The Last Day

ebedmelech · Feb 20, 2014

Old Timer said:
Yes, I get it... for you 'not yet' means the exact opposite. Funny how that works, the truth is completely turned around. Now who would want that?

When the word of God says that NOW we see NOT YET all things put under Him... it actually means that all things are already put under him.

Got it.

Actually you don't "Got it"...you're simply responding now, because the Ephesians passage says "He PUT all things" under Jesus feet. WHat you fail to understand is Paul speaks from what we see on earth...which is why people think Christ isn't reigning. It's a matter of viewpoint. Christ has the authority, He just hasn't exercised it because He is still saving a people for His Name!

I also notice you can;t respond to how Satan lost every encounter with Christ in the gospels, yet you think Christ doesn't reign...pretty amazing.

Old Timer said:
I understand, your comments are not complicated at all, they're simply not aligned with scripture.

According to what you think scripture says, they don't align with scripture. It's fine for you to SAY that...but the proof will be in how the future occurs as we move to the coming of Christ, and that day occurs.

Old Timer said:
If you'd like to believe that there are many Days of the Lord then go ahead. Maybe you believe that there are many Lords also, maybe there are all kinds of the Day of Jesus Christ..

I've shown it...you can't accept it. That too is fine...because the future remains, and as it unfolds...so does the truth of it.

So the point is this...we'll see...or not.

Old Timer · Feb 20, 2014

ebedmelech said:
Actually you don't "Got it"...you're simply responding now, because the Ephesians passage says "He PUT all things" under Jesus feet. WHat you fail to understand is Paul speaks from what we see on earth...which is why people think Christ isn't reigning. It's a matter of viewpoint. Christ has the authority, He just hasn't exercised it because He is still saving a people for His Name!

No, I get it.. when the word of God speaks of the world to come and how that now we see not yet all things put under Him.. to you that means that the world to come has come and that all things are already under him.

Again, it's not difficult to understand your beliefs.

I also notice you can;t respond to how Satan lost every encounter with Christ in the gospels, yet you think Christ doesn't reign...pretty amazing.

I simply believe the truth which speaks of the world to come and how that NOW we see NOT YET all things put under Him.

You choose to believe the opposite. No problem, I certainly understand where that comes from.

According to what you think scripture says, they don't align with scripture. It's fine for you to SAY that...but the proof will be in how the future occurs as we move to the coming of Christ, and that day occurs.

As we've pointed out..

I believe that the world to come means exactly that, and that NOW we see not yet all things put under Him..

For you it's the exact opposite.

I've shown it...you can't accept it. That too is fine...because the future remains, and as it unfolds...so does the truth of it.

And it's already been foretold in the prophetic scriptures. If you'd like to believe the opposite of what they teach, then you're welcome to that as I understand where that comes from.

So the point is this...we'll see...or not.

Even when it happens I'm sure there will be plenty of nay sayers.. because we are talking plain teaching here... things like the world to come being twisted into the world that is...

It's not complicated.

yeshuasavedme · Feb 21, 2014

Old Timer said:
First of all, thank you and please by all means correct anything that you might think is incorrect. It's clearly better for the body when correction is welcomed rather than frowned upon as so many today seem to be beyond correction.

Anyway, I had always for some reason thought that there was only one Apostle to the Gentiles.

It's interesting to me that only the twelve Apostles of the Lamb are detailed in Revelation. Would you expouund upon that as to why that is when there are other Apostles which are not included in the twelve?

Thank you. You have a very nice spirit, and no one agrees with everyone on this forum all the time. In fact, I have discovered that I have not agreed with myself, at times, as more light has been shone on areas that were formerly "sealed" but have been opening for understanding in these last days.

Also, some posters have made posts that have been openings for understanding things even when the post did not direct itself to the opening I received through it, but it led to an understanding cause it triggered a thought to make a search about, and I hope others do the same when I might trigger a thought for them to go prove something for themselves.

It's something about the plans for the building being built. The twelve offficial eyewitnesseses of the Gospel in their elected offices will be the names of the twelve foundations of the City of God, which is being built for the Glory, with the gates of entry named after the twelve tribes of Israel, and then layers upon layers/rows upon rows of jewels for pillars named after all the redeemed and adopted sons of God, adopted by the work of the Atonement, who lived from the beginning of creation to the building of the City.

We each get a stone named for us in that city, and it has to start being laid down in its foundation before the next layer can be added and the gates hung on.

