The Last Day

n2thelight,

Once again all I can think of is, why does a person who professes to be a Christian work so diligently to deny the bodily resurrection of the dead?

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.

This may be why the body of Christ is spoken of as his flesh and bone. Sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.

We wait for the manifestation of the sons of God.

The simple and yet unfathomable truth concerning the resurrection of the dead on the last day.

bibletruth469 said:

Yes, there will be two groups of people in the 1000 year period . Those with glorified bodies and those with mortal bodies. Those with glorified bodies include the church and the tribulation martyrs .Those with the mortal bodies are divided into 2 groups ( Jews and Gentiles).

The way that I understand it, the people that die in the millennium who are right with God, will receive a glorified body at the start of the new heavens and new earth , fit for eternity . Rev 21:4-5," there will be no death, all things are made new".

The resurrections fall in stages. 1) at the rapture 2) tribulation martyrs 3) Old Testament saints . All will receive glorified bodies but at different times.

There will be no more war during the 10oo year period .however, satan will be released at the bed of the 1000 years to try those in the earth. Rev 20:7-10

There is also a resurrection of the wicked.( great white throne judgement )rev 20:11

Click to expand...

Riiiight...

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

random person said in post 149:

People live life carousing in sin not anticipating judgment as they did during the days of Noah RIGHT before the flood.

Click to expand...

The unsaved people of the world will have no idea that most of them are going to be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming until it happens (Matthew 24:37-39). For they could think that the 2nd coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned. And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's flood, even though they could see or hear about Noah building his huge ark, no doubt rejected the idea that YHWH had the power to actually cause a global flood which would kill them, so the people of the world at the end of the future tribulation could reject the idea that YHWH has the power to actually defeat them.

For during the tribulation's 2nd half, the world will see the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his fallen angels (Revelation 12:9), and the power Lucifer will give to the Antichrist to take over the entire earth (Revelation 13:4-8), and to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Revelation 13:5-6, Daniel 11:36), and to physically overcome and kill people in the church in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers that Lucifer will give to the Antichrist's False Prophet, by which he will be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Revelation 13:13, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

And near the end of the future tribulation, the world will see the Antichrist's defeat of YHWH's amazingly-powerful two witnesses (Revelation 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice and make merry and send gifts to each other because the two witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Revelation 11:10,6). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Revelation 16, the tribulation's final stage), the people of the world won't lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after almost all of the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the awesome miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the world's armies to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:13-14, Revelation 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the tribulation with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected first battleground of Bull Run/Manassas to watch the battle and what they expected to be a quick and easy victory.

random person said in post 149:

One left, one taken is further elaborated upon in Matt. 13:47-50 & Matt. 25:34, 41, 46

Click to expand...

Matthew 13:47-50 is the same idea as the parable of the wheat and the tares.

Regarding the tares, in Matthew 13:38 the good seed are the elect and the tares are the nonelect, who can't ever believe in Jesus (John 8:42-47). Matthew 13:40-42 refers to the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-14), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), when the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). In Matthew 13:43 the kingdom of the Father is after the great white throne judgment when a new earth (i.e. a new surface of the earth) will be created and God the Father will descend from heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with the church on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3).

random person said in post 149:

One left, one taken is further elaborated upon in Matt. 13:47-50 & Matt. 25:34, 41, 46

Click to expand...

Matthew 25:31 doesn't mean that Matthew 25:32-46 (just as 2 Peter 3:10a doesn't mean that 2 Peter 3:10b) will happen immediately at Jesus' 2nd coming, only that it will happen sometime subsequent to his 2nd coming, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15).

Matthew 25:32-46 refers to the "nations" being judged by their works at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:12-13), whereas at the 2nd coming, Jesus will judge only those in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30). Also, Matthew 25:41,46 refers to the unsaved being sent (at the time of Matthew 25:41,46) into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire and brimstone at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:15), whereas at the 2nd coming only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). The saved "sheep" at the sheep/goat judgment would include those who became believers during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). Matthew 25:34 refers to obedient believers inheriting the kingdom of the Father on the new earth in New Jerusalem, the Father's house (Revelation 21:1-7, John 14:2).

iamlamad said in post 150:

This earthquake is Paul's "sudden destruction" that will come upon those in darkness at the very same moment those living in the light of Christ (In Christ) get "salvation" [rapture] and get to "live together with Him" (so shall we ever be with the Lord).

Click to expand...

Regarding "sudden destruction", 1 Thessalonians 5:3 could include reference to when, near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, at the two witnesses' death at the legal end of the Antichrist's 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 11:8,15, Revelation 13:5-18), the unsaved world will rejoice and make merry, because it will then be free from the tormenting plagues from the two witnesses (Revelation 11:10,6). But little will the unsaved world realize that the plagues of the 7 vials of God's (temporal) judgment and wrath will then be poured out upon it (Revelation 16). And then Jesus will return and bring the 2nd-coming (yet still temporal) judgment and wrath of God (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3).

iamlamad said in post 150:

Paul hints strongly that the Day of the Lord will follow immediately after this great earthquake. John backs this up by writing, "the day of His wrath has come."

Click to expand...

The tribulation's 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), whereas the day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at his 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't happen until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Similarly, the day of the Lord's wrath (Psalms 110:5) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

So the people quoted at the 6th seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the 6th seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. And just as the writer of the book of Job didn't go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11, and just as the apostles John and Matthew didn't go out of their ways to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a, so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quoted in Revelation 6:17.

