The Law is eternal...

[k4c]

There is no way around the Ten Commandments. They will either bring death to you or bring life to you.

If you try to keep the Law in order to be justified before God you will fail. This failure will bring death, spiritually and physically.

But, if we can understand what God has done for us, in that, through Christ we are justified then that burden of trying to fulfill the Law to be acceptable to God is removed.

What this does is it frees us to love God by God's definition of love, which is found in His Law.

Because of Jesus, we can love God and neighbor without the fear, guilt or the condemnation that burdened us because of sin.

Remember, the Law was suppose to bring life, but instead, it brought death because of our sin. Take away the sin, through the blood of Christ, and there is no longer any condemnation, which is what brings that fear, guilt and death.

 

[Cribstyl]

There is no way around the Ten Commandments. They will either bring death to you or bring life to you.

If you try to keep the Law in order to be justified before God you will fail. This failure will bring death, spiritually and physically.

But, if we can understand what God has done for us, in that, through Christ we are justified then that burden of trying to fulfill the Law to be acceptable to God is removed.

What this does is it frees us to love God by God's definition of love, which is found in His Law.

Because of Jesus, we can love God and neighbor without the fear, guilt or the condemnation that burdened us because of sin.

Remember, the Law was suppose to bring life, but instead, it brought death because of our sin. Take away the sin, through the blood of Christ, and there is no longer any condemnation, which is what brings that fear, guilt and death.

The Gospel accordind to K4c.

 

[k4c]

The Gospel accordind to K4c.

Do you speak from your own personal studies or do you speak from what you've been taught?

God could have ended creation at the sixth day and it would have all been very good, but He didn't stop there. The seventh day was created for a specific purpose. That purpose is identified by the words God used to define the day. He sanctified it, He blessed and He called it holy.

I believe the only reason why you reject the fourth commandment is either you work on the Sabbath, your church refuses the fourth commandment or you don't love God.

Do you know that God says we hate Him if we refuse the second commandment? It's no different with the other nine.

I wonder where you would stand if all mainline churches kept the seventh day holy? Do you think you would be a Sabbath keeper? Do you think you would be believing what you believe?

Remember, if you love God, keep His commandments.

 

[Cribstyl]

Do you speak from your own personal studies or do you speak from what you've been taught?

God could have ended creation at the sixth day and it would have all been very good, but He didn't stop there. The seventh day was created for a specific purpose. That purpose is identified by the words God used to define the day. He sanctified it, He blessed and He called it holy.

I believe the only reason why you reject the fourth commandment is either you work on the Sabbath, your church refuses the fourth commandment or you don't love God.

Do you know that God says we hate Him if we refuse the second commandment? It's no different with the other nine.

I wonder where you would stand if all mainline churches kept the seventh day holy? Do you think you would be a Sabbath keeper? Do you think you would be believing what you believe?

Remember, if you love God, keep His commandments.

I've read most of the bible several times. I disagree with your summary and presentation of God's word because you donot quote what is written within the word. You tend to suggest what people should do by using isolated text for your benefit.

I have been annointed to teach what is written, so I should always provide scriptures whenever I am questioned. YES!! I am able to abbandon my understanding and adopt new insight from people who handle the word correctly.

The Gospel begins where the law and the prophets end. Why do I say that? When Jesus came from His baptism and temptation He said....

Mat 11:12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mat 11:13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

What Jesus is explaining is that John teaches repentance and forgiveness of sin and people are fighting for it.

If the apostles were commissioned to preach the gospel why are you preaching the law?

How did Peter feed Christ sheep?? By teaching about who Jesus is for people to have faith in Him. Then Peter was able to address believer about the loving relationship we should have with our fellowman.

Christ commandments are to believe on Him and to love our neighbors.
You keep isolating the word commandments, knowing that Jesus is not talking about the ten commandments, but rather, the manner of doctrines that He taught His disciples.

CRIB

 

[k4c]

I've read most of the bible several times. I disagree with your summary and presentation of God's word because you donot quote what is written within the word. You tend to suggest what people should do by using isolated text for your benefit.