-It's a pretty big city, so the "12" foundation stones do not butt up to one another
Malachi 3:16-18
16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Revelation 21

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

BTW: Paul also called James, the womb brother of Jesus, an apostle....there are others named in the NT.

Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles G652 saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Old Timer · Feb 21, 2014

Here's an OT prophecy concerning the future coming Day of the Lord..

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

Crystal clear that this is future... written down by the Spirit of God through the prophets thousands of years ago.

And it remains a future prophecy concerning the coming of Christ with His saints in that Day, the Day of Jesus Christ.

ebedmelech · Feb 21, 2014

Old Timer said:
No, I get it.. when the word of God speaks of the world to come and how that now we see not yet all things put under Him.. to you that means that the world to come has come and that all things are already under him.

Again, it's not difficult to understand your beliefs.

I simply believe the truth which speaks of the world to come and how that NOW we see NOT YET all things put under Him.

You choose to believe the opposite. No problem, I certainly understand where that comes from.

As we've pointed out..

I believe that the world to come means exactly that, and that NOW we see not yet all things put under Him..

For you it's the exact opposite.

And it's already been foretold in the prophetic scriptures. If you'd like to believe the opposite of what they teach, then you're welcome to that as I understand where that comes from.

Even when it happens I'm sure there will be plenty of nay sayers.. because we are talking plain teaching here... things like the world to come being twisted into the world that is...

It's not complicated.

It's not. When you really can't stand up to the scrutiny of scripture, you simply repeat the same thing, to deflect. So carry on...I certainly will.

Old Timer · Feb 21, 2014

yeshuasavedme said:
Thank you. You have a very nice spirit, and no one agrees with everyone on this forum all the time. In fact, I have discovered that I have not agreed with myself, at times, as more light has been shone on areas that were formerly "sealed" but have been opening for understanding in these last days.

Also, some posters have made posts that have been openings for understanding things even when the post did not direct itself to the opening I received through it, but it led to an understanding cause it triggered a thought to make a search about, and I hope others do the same when I might trigger a thought for them to go prove something for themselves.

It's something about the plans for the building being built. The twelve offficial eyewitnesseses of the Gospel in their elected offices will be the names of the twelve foundations of the City of God, which is being built for the Glory, with the gates of entry named after the twelve tribes of Israel, and then layers upon layers/rows upon rows of jewels for pillars named after all the redeemed and adopted sons of God, adopted by the work of the Atonement, who lived from the beginning of creation to the building of the City.

We each get a stone named for us in that city, and it has to start being laid down in its foundation before the next layer can be added and the gates hung on.

-It's a pretty big city, so the "12" foundation stones do not butt up to one another
Malachi 3:16-18
16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

BTW: Paul also called James, the womb brother of Jesus, an apostle....there are others named in the NT.

Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles G652 saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

yeshuasavedme, sometimes my mind races with all of the thoughts that come up. It's great to meditate on these things.

Matthew 19 speaks of the Apostles sitting upon twelve thrones in the regeneration and that's an interesting thought.. the resurrected Apostles ruling over the twelve tribes of Israel in that day...

Old Timer · Feb 21, 2014

It's wondrous to know and embrace the fact that the LORD shall perform that good work which He began in you, even until the Day of Jesus Christ.

Well, at least til one of them

ebedmelech · Feb 21, 2014

Old Timer said:
yeshuasavedme, sometimes my mind races with all of the thoughts that come up. It's great to meditate on these things.

Matthew 19 speaks of the Apostles sitting upon twelve thrones in the regeneration and that's an interesting thought.. the resurrected Apostles ruling over the twelve tribes of Israel in that day...

It sure does...especially when we see Christ sent the apostles into the world to spread the gospel.

So when He sends them into the world starting at Jerusalem...and it's Jerusalem that starts the persecution of the church in Acts 8...it's kind of amazing that people cannot see what the 12 tribes really represent...and this is because they won't resort to the symbols of scripture.

Take the "12 apostles" and how we *should understand their rule in eternity. Revelation 21:14:
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Now...if we read scripture...allowing it to say what it means, this *should bring to mind Ephesians 2:19-22:
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Now I think that speaks for itself...*if* one correlates scripture properly, and allows it to reveal it's meaning.

If you don't do that...you miss the meaning, and think it's a literal passage.

Old Timer · Feb 21, 2014

ebedmelech said:
It sure does...especially when we see Christ sent the apostles into the world to spread the gospel.

Well, if you'd like to strip Matthew 19 from its context of the Lord coming and then sitting upon the throne of His glory (which you have already acknowledged as future), which is at His coming.. then go right ahead.