After the tribulation's 6th seal will occur its 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come its 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). Note that nothing requires that any of the first 6 trumpets' events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will be God's wrath. The 5th trumpet's events will be the work of weird locust-like beings from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-10) led by a fallen angel from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11). And the 6th trumpet's events to the end of Revelation 9 will be the work of weird horse-like beings led by 4 fallen angels previously bound at the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19). So even though good angels of God will sound the first 6 trumpets, this could be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy 1/3 of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause 1/3 of the angels (i.e. the fallen angels) to be cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:4,9).

Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will happen before the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of the beast's) future, literal 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian/Satanic reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). And the events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the world to welcome that reign. For what he could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then claim that the destruction isn't from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make it suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind (cf. Mark 8:33b). In this way, he could deceive the world into turning away from YHWH and instead worshipping him (the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

After the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year reign (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly-temple opening of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). The vials will then be poured out on the Antichrist's followers as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of people in the church (Revelation 16:6-7, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ himself isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). They will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:15). And all of this will be Satan's wrath against the church (Revelation 12:17), not God's wrath, for the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Even when God's wrath comes in the 7 vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of the vials will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:11,13).

Jesus will return right after the 7th and last vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21, Matthew 24:29-30), and he will bring the 2nd-coming wrath of God on the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21). But before that 2nd-coming wrath begins, the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

iamlamad said in post 150:

However, John has a parenthesis next, the sealing of the 144,000 and John seeing the raptured church in heaven.

Click to expand...

The 144,000 will all be Christians (Revelation 14:1,4), and so they will all be part of the church (cf. Ephesians 4:4-6). They will be the firstfruits of the church (Revelation 14:4) in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12). They will be male virgins (Revelation 14:4), who could all have been born in the 20th or 21st century, and who could all already be part of the church. For they will all be alive on the earth, and will all already be God's servants (Revelation 7:3; cf. Romans 6:22, Philippians 1:1), by the time of Revelation 7:3-8, during the first stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will have entered the tribulation along with the rest of the church alive at that time, for there will be no pre-tribulation rapture (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

The tribe of Dan is missing from the list of the 144,000's twelve tribes (Revelation 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Numbers 1:32, Psalms 78:67, Ezekiel 37:16b,19) because the Israel they're from isn't genetic Israel with its 12 genetic tribes which include Dan (Genesis 49:28,17), but rather spiritual Israel (Romans 9:6-8), which consists of all the elect (Romans 9:11-13), both elect Jews and elect Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

iamlamad said in post 150:

However, John has a parenthesis next, the sealing of the 144,000 and John seeing the raptured church in heaven.

Click to expand...

Revelation 7:9-17 doesn't require a pre-tribulation rapture. For in Revelation 7:9-17 the great multitude can be only that part of the church (Revelation 7:14b) which will enter the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and then come out of it (Revelation 7:14) and enter heaven (Revelation 7:15) by dying (cf. Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8) during the 2nd through 6th seals in the chapter just prior (Revelation 6), the tribulation's first stage.

This would be similar to how the souls of "them that were slain for the word of God", who will be under the altar in heaven at the 5th seal (Revelation 6:9-11), will enter heaven by dying sometime before the 5th seal. And it would be similar to how those in the church who will be on the sea of glass in heaven (Revelation 15:2, cf. Revelation 12:11) at the tribulation's 7 last plagues (Revelation chapters 15-16), the tribulation's final stage, will enter heaven by dying during the just-preceding, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

iamlamad said in post 150:

God MUST seal the 144,000 BEFORE the Day of His wrath can begin. They are sealed for their protection during the trumpet judgments.

Click to expand...

All obedient people in the church will be spiritually protected during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, no matter what happens to them physically (Romans 8:35-37). The 144,000 male-virgins part of the church (Revelation 14:4), along with some others, will be physically protected so that they will survive the tribulation's first stage (Revelation 6), while others will die and their souls will enter heaven (Revelation 7:9,14). Near the end of this first stage, the 144,000 will be sealed (Revelation 7:3-4) for physical protection before the unsealing of the 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). The first 6 trumpets' events, up to Revelation 9:19, will be the tribulation's 2nd stage. The seal which the 144,000 will receive (which will be different from and in addition to the seal of the Holy Spirit himself which they and all others in the church receive: Ephesians 1:13) will physically protect them during this 2nd stage (Revelation 9:4).

After the 2nd stage is over, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church will be caught up in their mortal bodies as the "man child" to God's throne in heaven (Revelation 12:5, Revelation 14:4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:1). Right after the 144,000 are caught up, the tribulation's 3rd stage, the literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will begin (Revelation 12:5-6). This time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 14:9-13).

The 144,000 will remain in heaven before God's throne (Revelation 14:5, Textus Receptus) during the time of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 13:5-18), while two other parts of the church will still be on the earth: the figurative "woman" who represents those in the church who will flee into prepared wilderness places and be physically protected (Revelation 12:6,14), and the remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17), those in the church who will remain in the cities and not be physically protected, but will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

After the Antichrist's reign is declared legally over at the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). These vials will be the tribulation's 4th and final stage (Revelation 16). Because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of these vials will be directed at those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7). So some in the church will survive the entire future tribulation on the earth. They are those who will still be "alive and remain" at Jesus' 2nd coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). These survivors will have experienced God's miraculous physical protection (Psalms 91) without having to have been part of the 144,000.

bibletruth469 said in post 154:

The church is raptured and each person is glorified body at that time. They will partake of the marriage supper of the lamb .

Click to expand...

The 10-virgins parable (Matthew 25:1-13) shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), just like Revelation 19:7 shows that the marriage won't occur until after the (never fulfilled) tribulation, shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 18. The parable's extra oil (Matthew 25:4,9b) could represent the continued good works of believers, by which they will be able to pass the judgment of the church by Jesus (Matthew 25:19-30, Romans 2:6-8) and enter the marriage of the church to Jesus at his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7-21).