I have been annointed to teach what is written, so I should always provide scriptures whenever I am questioned. YES!! I am able to abbandon my understanding and adopt new insight from people who handle the word correctly.

The Gospel begins where the law and the prophets end. Why do I say that? When Jesus came from His baptism and temptation He said....

Mat 11:12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mat 11:13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

What Jesus is explaining is that John teaches repentance and forgiveness of sin and people are fighting for it.

If the apostles were commissioned to preach the gospel why are you preaching the law?

How did Peter feed Christ sheep?? By teaching about who Jesus is for people to have faith in Him. Then Peter was able to address believer about the loving relationship we should have with our fellowman.

Christ commandments are to believe on Him and to love our neighbors.
You keep isolating the word commandments, knowing that Jesus is not talking about the ten commandments, but rather, the manner of doctrines that He taught His disciples.

CRIB

What do you believe the spirit of the Law is?

 

[unkern]

What do you believe the spirit of the Law is?

^It sound to me that you are on the right track my brother.

To help you out Cribstyl, Paul teaches about 3 different types of law, there is the Torah law(G-d's law, Commandments), there is the Penalty of the law (under the law of sin in death), and there is the Oral law (Mishna, works of the law, deeds of the law, the written code, letter)

We can see the differences in scriptures like Gal 3:10 "those who depend on the law live under a curse. For the scripture says, "Whoever DOES NOT always obey everything that is written in the book of the law is under G-d's curse"

We can also see it between these two scriptures Rom 3:31 "Does this mean that by this faith we do away with the law? NO, not at all; instead, we uphold the law."
and
Gal 3:12 "but the law has nothing to do with faith, as the scripture says, Whoever does everything the law requires will live"

Messiah himself said that he came to fill the law and not to abolish it (end, destroy. To fill something would be to completely do something. Well we know that the "word became flesh" and he did every law(command) did he do it to abolish it and therefore we would no longer do it ourselves? No. He came to do all of it so that by grace we could do all of it.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

There is no way around the Ten Commandments. They will either bring death to you or bring life to you.

Incorrect. The ten commandments are the ministry that brings death. The Holy Spirit is the ministry that brings life. The ten commandments cannot and will not bring life.

If you try to keep the Law in order to be justified before God you will fail.

It is for this reason that the SDA position on the mark of the beast is heresy. If the mark of the beast relates to sabbath keeping, then man must try to keep the law in order to maintain justification before God.

This failure will bring death, spiritually and physically.

But, if we can understand what God has done for us, in that, through Christ we are justified then that burden of trying to fulfill the Law to be acceptable to God is removed.

If we could stop here, we might agree. But I sense a further addendum coming.

What this does is it frees us to love God by God's definition of love, which is found in His Law.

Yup. There it is.

Because of Jesus, we can love God and neighbor without the fear, guilt or the condemnation that burdened us because of sin. Remember, the Law was suppose to bring life, but instead, it brought death because of our sin. Take away the sin, through the blood of Christ, and there is no longer any condemnation, which is what brings that fear, guilt and death.

Do we die to the law so that we may be joined to another? Then, after being joined to another, do we commit adultery with the same law to which we died?

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

To help you out Cribstyl, Paul teaches about 3 different types of law, there is the Torah law(G-d's law, Commandments), there is the Penalty of the law (under the law of sin in death), and there is the Oral law (Mishna, works of the law, deeds of the law, the written code, letter)

How can we distinguish the law from its penalty and suggest that the two are separate categories? That which you call "help" is less than clear.

We can see the differences in scriptures like Gal 3:10 "those who depend on the law live under a curse. For the scripture says, "Whoever DOES NOT always obey everything that is written in the book of the law is under G-d's curse"

Using your 3 categories, which type of law is found in Galatians 3:10. Since it is written in the book of the law, we certainly could not conclude that it is the law that you call "oral."

We can also see it between these two scriptures Rom 3:31 "Does this mean that by this faith we do away with the law? NO, not at all; instead, we uphold the law."

Does the chapter of Romans 3 confirm that we establish the law by keeping the law or that we establish the law through faith?

Gal 3:12 "but the law has nothing to do with faith,

How true. The law has nothing to do with faith. The law includes dependence on that which man does (at least in part). Faith includes dependence solely on that which God has done.