You'll find that most of Christendom agrees with you.. the RCC, the Orthodox church... huge professing Christian denominations which embrace the nonsense of amillennialism.

Anything to strip the word of that Day, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ..

Well, one of them anyway.

Old Timer · Feb 21, 2014

That's what amillennialism does... it twists the precise living and powerful prophetic word of God into some past nonsense.. especially with respect to 70AD..

Cause let's face it... the god of this present evil world would love the masses to believe that it's not coming, that it's the distant past.. and that THIS is it..

Yeah, as if this is Christ's kingdom.. I have plenty of stuff for sale for those who believe this one.

Bible2 · Feb 21, 2014

ebedmelech said in post 266:

The problem is many don't understand the 1000 year reign of Christ began when He was resurrected. Take Ephesians 1:18-22
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Ephesians 1:18-23 doesn't mean that the millennium is now. For the millennium won't begin until after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And the millennium will be when Jesus and the bodily resurrected church will reign physically on the earth (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

Ephesians 1:22's original Greek can be read as meaning that all things will have been put under Christ's feet by the time of the age to come (i.e. the new earth) in Ephesians 1:21c. For Ephesians 1:22a, like 1 Corinthians 15:27a, is simply a quotation from Psalms 8:6b, which was written in the past tense some thousand years before Christ's first coming. None of the verses mean that God the Father has already (today) put all things under Christ's feet physically, as he will do over the future time from Revelation 19:11 to Revelation 20:15. For "now we see not yet all things put under him" (Hebrews 2:8c), and Paul elsewhere refers to the future time "when all things shall be subdued unto him" (1 Corinthians 15:28), in the sense of physically subdued.

ebedmelech said in post 266:

This again comes from your "eschatalogical view"...a view that ignores the symbolism of scripture, particularly in Revelation, and therefore misses the point of what's really happening.

Revelation is almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning it shouldn't be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

Just as Jesus' 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the preceding tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the millennium in Revelation 20 will be literal, and will begin after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when he will reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

ebedmelech · Feb 21, 2014

Old Timer said:
That's what amillennialism does... it twists the precise living and powerful prophetic word of God into some past nonsense.. especially with respect to 70AD..

That's what you think it does. But you have yet to show that...you just have the "futurist paradigm block", that won't allow you to see scripture just for what it says. You didn't deal with Matthew 19, Ephesians 2, or Revelation 21 on the merit of what I said, you just dismiss it. That's kind of like the "gap" in Daniels 70 weeks...it's not there but futurist put it there (especially dispensationalism).

However let's leave you with Hebrews 1:8
8 But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.

Old Timer said:
Cause let's face it... the god of this present evil world would love the masses to believe that it's not coming, that it's the distant past.. and that THIS is it..

Actually that's pretty ridiculous...eschatology doesn't save...Christ does so that's pretty much bogus to even say.

Old Timer said:
Yeah, as if this is Christ's kingdom.. I have plenty of stuff for sale for those who believe this one.

Not a problem. Was it not Jesus who told Pilate "MY kingdom is not of this world", does Paul not tell us the "kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit?

ebedmelech · Feb 21, 2014

Bible2 said:
Ephesians 1:18-23 doesn't mean that the millennium is now. For the millennium won't begin until after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And the millennium will be when Jesus and the bodily resurrected church will reign physically on the earth (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

Ephesians 1:22's original Greek can be read as meaning that all things will have been put under Christ's feet by the time of the age to come (i.e. the new earth) in Ephesians 1:21c. For Ephesians 1:22a, like 1 Corinthians 15:27a, is simply a quotation from Psalms 8:6b, which was written in the past tense some thousand years before Christ's first coming. None of the verses mean that God the Father has already (today) put all things under Christ's feet physically, as he will do over the future time from Revelation 19:11 to Revelation 20:15. For "now we see not yet all things put under him" (Hebrews 2:8c), and Paul elsewhere refers to the future time "when all things shall be subdued unto him" (1 Corinthians 15:28), in the sense of physically subdued.

Revelation is almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning it shouldn't be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

Just as Jesus' 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the preceding tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the millennium in Revelation 20 will be literal, and will begin after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when he will reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

Bible2 we been there...

Old Timer · Feb 21, 2014

Connect Matthew 25:31

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory

with Matt 19:27-30

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my names sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

To see that the Lord shall sit upon the throne of his glory when he comes in his glory, and that the Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

No interpretation at all here. Just the plain truth for all to see. There's not some super spiritual alternative meaning to anything stated here.