The marriage supper (Revelation 19:9) won't have yet begun by the time of Revelation 19, which won't begin until after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (cf. Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). For regarding the church, the marriage supper will be a literal feast in the earthly Jerusalem after the resurrection and marriage of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54). While the church will enjoy a feast "of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined" (Isaiah 25:6), the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's armies defeated at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:17-21).

Also, regarding the 10-virgins parable, in Matthew 25:6 "midnight" could represent mid-tribulation, when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) could be set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). So when it says "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh" (Matthew 25:6), this could mean that at the mid-tribulation point when the abomination of desolation is set up, the church will be given the knowledge of the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' 2nd coming. This date could be the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, cf. Revelation 16:15).

*******

bibletruth469 said in post 155:

Yes, there will be two groups of people in the 1000 year period . Those with glorified bodies and those with mortal bodies. Those with glorified bodies include the church and the tribulation martyrs .

Click to expand...

The saints who will be in the tribulation will be the church, for they will be believers in Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 7:9,14, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6). Those in the church who will be in the tribulation could include most of the believers alive today, for there will be no pre-tribulation rapture (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Matthew 24:29-31).

Also, Matthew 24 was addressed privately to only believers (Matthew 24:3,4,9), and in Jesus' mind all believers of all times are one (John 17:20-21, Ephesians 4:4-6). The entire book of Revelation was likewise addressed to only believers (Revelation 1:1-4, Revelation 22:16). Just as the (mistaken) pre-tribulation-rapture view admits that, for example, John 14 and Matthew 24's parallel chapter of Luke 21 can apply to those in the church today (e.g. Luke 21:36, John 14:3), so the pre-tribulation-rapture view should be able to admit that Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 can apply to those in the church today.

Matthew 24:9-13 refers to the future killing of Christians, those who will be hated and killed for the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9) in every nation of the earth during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Matthew 24:9-13 shows that not all Christians will continue to love Jesus during that time, but some Christians' love for him will grow cold because of their unrepentant sin (Matthew 24:12; 1 Timothy 4:1-2; 2 Timothy 4:3-4) or because they will become offended (Matthew 24:10) that he's letting them suffer in the tribulation (Matthew 13:21, Isaiah 8:21-22; 1 Peter 4:12-13). Only those Christians who continue to love Jesus to the end will be ultimately saved (Matthew 24:13).

bibletruth469 said in post 155:

The resurrections fall in stages. 1) at the rapture 2) tribulation martyrs 3) Old Testament saints . All will receive glorified bodies but at different times.

Click to expand...

All the obedient believers who died during Old Testament times are now part of the church in heaven (Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24), for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6). And 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Peter 3:18c-19, and Ephesians 4:9 show that there was a post-resurrection descent of Jesus into Hades to preach the fulfillment of the gospel (of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) to the souls of the dead in Hades, after which preaching, Jesus ascended into heaven with all the souls of those in Hades who had died in faith (Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24).

And 1 Thessalonians 3:13 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 show that at Jesus' 2nd coming, the souls of all obedient dead believers of all times will be brought down from the 3rd heaven with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), and their souls will descend to the earth and their bodies will resurrect/rise from their graves (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then they and all believers who will survive the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 on the earth (those who will still be "alive and remain") will be raptured up high into the air above the places all around the globe where they will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17a), and then they will be gathered together from the sky (the first heaven) all around the globe (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) to the one place in the sky where the returned Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17b), which will be right above Jerusalem, before he sets his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5, Acts 1:11-12).

It's because of this 2nd-coming rapture into the sky, and then the gathering to where in the sky Jesus will be (and then the marriage of the obedient part of the church there to Jesus: Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), that the obedient part of the church will already be with Jesus when he subsequently descends from the sky (the first heaven) to the earth (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 17:14, Zechariah 14:5c,4).

n2thelight said in post 160:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 15:50 refers to people in mortal/corruptible flesh and blood bodies, as opposed to people in immortal/incorruptible resurrection "flesh and bone" bodies (possibly without blood as we know it) like Jesus was resurrected into (Luke 24:39; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25).

1 Corinthians 15:50 means that people in mortal bodies won't inherit the eternal (as opposed to the millennial) aspect of the kingdom of God, which will be on the new earth in the descended New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1 to 22:15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7 to 22:15).

1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies will inherit the millennial aspect of the kingdom. For the elect Jews who won't become believers until Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:25-29, Zechariah 12:10-14) could inherit the millennial aspect of the kingdom (Zechariah 14:5-21, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30) in their mortal bodies. For the resurrection/changing of believers into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) could be experienced only by those who had become believers before the 2nd coming.

Also, 1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies will even enter the millennial aspect of the kingdom, i.e. without inheriting it. For just as people can enter someone's house and stay there for awhile without inheriting that house, so the people left alive at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:39b-40) who won't get saved at that time will enter the millennial aspect of the kingdom in their mortal bodies without inheriting the kingdom. Instead, they will be its forced subjects (Zechariah 14:16-19, Psalms 66:3), ruled over with a rod of iron by Jesus and the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2).

