ... just can't help noticing it ... Christians this, Christians that ... one would think you have a real issue with Chrisitians ...

so ... who do you say Jesus is?

He is the Torah Soul.

''For there are 3 who bear witness in heaven: The father, the WORD and the holy spirit.''

If you speak against the word of God, you speak directly against Jesus.

In the beginning was the WORD, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

I don't know where you think I skipped over Jesus in the parables of the Ten virgins.

Keeping the commandments of God is to be a follower of Jesus Soul.

Following Jesus and keeping the commandments of God go hand in hand Soul.

It's not either or.



Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life because these are the 3 doorways with Veils on each.

It is the veil to the outer court, the veil of the Holy place and the veil of the Holy of Holies.

We study all these things learning who Jesus is, not who he isn't.

The problem here is that people think that following Jesus doesn't have anything to do with the commandments.

The 12 disciples all kept the laws of Moses till the day they died, and they also had the testimony of Jesus.

The two are not different.

If Gentiles don't keep the Torah like Jews do, big deal, but gentiles go much further and try to separate the word of God from Jesus.

Gentiles are released in many things and they should be happy, instead they try to change things for the Jews who love the word of God and their heritage is to keep the commandments of God and to have the testimony of Jesus.

Gentiles have made keeping the law to look like an ugly thing when there is nothing more beautiful.

You cannot speak against the word of God.

Its that simple.

 

[Douggg]

ANTIOCHUS IV EPHIPHANES IS A TYPE OF THE FALSE MESSIAH
As explained in Part 1 of this teaching, Biblical history is prophetic.
The historical events associated with the rule of Antiochus IV Epiphanes is prophetic of the ways, mindset and actions of the future false messiah.

Eddie isn't aware that the Antichrist goes through 4 stages of his career. Antiochus is not a type False Messiah because the Jews never saw him as the messiah and he was never the King of Israel.

But let's look at how Antiochus could be a type of - according to the action he did.

The four progressive stages to the Antichrist's career.

1. the little horn politician emerging out of the EU final form.

2. the Prince who shall come, the perceived King of Israel Messiah of the Jews. (Antiochus not a type here, Antiochus was never a king of Israel -messiah to the Jews. "The" messiah to the Jews means the great promised King that God would send them)

3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition

4. the Antichrist-beast of Revelation. (Antiochus is a type here. Because he did the same act of placing the abomination of desolation in the temple. The abomination of desolation that takes place during the Antichrist-beast's 42 month reign will be the statue image of him that everyone will have to worship)

Doug

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Jesus Fulfills the Law

This is what it comes down to, you either believe what Jesus says or you don't.

If you don't believe what Jesus says, you should ask yourself why.


17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. …

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Eddie isn't aware that the Antichrist goes through 4 stages of his career. Antiochus is not a type False Messiah because the Jews never saw him as the messiah and he was never the King of Israel.

But let's look at how Antiochus could be a type of - according to the action he did.

The four progressive stages to the Antichrist's career.

1. the little horn politician emerging out of the EU final form.

2. the Prince who shall come, the perceived King of Israel Messiah of the Jews. (Antiochus not a type here, Antiochus was never a king of Israel -messiah to the Jews. "The" messiah to the Jews means the great promised King that God would send them)

3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition

4. the Antichrist-beast of Revelation. (Antiochus is a type here. Because he did the same act of placing the abomination of desolation in the temple. The abomination of desolation that takes place during the Antichrist-beast's 42 month reign will be the statue image of him that everyone will have to worship)

Doug

Daniel 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, shall persecute the saints of the Most Holy, and shall intend to change the times and the law, then the saint shall be given into his hand for a time, and times and a half time.

Do you think this isn't being done now?

Daniel 8:9 The little horn refers came out of Greece and refers to Antiochus Epiphanies, who came to the throne in 175 B.C. and plundered the Temple in Jerusalem, desecrating it by offering swine's flesh on the alter of God.