We also know from Matt 25 that the sheep shall then enter into the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world.

In that (Last) Day, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.

Old Timer · Feb 21, 2014

And oh what a Day it shall be..

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

How truly amazing it shall be to enter into his day of rest..

Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

iamlamad · Feb 21, 2014

Old Timer said:
One of the most spectacular events which will take place in that last day is this..

The nation of Israel shall be delivered..

Not destroyed, but rather delivered.. taken through the most unimaginable time that this world will ever know.

What strikes me as rather amazing (and yet it shouldn't be) is that huge numbers of Christians are being indoctrinated into the exact opposite.

That the destruction of Jerusalem was the time of the end..

Pretty soon it will most likely be outrageous to believe what the bible actually teaches, especially with respect to its prophetic truth concerning Israel.

Which happens to be the very foundation of the church of God, along with the twelve Jewish Apostles of the Lamb.. And of course the only Apostle to the Gentiles, The Apostle Paul.

TRUTH!

LAMAD

ebedmelech · Feb 21, 2014

Peter made it very clear that Jesus is already on the throne in Pentecost sermon. Acts 2:32-36:
32 This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
34 For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand,
35 Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”’
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

So Jesus "sitting on His glorious throne" is already happening. In Matthew 25 Jesus is bringing that position to earth as He comes to executes judgment.

As for Israel Jesus is their deliverance. no doubt about that, but it has nothing to do with the land or restoring Israel to some prominent position in the world. The apostles nor Jesus make that point.

When the apostles asked Jesus in Acts 1 "Is it now that you would restore the kingdom to Israel?", this is what Jesus said...Acts 1:7, 8
7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”
Jesus said nothing of Israel being restored...neither does the apostles.

Old Timer · Feb 21, 2014

Maybe people just don't believe that the Lord is coming back... right here, on earth.

I don't know.

I don't understand how anyone can read the simple truth with respect to him coming and then sitting upon the throne of his glory.. and then pretend it says something else entirely.

Where do people think he is coming to.. Boston?

The Deliverer shall come and turn ungodliness from JACOB... remember that guy... the one named Israel after wrestling with the man all night?

People just don't believe it.. just like they can't believe the simple biblical fact that his apostles will also be sitting upon twelve thrones and judging the twelve tribes of Israel in that Day.

I guess it's anything but the truth..

SG9 · Feb 21, 2014

The world is flipped and thinks that it is looking up, and if it were to notice this and look down, they will then see the 'Fly swatter' coming down and just above their head's. Thanks

ebedmelech · Feb 21, 2014

Old Timer said:
Maybe people just don't believe that the Lord is coming back... right here, on earth.

Perhaps because you don't read very well. No one said the throne wouldn't come to earth. The point made was Jesus was seated on the throne after He was raised. Just a few scriptures that make the point:

*Acts 2:33:
33 Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.

Do you understand what beong "exalted to the right of God means?

Ephesians 1:20, 21
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Old Timer said:
I don't know.

I do. Read what one says. Don't read into what they say. I didn't disagree with you. I simply pointed out that Jesus has been on the throne since He was resurrected...and pointed out the throne COMES TO EARTH with Him when He returns.

Old Timer said:
I don't understand how anyone can read the simple truth with respect to him coming and then sitting upon the throne of his glory.. and then pretend it says something else entirely.

I do...learn to read properly.

Old Timer said:
Where do people think he is coming to.. Boston?

The Deliverer shall come and turn ungodliness from JACOB... remember that guy... the one named Israel after wrestling with the man all night?

Try reading ALL of scripture...not just your "pet passages". Now let Hebrews define "Zion" more clearly for you...Hebrews 12:22. 23:
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

So that's how you don't see it...because you don't get that "Zion" is in heaven..as that passage clearly tells you. Have you ever read ALL of the bible, or just the passages you're taught from?

Old Timer said:
People just don't believe it.. just like they can't believe the simple biblical fact that his apostles will also be sitting upon twelve thrones and judging the twelve tribes of Israel in that Day.

Yes...the "Israel of God"...you'll find out soon enough though, since you won't read all of scripture.

I wonder why Peter calls the church the "CHOSEN RACE, a ROYAL PRIESHOOD,
a PEOPLE OF GOD'S OWN POSSESSION. Has it even entered your mind that that's what God called Israel in the OT?

Old Timer said:
I guess it's anything but the truth..

Or what you have been taught is "truth". Perhaps you don't search it throughout the scriptures...

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