Messiah himself said that he came to fill the law and not to abolish it

Great! We agree that Jesus Christ came to fulfill. And He did just that. Fulfill does not mean "abolish." It means to "satisfy fully the requirements of."

To fill something would be to completely do something.

Yup. The requirement has been fully met.

BFA

 

[unkern]

How can we distinguish the law from its penalty and suggest that the two are separate categories? That which you call "help" is less than clear.

It was already distinguished in the Torah look at Duet 28-29, again it is distinguished in Romans 6-8

Using your 3 categories, which type of law is found in Galatians 3:10. Since it is written in the book of the law, we certainly could not conclude that it is the law that you call "oral."

The book of the Law is the book of Torah, that law that is referred to as the curse is the Oral law.

Does the chapter of Romans 3 confirm that we establish the law by keeping the law or that we establish the law through faith?

We establish the law by faith, the important part is then everytime we see the word faith we know it establishes law.

How true. The law has nothing to do with faith. The law includes dependence on that which man does (at least in part). Faith includes dependence solely on that which God has done.

The law that is used in this verse is the Penalty of the law, otherwise it would contradict what Paul says in Romans

Great! We agree that Jesus Christ came to fulfill. And He did just that. Fulfill does not mean "abolish." It means to "satisfy fully the requirements of."

Yes we do agree, an example would be that when we went to be purified by immersion we then fulfilled that law, of course since we could not do them all Messiah needed to come.

Yup. The requirement has been fully met.

By Messiah

 

[Byfaithalone1]

It was already distinguished in the Torah look at Duet 28-29, again it is distinguished in Romans 6-8

Check again. According to Romans, we die to law and not only its penalty. If we don't, we cannot be joined with another.

The book of the Law is the book of Torah, that law that is referred to as the curse is the Oral law.

This is a nice theory.

We establish the law by faith, the important part is then everytime we see the word faith we know it establishes law.

Yes, we establish the law by faith. We do not establish the law by obedience to it.

The law that is used in this verse is the Penalty of the law, otherwise it would contradict what Paul says in Romans

It seems that you are reading things in the passage that aren't really there. If I've misunderstood, please show me where I can find the phrase "the penalty of the law."

Yes we do agree, an example would be that when we went to be purified by immersion we then fulfilled that law, of course since we could not do them all Messiah needed to come.

Yes. We establish the law through faith in Him, not through our own obedience.

BFA

 

[unkern]

Check again. According to Romans, we die to law and not only its penalty. If we don't, we cannot be joined with another.



This is a nice theory.



Yes, we establish the law by faith. We do not establish the law by obedience to it.



It seems that you are reading things in the passage that aren't really there. If I've misunderstood, please show me where I can find the phrase "the penalty of the law."



Yes. We establish the law through faith in Him, not through our own obedience.

BFA

Id assume you would know what obedience is? What is there to be obedient to? Are we obedient to the Lord if we break all of his commands? How do we repent? The only way we can repent is from sin, and sin by definition(1 john 3:4) is breaking the Law aka the commandments of the Lord. The penalty is another word I use to help explain in Romans where it says "the law of sin and death". We no that Paul says that the law is not sin, how can it be when sin is breaking the law. So how is there all law of sin and death? Well, sin causes death and there are curses that the Lord created in Deut 29 to cause that death, the law is actually translated as "Torah" (the first five books of the bible) so in the Torah is contained those curses. How can we be free from them unless Messiah "became a curse for us"

 

[k4c]

CRIB

You have not answered my question yet.

What do you believe the spirit of the Law is?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What do you believe the spirit of the law is?

Please show us the passage that contains the phrase "spirit of the law."

Id assume you would know what obedience is?

The Spirit does. As for me, I know what disobedience is.

What is there to be obedient to?

Read John 14 and John 16.

Are we obedient to the Lord if we break all of his commands?

Are we obedient to the Lord if we fail to keep His convocations as listed in Leviticus 23? How do you define obedience?

sin by definition(1 john 3:4) is breaking the Law aka the commandments of the Lord.

Does the Spirit convict with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment?