Similarly, 1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies can even enter the 3rd-heaven aspect of the kingdom, i.e. without inheriting it. For at the time of Revelation 11:11-12, the two witnesses will be in resuscitated mortal bodies, like, e.g., the resuscitated mortal bodies of Lazarus and Tabitha (John 11:43-44, Acts 9:36-40). For the resurrection of believers into immortal bodies won't happen until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't occur until after the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 is over (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And when Revelation 11:12 shows that the two witnesses will ascend "up" to the 3rd heaven in their mortal bodies, it doesn't say that they will inherit the 3rd heaven, just as when Paul says that he at one point during his lifetime could have been taken to the 3rd heaven in his mortal body (2 Corinthians 12:2-7), he doesn't say that he inherited the 3rd heaven, and just as when Enoch and Elijah were taken to the 3rd heaven in their mortal bodies (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11), it doesn't say that they inherited the 3rd heaven.

n2thelight said in post 160:

Now what does "it is raised a spiritual body" mean?

Click to expand...

When obedient believers' bodies will be raised/resurrected into spiritual/heavenly bodies (1 Corinthians 15:44-49), they will still be fleshly bodies, but no longer "natural" (i.e. no longer mortal) fleshly bodies (1 Corinthians 15:44,53). Instead, they will be immortal fleshly bodies like Jesus was raised/resurrected into (Luke 24:39; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25) by the spiritual/heavenly power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11,23-25, Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:44).

Believers need to be careful not to be deceived by the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7), and that believers won't forever be in the flesh. The Bible shows that Jesus Christ wasn't resurrected as a disembodied spirit, but in his human, flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39, Hebrews 2:17). That's why his tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and why he still has the wounds of the crucifixion on his resurrection body (John 20:25-29). And Luke 24:39 didn't stop being true once Jesus ascended into heaven. For he will remain forever the human mediator/high priest of believers (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 7:24-26), in human flesh, just like they are in human flesh (Hebrews 2:17). And when he returns, he will still have the wounds of the crucifixion on his resurrection body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

Gnosticism mistakenly thinks that flesh is evil in itself, and that only that which is pure spirit can be good. But Jesus proves that flesh isn't evil in itself, for he has been made flesh (John 1:1,14, Romans 1:3, Luke 24:39), and remains wholly without sin (Hebrews 4:15). Genesis also proves that flesh isn't evil in itself, but was created by God as something very good (Genesis 1:31). Adam and Eve were flesh, for they were the progenitors of the human race alive today. And they were immortal before they fell into sin, for it was only their falling into sin which made them become mortal (Genesis 2:17). So Adam and Eve started out as immortal flesh. And so the future resurrection or changing of saved people into immortal flesh bodies like Jesus has (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39, Romans 8:23-25) will be God allowing them to partake of the original, immortal-flesh condition of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden before their fall into sin.

Also, beware of the more-general Gnostic lie that even the entire physical universe is evil in itself, and that only a purely-spiritual heaven can be good. For this lie is employed by Gnosticism to revile the Creator YHWH God as some sort of evil, tyrant, lesser god, whom Gnosticism says created the physical universe as a foul prison house for the free spirits of humans, whom Gnosticism says by some mistake fell from a purely-spiritual heaven into the physical universe and became trapped in fleshly bodies. No doubt the coming Antichrist will employ this lie as part of his utter reviling of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). But Genesis shows that our physical world was created by YHWH as something very good (Genesis 1:31).

And the Bible shows that the whole plan of Creation wasn't that humans, who are both flesh and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23, Luke 24:39), would become purely-spiritual ghosts and float forever on clouds in a purely-spiritual heaven with God, but that God would become both flesh and spirit like man (John 1:1,14), and that God would ultimately come down from heaven to live with man on a future, new earth (Revelation 21:1-4), just as God had walked on the earth in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:8). Also, on the new earth, saved humanity will be allowed to eat from the tree of life (Revelation 2:7, Revelation 22:2,14), just as Adam and Eve hadn't been forbidden to eat from it in their unfallen state (Genesis 2:9,16,17). So, with regard to saved people, God will completely undo the effect of the fall of Adam and Eve. Saved people will be able to live in an earthly, physical paradise forever with God (Revelation 2:7), just as Adam and Eve and their descendants might have done had not Adam and Eve fallen into sin.

So beware the Gnostic lie. Beware the Antichrist.

Random person proposed some questions towards me about the resurrection of the righteous and what happens to them in the millennium . I was only answering the questions. I did not go into enough detail to explain the whole process of what will happen in regards to the judgements and the unrighteous ones in that time period . More to follow...

random person said:

This is why I read the NASB!

Ephesians 3:2 - Bible Gateway

Click to expand...

It makes little difference. There IS a church age, just as there was a time BEFORE the law, then a time OF Law, then a time of IMMANUEL, and then the age of the church. Just as the others came and ended, so will the age of the church end, at the rapture. Time will then revert back to Daniel's 70th week, to FINISH the time of LAW, and usher in the Millennial Kingdom of Christ.

I will agree; that verse seems a better translation in the NASB or Amplified.

LAMAD

bibletruth469 said:

The church age( age of grace) as some people call it will close at the rapture. The church itself( saints within the church) will rule and reign with Christ got the 1000 years. Rev 20. Then once that period is complete, the saints will be forever with Jesus in the new heaven and the new earth. Rev 21.

Click to expand...

Dispensationalists are entitled to an opinion.

But what you wrote is so far from what "faith" means to me.

One should never form their doctrine on 1) the parables alone and more importantly, 2) on obscure figurative language in Revelation.

We look first and foremost at the clear and straightforward scriptures in order to have proper Biblical hermeneutics.

Without the proper hermeneutic (system for Biblical interpretation) one has only an eisegesis ( a projection of their personal opinions) of any of the Text.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Let's look at your post realistically too.

You opine that the "saints rule and reign in a millennium kingdom"

Not only is that "doctrinal" opinion only based on the obscurity in Rev20- but you don't even have proof that Rev.20 says what you claim!
What is written says, The saints lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The testimony of Jesus in Rev.20 never says "they lived and reigned with Him a thousand years on earth.!!"