Antiochus fulfilled everything in Chapter 8

People again speak pompous words against the most high and they persecute the saints of the most high, and they not only intend to change the times and the seasons, they have done it.

 

[ancientsoul]

He is the Torah Soul.

''For there are 3 who bear witness in heaven: The father, the WORD and the holy spirit.''

If you speak against the word of God, you speak directly against Jesus.

In the beginning was the WORD, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

I don't know where you think I skipped over Jesus in the parables of the Ten virgins.

Keeping the commandments of God is to be a follower of Jesus Soul.

Following Jesus and keeping the commandments of God go hand in hand Soul.

It's not either or.



Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life because these are the 3 doorways with Veils on each.

It is the veil to the outer court, the veil of the Holy place and the veil of the Holy of Holies.

We study all these things learning who Jesus is, not who he isn't.

The problem here is that people think that following Jesus doesn't have anything to do with the commandments.

The 12 disciples all kept the laws of Moses till the day they died, and they also had the testimony of Jesus.

The two are not different.

If Gentiles don't keep the Torah like Jews do, big deal, but gentiles go much further and try to separate the word of God from Jesus.

Gentiles are released in many things and they should be happy, instead they try to change things for the Jews who love the word of God and their heritage is to keep the commandments of God and to have the testimony of Jesus.

Gentiles have made keeping the law to look like an ugly thing when there is nothing more beautiful.

You cannot speak against the word of God.

Its that simple.

okay ... so no lumping everyone into one lump sum there ... what happened to 'there are those who do these thing' ... even Jesus recoignized (sp?) the good in the different churches ... not just the lack thereof ... like you said Hannibal ... either you believe what Jesus says ... or you don't ... He never says to go around being a fruit inspector ... or a judger of who has the Truth or whatever ... and nothing done without love but rarely ends up well ... if ever ... shall we go through His teachings ... how about the first one ... where Satan offers Him the world i.e. fame and fortune ... hmmm ... where have we herard that lately ... just give to a Jew and just serve Him ... and you can have blessings and money ... 'you can have instant fame and fortune if i tell my secret' ... and what was the end of that teaching ... just how the enemy ever so slighty tweaks scripture to fit his cause' ... shall we move to the next one ... why not take the plank out of your own eye ... you don't have a clue what me or anyone else thinks ... you only surmise from what you've seen ... i make no accusations and i make no judgements on anything ... but my discernment says to keep my eyes straight on Jesus ... cuz if it ain't all Truth ... it ain't truth ... Jesus says so ... a little leaven ... just my discernment ... or whatever ... that's the way it works, hannibal ... to constantly hammer to a house of Christians how bad they are is ... not my Lord speaking to me ... i've had my say here ... and i don't see anything good coming from this ... may God bless the Truth ... you see, i do believe what Jesus says ...

 

[HannibalFlavius]

okay ... so no lumping everyone into one lump sum there ... what happened to 'there are those who do these thing' ... even Jesus recoignized (sp?) the good in the different churches ... not just the lack thereof ... like you said Hannibal ... either you believe what Jesus says ... or you don't ... He never says to go around being a fruit inspector ... or a judger of who has the Truth or whatever ... and nothing done without love but rarely ends up well ... if ever ... shall we go through His teachings ... how about the first one ... where Satan offers Him the world i.e. fame and fortune ... hmmm ... where have we herard that lately ... just give to a Jew and just serve Him ... and you can have blessings and money ... 'you can have instant fame and fortune if i tell my secret' ... and what was the end of that teaching ... just how the enemy ever so slighty tweaks scripture to fit his cause' ... shall we move to the next one ... why not take the plank out of your own eye ... you don't have a clue what me or anyone else thinks ... you only surmise from what you've seen ... i make no accusations and i make no judgements on anything ... but my discernment says to keep my eyes straight on Jesus ... cuz if it ain't all Truth ... it ain't truth ... Jesus says so ... a little leaven ... just my discernment ... or whatever ... that's the way it works, hannibal ... to constantly hammer to a house of Christians how bad they are is ... not my Lord speaking to me ... i've had my say here ... and i don't see anything good coming from this ... may God bless the Truth ... you see, i do believe what Jesus says ...