The penalty is another word I use to help explain in Romans where it says "the law of sin and death".

How do we distinguish "the law of sin and death" from "the ministry that brings death?"

BFA

 

[unkern]

Please show us the passage that contains the phrase "spirit of the law."



The Spirit does. As for me, I know what disobedience is.



Read John 14 and John 16.



Are we obedient to the Lord if we fail to keep His convocations as listed in Leviticus 23? How do you define obedience?



Does the Spirit convict with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment?



How do we distinguish "the law of sin and death" from "the ministry that brings death?"

BFA

Romans 8:2 "law of the spirit" it brings life, and we are free from the "law of sin and death"

Both say law, the law cannot both be both spirit and sin and death, so we see that they are different.

The ministry of death written on stone tablets, if the 10 commandments brought death than it would be a smart idea for us to now murder, steal, adulter, etc. Lets look deeper: Does not murdering others bring death? of course not. What part about the 10 commandments brings death? would not following them bring death? Yes, in fact they were written on 2 stone tablets to represent that our hearts are like stone.

Were you talking about John 14:15-21

Obedience means to be in submission or compliance to the root word is obey, The festivals were more than just holy convocations the were to be done forever, lasting ordinance. There is no end to forever the Hebrew is eon, this is eternal. So, if were not following the feast and saying because it is only eternal for a time than just as easily we could have eternal life for a time and in the end only be in Heaven for a certain amount of time. This is not true is it?

"Does the Spirit convict with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment?"
-expand plz-

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Romans 8:2 "law of the spirit" it brings life, and we are free from the "law of sin and death"

You seem to suggest that the phrase "law of the spirit" is the same thing as "the spirit of the law." If that is indeed your position, I don't find the two phrases to be synonymous. I have yet to find the phrase "the spirit of the law" in Scripture.

The ministry of death written on stone tablets, if the 10 commandments brought death than it would be a smart idea for us to now murder, steal, adulter, etc.

Actually, I think your argument is backward. The letters engraved in stones were the ministry of death because people murdered, stole and committed adultery. It is for this very reason that the letters engraved on stones were the ministry that brings death. It is for this very reason that we are to die to the law so that we may be joined to another. The One to whom we are joined can do that which we cannot.

Obedience means to be in submission or compliance to the root word is obey, The festivals were more than just holy convocations the were to be done forever, lasting ordinance. There is no end to forever the Hebrew is eon, this is eternal. So, if were not following the feast and saying because it is only eternal for a time than just as easily we could have eternal life for a time and in the end only be in Heaven for a certain amount of time. This is not true is it?

How interesting that our SDA friends suggest that only one of the holy convocations is to be kept as a lasting ordinance. Why the disconnect?

"Does the Spirit convict with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment?"
-expand plz-

It's not a difficult question. Does the Spirit convict with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment? YES or NO would work.

BFA

 

[unkern]

You seem to suggest that the phrase "law of the spirit" is the same thing as "the spirit of the law." If that is indeed your position, I don't find the two phrases to be synonymous. I have yet to find the phrase "the spirit of the law" in Scripture.



Actually, I think your argument is backward. The letters engraved in stones were the ministry of death because people murdered, stole and committed adultery. It is for this very reason that the letters engraved on stones were the ministry that brings death. It is for this very reason that we are to die to the law so that we may be joined to another. The One to whom we are joined can do that which we cannot.



How interesting that our SDA friends suggest that only one of the holy convocations is to be kept as a lasting ordinance. Why the disconnect?



It's not a difficult question. Does the Spirit convict with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment? YES or NO would work.

BFA

Romans 7:14, You may not find "the spirit of the law" exactly depending on the translation of NT, but we do know that the law is spiritual and that the word became flesh, meaning that Yeshua is a physical manifestation of the law.

Thats what I am saying, that by breaking them we are brought death, and we do die to the law OF SIN AND DEATH, but notice that that law of sin and death still lives in the flesh according to Paul.

I know of several SDA that do celebrate all the feasts, but I dont know why there would be a disconnect form any of the other ones.