There's a reason the inspired scripture leaves out "on earth."

It's to prove our point, for one!

It's bc the phrase is figurative and prophetic.

Dispensationals are "adding" to the Text.

And by doing so, they create a thousand years that not many can believe when they actually read Rev.20.

Rom.5:
17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

So, if we were to agree with you- then Christians would not have free grace nor His righteousness NOW!

I reject that!

Bible2 said:

1 Corinthians 15:50 refers to people in mortal/corruptible flesh and blood bodies, as opposed to people in immortal/incorruptible resurrection "flesh and bone" bodies (possibly without blood as we know it) like Jesus was resurrected into (Luke 24:39; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25).

1 Corinthians 15:50 means that people in mortal bodies won't inherit the eternal (as opposed to the millennial) aspect of the kingdom of God, which will be on the new earth in the descended New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1 to 22:15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7 to 22:15).

1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies will inherit the millennial aspect of the kingdom. For the elect Jews who won't become believers until Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:25-29, Zechariah 12:10-14) could inherit the millennial aspect of the kingdom (Zechariah 14:5-21, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30) in their mortal bodies. For the resurrection/changing of believers into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) could be experienced only by those who had become believers before the 2nd coming.

Also, 1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies will even enter the millennial aspect of the kingdom, i.e. without inheriting it. For just as people can enter someone's house and stay there for awhile without inheriting that house, so the people left alive at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:39b-40) who won't get saved at that time will enter the millennial aspect of the kingdom in their mortal bodies without inheriting the kingdom. Instead, they will be its forced subjects (Zechariah 14:16-19, Psalms 66:3), ruled over with a rod of iron by Jesus and the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2).

Similarly, 1 Corinthians 15:50 doesn't require that no people in mortal bodies can even enter the 3rd-heaven aspect of the kingdom, i.e. without inheriting it. For at the time of Revelation 11:11-12, the two witnesses will be in resuscitated mortal bodies, like, e.g., the resuscitated mortal bodies of Lazarus and Tabitha (John 11:43-44, Acts 9:36-40). For the resurrection of believers into immortal bodies won't happen until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't occur until after the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 is over (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And when Revelation 11:12 shows that the two witnesses will ascend "up" to the 3rd heaven in their mortal bodies, it doesn't say that they will inherit the 3rd heaven, just as when Paul says that he at one point during his lifetime could have been taken to the 3rd heaven in his mortal body (2 Corinthians 12:2-7), he doesn't say that he inherited the 3rd heaven, and just as when Enoch and Elijah were taken to the 3rd heaven in their mortal bodies (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11), it doesn't say that they inherited the 3rd heaven.



When obedient believers' bodies will be raised/resurrected into spiritual/heavenly bodies (1 Corinthians 15:44-49), they will still be fleshly bodies, but no longer "natural" (i.e. no longer mortal) fleshly bodies (1 Corinthians 15:44,53). Instead, they will be immortal fleshly bodies like Jesus was raised/resurrected into (Luke 24:39; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25) by the spiritual/heavenly power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11,23-25, Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:44).

Believers need to be careful not to be deceived by the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7), and that believers won't forever be in the flesh. The Bible shows that Jesus Christ wasn't resurrected as a disembodied spirit, but in his human, flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39, Hebrews 2:17). That's why his tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and why he still has the wounds of the crucifixion on his resurrection body (John 20:25-29). And Luke 24:39 didn't stop being true once Jesus ascended into heaven. For he will remain forever the human mediator/high priest of believers (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 7:24-26), in human flesh, just like they are in human flesh (Hebrews 2:17). And when he returns, he will still have the wounds of the crucifixion on his resurrection body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

Gnosticism mistakenly thinks that flesh is evil in itself, and that only that which is pure spirit can be good. But Jesus proves that flesh isn't evil in itself, for he has been made flesh (John 1:1,14, Romans 1:3, Luke 24:39), and remains wholly without sin (Hebrews 4:15). Genesis also proves that flesh isn't evil in itself, but was created by God as something very good (Genesis 1:31). Adam and Eve were flesh, for they were the progenitors of the human race alive today. And they were immortal before they fell into sin, for it was only their falling into sin which made them become mortal (Genesis 2:17). So Adam and Eve started out as immortal flesh. And so the future resurrection or changing of saved people into immortal flesh bodies like Jesus has (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39, Romans 8:23-25) will be God allowing them to partake of the original, immortal-flesh condition of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden before their fall into sin.

Also, beware of the more-general Gnostic lie that even the entire physical universe is evil in itself, and that only a purely-spiritual heaven can be good. For this lie is employed by Gnosticism to revile the Creator YHWH God as some sort of evil, tyrant, lesser god, whom Gnosticism says created the physical universe as a foul prison house for the free spirits of humans, whom Gnosticism says by some mistake fell from a purely-spiritual heaven into the physical universe and became trapped in fleshly bodies. No doubt the coming Antichrist will employ this lie as part of his utter reviling of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). But Genesis shows that our physical world was created by YHWH as something very good (Genesis 1:31).

And the Bible shows that the whole plan of Creation wasn't that humans, who are both flesh and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23, Luke 24:39), would become purely-spiritual ghosts and float forever on clouds in a purely-spiritual heaven with God, but that God would become both flesh and spirit like man (John 1:1,14), and that God would ultimately come down from heaven to live with man on a future, new earth (Revelation 21:1-4), just as God had walked on the earth in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:8). Also, on the new earth, saved humanity will be allowed to eat from the tree of life (Revelation 2:7, Revelation 22:2,14), just as Adam and Eve hadn't been forbidden to eat from it in their unfallen state (Genesis 2:9,16,17). So, with regard to saved people, God will completely undo the effect of the fall of Adam and Eve. Saved people will be able to live in an earthly, physical paradise forever with God (Revelation 2:7), just as Adam and Eve and their descendants might have done had not Adam and Eve fallen into sin.