I never said anywhere that you could have fame and fortune for giving to Jews Soul.

I said that you should reject the world and sell all you own and give to a needy Jew.

This isn't going to make you rich or famous, and when you get blessed because of giving up your money, you should give it away again.

I would tell anyone not to have anything, and to reject wealth, and you are saying I said the opposite.


I said I have a secret that I leaned that I haven't told anyone, I said it would scare people and it would.

I never said giving to needy Jews would make you wealthy or famous, I said you will be blessed very much because you can't out give God, and I would tell the person who is blessed to give it right back to God because money is an illusion.

I tell everyone to give it away, not visa versa.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

why not take the plank out of your own eye ... you don't have a clue what me or anyone else thinks ... you only surmise from what you've seen ... i make no accusations and i make no judgements on anything ... but my discernment says to keep my eyes straight on Jesus ... cuz if it ain't all Truth ... it ain't truth ... Jesus says so ... a little leaven ... just my discernment ... or whatever ... that's the way it works, hannibal ... to constantly hammer to a house of Christians how bad they are is ... not my Lord speaking to me ... i've had my say here ... and i don't see anything good coming from this ... may God bless the Truth ... you see, i do believe what Jesus says ...

You believe that you should keep the least of the commandments and you are to teach people to keep the commandments?

That's what I'm saying Soul.

But if I speak up for the commandments and the ways of God, then I am being judgmental?

I am just speaking for the commandments of God and God's ways, and I already know that to do this brings anger out in people because I dare to do it.

I can here people speaking against the commandments of God all the time and never say anything. I hear them saying that Jesus is the reason for the season and I see them teaching against the ways of God day in and day out, But if I speak up for the ways of God, I have a plank because I would dare go against the majority teaching.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, shall persecute the saints of the Most Holy, and shall intend to change the times and the law, then the saint shall be given into his hand for a time, and times and a half time.

The time, times, and half time is after the Antichrist goes through the first three stages of his career and is into that final stage as the Antichrist-beast.

That he starts out as the little horn; then as the Prince who shall come, then as the revealed man of sin, son of perdition; then as the Antichrist-beast, it is all the same person

In Revelation 12:14, the time, times, and half times in that passage is that same period that he will persecute the Jews. Satan will have been cast down and will empower him. Satan will not be possessing the Antichrist during that period though. Satan only enters the Antichrist for a brief period in his man of sin, son of perdition stage.

Do you think this isn't being done now?

No, because the ten king (leader) kingdom, the ruling body of the EU has not formed yet.

Daniel 8:9 The little horn refers came out of Greece and refers to Antiochus Epiphanies, who came to the throne in 175 B.C. and plundered the Temple in Jerusalem, desecrating it by offering swine's flesh on the alter of God.

Not hardly. Daniel 8:17 indicates the transgression that makes the temple desolate is end times.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Daniel 8:23 indicates that the little horn, king of fierce countenance will stand up out of the kingdom of the transgressors. Who the transgressors are - are the ten kings who align themselves with the Antichrist-beast (Revelation 17:12, 17:17)

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

In the latter time of the transgressors kingdom - which is the final form of the EU, the king of fierce countenance will stand up from.

Daniel 7 is about where he will first emerge from.

Daniel 8:23 is about after he has emerged and has removed and replaced three of those kings - and is about to go to war (he stands up, which is what animals do on their hind legs as they are about to fight)_, heading south and east to Israel in great strength (Daniel 8:9).