The problem is the phrasing of the question: IN RESPECT to sin, and righteousness.
The spirit does convict us of sin, but there is no conviction in righteousness since we are already obedient.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Romans 7:14, You may not find "the spirit of the law" exactly depending on the translation of NT

In fact, there are no translations that refer to "the spirit of the law." There is a reason for that. The concept is not Biblical.

but we do know that the law is spiritual and that the word became flesh, meaning that Yeshua is a physical manifestation of the law.

To follow your line of reasoning, one would have to assume that "the word" is "the law." However, this line of reasoning does not follow. Per Hebrews 10, the law is a shadow and Jesus is the reality. "Jesus" and "the law" are not interchangable terms.

Thats what I am saying, that by breaking them we are brought death, and we do die to the law OF SIN AND DEATH,

Again, you rewrite Scripture. We are to die to the law. Period. End of sentence.

I know of several SDA that do celebrate all the feasts, but I dont know why there would be a disconnect form any of the other ones.

I don't doubt that there are individual SDAs who believe any number of things. However, the existence of such positions does not change the position of the denomination itself. The SDA denomination teaches that all convocations listed in Leviticus 23 have been fulfilled (with one notable exception). I submit that there are no SDAs who keep the holy convocations as the Israelites were commanded to keep them.

The problem is the phrasing of the question: IN RESPECT to sin, and righteousness. The spirit does convict us of sin, but there is no conviction in righteousness since we are already obedient.

Romans 3 would hardly confirm your belief that we are already obedient.

Since the Spirit convicts us of sin, why do you worry about a world in which the law has been fulfilled? Can we have faith that the Spirit will do what Jesus promised He would do?

BFA

 

[unkern]

In fact, there are no translations that refer to "the spirit of the law." There is a reason for that. The concept is not Biblical.



To follow your line of reasoning, one would have to assume that "the word" is "the law." However, this line of reasoning does not follow. Per Hebrews 10, the law is a shadow and Jesus is the reality. "Jesus" and "the law" are not interchangable terms.



Again, you rewrite Scripture. We are to die to the law. Period. End of sentence.



I don't doubt that there are individual SDAs who believe any number of things. However, the existence of such positions does not change the position of the denomination itself. The SDA denomination teaches that all convocations listed in Leviticus 23 have been fulfilled (with one notable exception). I submit that there are no SDAs who keep the holy convocations as the Israelites were commanded to keep them.



Romans 3 would hardly confirm your belief that we are already obedient.

Since the Spirit convicts us of sin, why do you worry about a world in which the law has been fulfilled? Can we have faith that the Spirit will do what Jesus promised He would do?

BFA

ROMANS 7:14 your going to have to actually look it up, "the law is spiritual" so it is a biblical concept.

Do you know what the word of G-d is? Its the first five books of the bible called the Torah "the law" translates Torah, Word of G-d. Do your homework?

We are no longer under the law, because we die to the law of sin and death, get out of your message bible and look into what Romans 6-8 says.

That is because we either live a life of spirituality or of flesh. If your not obedient then you are not spiritual. The spirit does not live in everyone, nor does anyone allow the spirit to stay.

 

[Cribstyl]

You have not answered my question yet.

What do you believe the spirit of the Law is?

"The spirit of the law", is a term that means ,"the intent of the law."

 

[Byfaithalone1]

ROMANS 7:14 your going to have to actually look it up, "the law is spiritual" so it is a biblical concept.

No. The phrase "spirit of the law" is not a Biblical concept. The fact that the law is spiritual does not create a "spirit of the law." This is true regardless of the translation used.

Do you know what the word of G-d is? Its the first five books of the bible called the Torah

Show us your documentation.

We are no longer under the law, because we die to the law of sin and death

The passage reads that we die to the law. Now, I certainly agree with you that the law is the ministry that brings death. Either way, we die to the law.

That is because we either live a life of spirituality or of flesh.

Show me the person who lived a life free of the flesh. Why does Paul confirm that he did what he did not want to do?

If your not obedient then you are not spiritual.

Only Jesus was obedient. He confirmed that there is only One who is good.

The spirit does not live in everyone, nor does anyone allow the spirit to stay.

Does the Spirit live in you? If so, will the Spirit convict you with respect to sin?

BFA