So beware the Gnostic lie. Beware the Antichrist.

Click to expand...

Beware of the propaganda about Gnosticism, too. There's a flood of that too.

And BTW, I see 4 posts, some as long as my left arm, and I seriously got lost while reading, err, I seriously got lost, well, both really. I cannot imagine anybody coming to a logical conclusion after reading your book. The way that I see it is that it's a good approach to confuse the reader into believing something that they can't understand, sort of like signing a mortgage contract. It's like going on a Sunday drive with you in a small sports car and no seat belts, traveling well over the speed limit, and your hitch-hiker is crying out for you to stop the car, and let them out. I'm out before the ride is over.

Thanks

iamlamad said:

It makes little difference. There IS a church age, just as there was a time BEFORE the law, then a time OF Law, then a time of IMMANUEL, and then the age of the church. Just as the others came and ended, so will the age of the church end, at the rapture. Time will then revert back to Daniel's 70th week, to FINISH the time of LAW, and usher in the Millennial Kingdom of Christ.

I will agree; that verse seems a better translation in the NASB or Amplified.

LAMAD

Click to expand...

Saying the age of the church will end or come to an end is contradicting scripture.

The church never ends. (Eph.3:21)

SG9 said:

Beware of the propaganda about Gnosticism, too. There's a flood of that too.

And BTW, I see 4 posts, some as long as my left arm, and I seriously got lost while reading, err, I seriously got lost, well, both really. I cannot imagine anybody coming to a logical conclusion after reading your book. The way that I see it is that it's a good approach to confuse the reader into believing something that they can't understand, sort of like signing a mortgage contract. It's like going on a Sunday drive with you in a small sports car and no seat belts, traveling well over the speed limit, and your hitch-hiker is crying out for you to stop the car, and let them out. I'm out before the ride is over.

Thanks

Click to expand...

I had someone pull Tae Verse Sleight Hando in a thread once recently.

*imagine my hands waving all mystically all up in your orbs*

coraline said:

Dispensationalists are entitled to an opinion.

But what you wrote is so far from what "faith" means to me.

One should never form their doctrine on 1) the parables alone and more importantly, 2) on obscure figurative language in Revelation.

We look first and foremost at the clear and straightforward scriptures in order to have proper Biblical hermeneutics.

Without the proper hermeneutic (system for Biblical interpretation) one has only an eisegesis ( a projection of their personal opinions) of any of the Text.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Let's look at your post realistically too.

You opine that the "saints rule and reign in a millennium kingdom"

Not only is that "doctrinal" opinion only based on the obscurity in Rev20- but you don't even have proof that Rev.20 says what you claim!
What is written says, The saints lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The testimony of Jesus in Rev.20 never says "they lived and reigned with Him a thousand years on earth.!!"

There's a reason the inspired scripture leaves out "on earth."

It's to prove our point, for one!

It's bc the phrase is figurative and prophetic.

Dispensationals are "adding" to the Text.

And by doing so, they create a thousand years that not many can believe when they actually read Rev.20.

Rom.5:
17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

So, if we were to agree with you- then Christians would not have free grace nor His righteousness NOW!

I reject that!

Click to expand...

Dispensation, IMO, is mis-applied in prophecy I've noticed; in a sense of the dispensation of the Holy Spirit? The Word? Is it the covering of a world in a particular time? A people?

I suppose that there are too many ways to see this, and even think of what it can possibly mean, and then, in regards to a thousand years, etc/

I just wrote a post about the 'Everlasting to Everlasting' prophecy of Psalms 90:2, and it might just be relevant to scripture, perhaps?

Let's compare from this perspective, and see if it makes any better sense of it all: IMO, the 'dispensation' in context is a covering of two time periods, and are defined by the two 'Everlastings' spoken of in the prophecy, it goes like this in short, "From everlasting to everlasting, thou art G-d."

There are cool clues in these few words spoken by a prophet. He sees the Two as Two beginnings, and Two endings, as well. G-d is First and Last therefore He is in Both, and present Both Times. This means that the Father and the Son are both present, and the Father is Spirit, and the Son is flesh.

The Two are one, and we must worship G-d (which are both) in Spirit, and in Truth; the Spirit means to worship the Father in His Image by reflecting Him, and the Truth is the Word, which is the Son, and in Flesh, and in both TIMES of the Beginning, and the Ending. The Beginning is the Father seen in the Son whom is the Ending.

Now, here's the Word that divides, and we will know what was Finished on the Cross, as well. The reason why this, and that don't compute is because of any one confusion, and such in what was 'finished' in the Cross. The 'Law' of G-d is under serious attack but not as the world is seeing it, in all senses, as well.

The agenda is to trodden G-d in all ways possible, and more than man can see. This is the gist of the story, now, there are Two things to consider, and many parallel's so to identify also, the Two Witnesses, and their exact form, etc. There are a number of issues that all relate, and are all affected by the confusion over the 'Law'.

What was finished on the Cross was the First, as in the 'First' and the Last. This is the Image of the Father, and it was made into a NEW Image on the Cross, and in the form of Flesh. This flesh also died and was raised again in believers albeit the Lord had to leave this earth for a period of time for us to cleanse by repentance.

The Christ on the Cross finished the First Beginning while giving Birth to the Second, which was crucified in Flesh only to return in both Spirit, and in Truth. This says that they both Return together, in Spirit/spirit, and in Truth/flesh. This says that Truth comes in Glorified Flesh, just as He left, He shall return.