He will be coming to Israel to stop the Gog/Magog attack. He will arrive late, as God supernaturally destroys Gog's armies before they reach Jerusalem. But that he comes with the intent to rescue Israel, to fight in defending them, the Jews will perceive that he is the long awaited King Messiah.

As the Prince who shall come in Daniel 9, following Gog/Magog, from the temple mount he will oversee the reading of Moses's instructions to go in and possess the land, a law that Moses made to every generation to commemoratively read every 7 years.

In the text of Deuteronomy 31:10-11. Thus confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year period in Daniel 9:27.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Antiochus fulfilled everything in Chapter 8

Antiochus fulfilled nothing in Chapter 8. The king of fierce coutenance in Daniel 8 cannot be broken by human means. Antiochus was forced to turn back when he went down to Egypt with the intent to remove the king, when a Roman general drew a line in the sand, circling Antiochus forcing him to make a decision - proceed and go to war with Rome, or retreat back from where you come from. Antiochus backed down.

The king of fierce countenace in Daniel 8 takes on the Prince of princes - Jesus. It is talking about the end times Antichrist.

People again speak pompous words against the most high and they persecute the saints of the most high, and they not only intend to change the times and the seasons, they have done it.

Go to Daniel 11. Antochus is in that chapter, but is dead by the time it gets to Daniel 11:36. That verse is ends times, and the king is the end times Antichrist in the final stage of his career as the Antichrist-beast. The pompous words against God are in both Revelation 13 and Daniel 11:36. It's the same guy. The Antichrist-beast.

Daniel 11:
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. (he'll be a Jew)


Revelation 13:
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

 

[Bible2]

Douggg said in post 14:

The son of perdition, the man of sin in 2thessalonians2 claims to be God. So it is not Christians leading a less than Christian life.

That's right.

And no man ever sat in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaimed himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, cf. Matthew 24:15), just as no man ever fulfilled other detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, Revelation 19:19-21, and 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9.

The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices (which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have been offering in front of it), and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). And he could make a television and internet broadcast of it which will be seen live by the world (so that the "ye" in Matthew 24:15 could include people all around the world). He could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews), and lift the Mercy Seat off of the Ark, showing the Ark to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where is YHWH? He is not here! He is a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while 4 more men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. All the men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit on the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could take the crown from the pope's hands, and as the Antichrist is placing the crown on his own head, a camera could zoom in on his face as he says: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. Worship me, all ye nations of the earth!"

(cf. Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)

 

[Bible2]

HannibalFlavius said in post 33:

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:17-18 means that Jesus came the first time not to abolish the prophecies in the Mosaic law and the Old Testament prophets regarding the Christ's first coming, but to fulfill all those prophecies (Luke 24:44-48; e.g. Acts 3:22-26, Isaiah 53). Matthew 5:17-18 can't mean that Jesus came not to abolish the letter of the commandments of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, for he did come to do that, on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19). Also, Matthew 5:17-18 can't mean that Jesus came to fulfill the letter of all the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments, for he couldn't possibly have done that. For example, some of those commandments applied only to women after childbirth (Leviticus 12:4-8), or to wives suspected of adultery by their husbands (Numbers 5:19-31).

As the Christ (Matthew 5:17, Luke 24:44-46), the mediator of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-8), Jesus had the divine authority to contradict the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments and replace them with his own, even better, New Covenant commandments (Matthew 5:38-44, Matthew 19:7-9, John 8:5-7), such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37; 1 Thessalonians 4:2). And as the Christ, Jesus had the divine authority to allow his disciples to break the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (Matthew 12:1-8).

HannibalFlavius said in post 33:

19Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. &#8230;

Matthew 5:19-20 refers to the New Covenant/New Testament commandments/sayings (Matthew 5:19, Matthew 7:24-29) which Jesus, as the Christ (Matthew 5:17b, Luke 24:44-46), was just about to give in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29), and which New Covenant commandments "exceed in righteousness" (Matthew 5:20 to 7:29) the (now) abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19).