The Christ brought a New Seed, a Spark of the past that was Born of the First Seed whom is the Father. The Christ was the New Beginning then, and the Eighth day began only to end with the Eighth day. The Seventh-day ends on the Seventh-day, etc. The idea is that the first seed died, it was buried and again, it sprouted but it died and went to heaven in spirit while the seed of flesh remain in the earth, whom is the mother.

The Spirit comes again from Heaven, and is born again in flesh, and this is only possible because Christ has been raised from the dead, and He can do it time, and time again. G-d does not die after the First resurrection, nor does the Seed. The resurrection was the birth of a new Seed that was an offspring of the First Seed, the Father.

The Son must come again in flesh, and with the Spirit of the Father so to bring the Ending of what He began again on the Cross. From the time of Christ until now is approximately two-thousand years, and each being a 'thousand' years, Christ Finished the first, while beginning the Second on the Cross.

Now, what does He have to Finish? He's not done, yet, and to teach anything else is to deny Christ, the Father, the Holy Spirit, and their Return in Flesh. If any believe that Christ came in the flesh then should now know that it's always the same story, and it never ends, lest G-d dies. False doctrines kill G-d!

The First of the Last is to come again with the Ending of the First. I wonder if it is the Beginning, which is the Ancient of Days that the world is frightened of or is it the Ending, which is the Son of Man come in flesh to Judge the world that they are frightened of?

Coming to either conclusion is a sign of hope, at least ends, it's either hot or cold, and not lukewarm. IMHO, to remain lukewarm is to 'not think about it'.

The image of the two thousand years of the time in heaven is a parallel to the image of the Two Witnesses, which are all of the heaven come to earth in both Spirit and flesh, and in One man. A new Revelation must come before the End of the Second coming comes to begin a new Beginning, that will be like unto the First, again. The New Revelation is the Seed of Abraham Born, again.

The man comes as King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, and He rules over all of the nations. It doesn't appear to me that the world is driving in the right direction, and they keep overlooking the turn-off, and going in circles, while looking for the turn-off. Why is this? Because the directions were left lying on the seat and the paper blew out of the window, and now there are no directions home. The driver went back to retrieve the lost paper but it was then lost among all of the street trash and the seeker couldn't remember what it looked like or what it said, so they picked up what seemed to be the best of their choice so that they would go on and believe that they have it.

Well, a day comes when they receive a newspaper that they hadn't subscribed to, it was a free flyer that contained that which was first lost, and forgotten but the reader still had no clue what they hold in their hand. Perhaps, if they read it, it might be better than going by what has been learned on the other hand? (left hand, that is)

Thanks Just speaking, and thinking out loud.

random person said:

I had someone pull Tae Verse Sleight Hando in a thread once recently.

*imagine my hands waving all mystically all up in your orbs*

Click to expand...

Do you mean like this? If so, it wasn't intended to persuade your mind, you should have control over that much, I pray. Thanks

SG9 said:

Dispensation, IMO, is mis-applied in prophecy I've noticed; in a sense of the dispensation of the Holy Spirit? The Word? Is it the covering of a world in a particular time? A people?

I suppose that there are too many ways to see this, and even think of what it can possibly mean, and then, in regards to a thousand years, etc/

I just wrote a post about the 'Everlasting to Everlasting' prophecy of Psalms 90:2, and it might just be relevant to scripture, perhaps?

Let's compare from this perspective, and see if it makes any better sense of it all: IMO, the 'dispensation' in context is a covering of two time periods, and are defined by the two 'Everlastings' spoken of in the prophecy, it goes like this in short, "From everlasting to everlasting, thou art G-d."

There are cool clues in these few words spoken by a prophet. He sees the Two as Two beginnings, and Two endings, as well. G-d is First and Last therefore He is in Both, and present Both Times. This means that the Father and the Son are both present, and the Father is Spirit, and the Son is flesh.

The Two are one, and we must worship G-d (which are both) in Spirit, and in Truth; the Spirit means to worship the Father in His Image by reflecting Him, and the Truth is the Word, which is the Son, and in Flesh, and in both TIMES of the Beginning, and the Ending. The Beginning is the Father seen in the Son whom is the Ending.

Now, here's the Word that divides, and we will know what was Finished on the Cross, as well. The reason why this, and that don't compute is because of any one confusion, and such in what was 'finished' in the Cross. The 'Law' of G-d is under serious attack but not as the world is seeing it, in all senses, as well.

The agenda is to trodden G-d in all ways possible, and more than man can see. This is the gist of the story, now, there are Two things to consider, and many parallel's so to identify also, the Two Witnesses, and their exact form, etc. There are a number of issues that all relate, and are all affected by the confusion over the 'Law'.

What was finished on the Cross was the First, as in the 'First' and the Last. This is the Image of the Father, and it was made into a NEW Image on the Cross, and in the form of Flesh. This flesh also died and was raised again in believers albeit the Lord had to leave this earth for a period of time for us to cleanse by repentance.

The Christ on the Cross finished the First Beginning while giving Birth to the Second, which was crucified in Flesh only to return in both Spirit, and in Truth. This says that they both Return together, in Spirit/spirit, and in Truth/flesh. This says that Truth comes in Glorified Flesh, just as He left, He shall return.

The Christ brought a New Seed, a Spark of the past that was Born of the First Seed whom is the Father. The Christ was the New Beginning then, and the Eighth day began only to end with the Eighth day. The Seventh-day ends on the Seventh-day, etc. The idea is that the first seed died, it was buried and again, it sprouted but it died and went to heaven in spirit while the seed of flesh remain in the earth, whom is the mother.

The Spirit comes again from Heaven, and is born again in flesh, and this is only possible because Christ has been raised from the dead, and He can do it time, and time again. G-d does not die after the First resurrection, nor does the Seed. The resurrection was the birth of a new Seed that was an offspring of the First Seed, the Father.

The Son must come again in flesh, and with the Spirit of the Father so to bring the Ending of what He began again on the Cross. From the time of Christ until now is approximately two-thousand years, and each being a 'thousand' years, Christ Finished the first, while beginning the Second on the Cross.

Now, what does He have to Finish? He's not done, yet, and to teach anything else is to deny Christ, the Father, the Holy Spirit, and their Return in Flesh. If any believe that Christ came in the flesh then should now know that it's always the same story, and it never ends, lest G-d dies. False doctrines kill G-d!

The First of the Last is to come again with the Ending of the First. I wonder if it is the Beginning, which is the Ancient of Days that the world is frightened of or is it the Ending, which is the Son of Man come in flesh to Judge the world that they are frightened of?

Coming to either conclusion is a sign of hope, at least ends, it's either hot or cold, and not lukewarm. IMHO, to remain lukewarm is to 'not think about it'.

The image of the two thousand years of the time in heaven is a parallel to the image of the Two Witnesses, which are all of the heaven come to earth in both Spirit and flesh, and in One man. A new Revelation must come before the End of the Second coming comes to begin a new Beginning, that will be like unto the First, again. The New Revelation is the Seed of Abraham Born, again.

The man comes as King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, and He rules over all of the nations. It doesn't appear to me that the world is driving in the right direction, and they keep overlooking the turn-off, and going in circles, while looking for the turn-off. Why is this? Because the directions were left lying on the seat and the paper blew out of the window, and now there are no directions home. The driver went back to retrieve the lost paper but it was then lost among all of the street trash and the seeker couldn't remember what it looked like or what it said, so they picked up what seemed to be the best of their choice so that they would go on and believe that they have it.

Well, a day comes when they receive a newspaper that they hadn't subscribed to, it was a free flyer that contained that which was first lost, and forgotten but the reader still had no clue what they hold in their hand. Perhaps, if they read it, it might be better than going by what has been learned on the other hand? (left hand, that is)

Thanks Just speaking, and thinking out loud.

Click to expand...

I don't agree that Christ was to return in the flesh again.

There would be no reason for that again.

SG9 said:

Do you mean like this? If so, it wasn't intended to persuade your mind, you should have control over that much, I pray. Thanks

Click to expand...

It was very poor word association blown way out of context.

coraline said:

Saying the age of the church will end or come to an end is contradicting scripture.

The church never ends. (Eph.3:21)

Click to expand...

Which do you mean? "the church" or "the AGE of the church?"

"The church" is made up of PEOPLE, the body of Christ on earth, the "the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven." OF COURSE these will never come to and end. But I was not speaking of people, I was speaking of TIME. Did you never read how the door will close?

Matt. 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

Luke 13:25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’

Make NO MISTAKE: the day will come when the door to salvation by regeneration, the born again road, will CLOSE. The rapture will take place, the BRIDE of Christ will rise up, and the Holy Spirit who has filled the Bride will rise with her - the restrainer being "taken out of the way." Suddenly, in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, the door to the wedding will be SHUT, the path to the born again experience will END, and it will be just as it was before Jesus died and rose again.

Those that turn to God during the 70th week will have to do it by will power, just as they did under the Old Covenant.

LAMAD

iamlamad said:

Which do you mean? "the church" or "the AGE of the church?"

"The church" is made up of PEOPLE, the body of Christ on earth, the "the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven." OF COURSE these will never come to and end. But I was not speaking of people, I was speaking of TIME. Did you never read how the door will close?

Matt. 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

Luke 13:25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’

Make NO MISTAKE: the day will come when the door to salvation by regeneration, the born again road, will CLOSE. The rapture will take place, the BRIDE of Christ will rise up, and the Holy Spirit who has filled the Bride will rise with her - the restrainer being "taken out of the way." Suddenly, in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, the door to the wedding will be SHUT, the path to the born again experience will END, and it will be just as it was before Jesus died and rose again.

Those that turn to God during the 70th week will have to do it by will power, just as they did under the Old Covenant.

LAMAD

Click to expand...

No these verses are warning Christians and everyone else to be ready because once Christ comes it will have been too late for your salvation. You will cast out into the outer darkness where there will be gnashing of teeth.

coraline said:

I don't agree that Christ was to return in the flesh again.

There would be no reason for that again.

Click to expand...

Exactly, and it's because the world is of the Gentile mindset that is flipped upside down, and they see it just the opposite; what is spiritual is natural, and visa verse. thanks Ya gotta put it all in context, lest you deny Christ, and all of Heaven.

iamlamad said:

Make NO MISTAKE: the day will come when the door to salvation by regeneration, the born again road, will CLOSE. The rapture will take place, the BRIDE of Christ will rise up, and the Holy Spirit who has filled the Bride will rise with her - the restrainer being "taken out of the way." Suddenly, in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, the door to the wedding will be SHUT, the path to the born again experience will END, and it will be just as it was before Jesus died and rose again.

Those that turn to God during the 70th week will have to do it by will power, just as they did under the Old Covenant.

LAMAD

Click to expand...

I agree with this first paragraph. Many people cannot imagine that salvation shall end some day.

I agree with your second statement, which implies that a time of Spiritual desolation shall occur before the final End.

However, I am not sure if you are saying the faithful elect shall have to endure through that Spiritual desolation or have they been Spirited away before it happens?