The knowledge of good and evil

[bricklayer]

Good is what God is; evil is what God is not.
Good and evil are not created; they are revealed.
The revelation of evil reveals what God is not.
Sin reveals evil.
The law reveals sin.
Salvation from the wages of sin reveals grace.
Grace reveals the true extent of the good that God is.

God revealed both good and evil because God is revealed just as much by what He is not as He is by what He is.

 

[prov1810]

The tree of life was next to the tree of knowledge of good and evil (benefit and harm). Our first parents could have taken what God provided but they wanted to live by their own knowledge.

They also defied God's rule to make their own rules about moral good and evil.

And maybe they thought that knowing what it's like to disobey would be more knowledge than what they had, but it was depravity. They were estranged from goodness and wisdom.

Taking this a bit further, maybe it means, "You will know good and evil, you will be legislators, you will be judges, you will be gods." The power over others in assuming that they are accountable to you, as if you created them and own them, this usurps God's role and that's what the enemy has always tried to do.

 

[bricklayer]

The tree of life was next to the tree of knowledge of good and evil (benefit and harm). Our first parents could have taken what God provided but they wanted to live by their own knowledge.

They also defied God's rule to make their own rules about moral good and evil.

And maybe they thought that knowing what it's like to disobey would be more knowledge than what they had, but it was depravity. They were estranged from goodness and wisdom.

Taking this a bit further, maybe it means, "You will know good and evil, you will be legislators, you will be judges, you will be gods." The power over others in assuming that they are accountable to you, as if you created them and own them, this usurps God's role and that's what the enemy has always tried to do.

They already knew good. Good is all they knew. It was evil that was revealed by their sin.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

 

[AmericanSamurai]

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? Amos 3:6

 

[bricklayer]

Denise and I are teaching these ideas to the children at church. We had a great time this morning.

Today we played a game with the kids that is not too unlike charades except that they could talk, but the only clues they could say were about what the secret thing was not. The kids quite quickly learned that it is just as easy to describe a thing by what it is not as it is by what it is.

It was the game that allowed the kids to understand why God wants us to know what He is and is not. If you were to ask any kid in our church why there is evil, sin, bad stuff and the like, they would tell you that it's because God wants us to know what He is not.

They now understand that:
Good is what God is; evil is what God is not. God wants us to know Him the best way we can, so God wants us to know what He is and what He is not.

I can't put words to the emotions involved with participating in such a foundational understanding at such a foundational time in their lives.
Suffice it to say that it's a good feeling.

Next week, we begin to breach the idea that if we did not know what God is not, we could not know how good God is. If we did not know evil we could not know grace, and it's grace that reveals how good God is.

 

[prov1810]

If you were to ask any kid in our church why there is evil, sin, bad stuff and the like, they would tell you that it's because God wants us to know what He is not.

What Scriptures are used to teach this idea?

 

[bricklayer]

What Scriptures are used to teach this idea?

Are you familiar with Jesus asking the man that called Him "good teacher" why he called Him good because only God is good?

I would not point to a bible verse that says that God is good and tell them that's why they should believe that God is good. On the other hand, that's obviously where I got the idea that God is good. If I claimed to have never read the bible and come up with it on my own, you would not believe me.

We do not teach the children that the bible is the proof of ideas about God.
We teach them that the bible is the most important sourse of ideas about God.
We teach them that the ideas we get from the bible must be tested by God, and that's why Mommies and Daddies go to bible studies and pray and talk about what they read in the bible.

Biblical support or refute must come from contextual biblical familiarity. Cut and paste support is not practiced in our church. If that's what you're asking.

 

[prov1810]

I would not point to a bible verse that says that God is good

We can only be sure of our doctrines when we take them from the Bible. If the Bible did not say that God is good (it does - ps. 118 etc) then we might assume that God is a cacodaemon or Gnostic demiurge. The Bible is our proof that such ideas are false.

 

[bricklayer]

We can only be sure of our doctrines when we take them from the Bible. If the Bible did not say that God is good (it does - ps. 118 etc) then we might assume that God is a cacodaemon or Gnostic demiurge. The Bible is our proof that such ideas are false.

One can discern that God is good without the bible, and many do.

The bible proves nothing. Truth is implied; proof is inferred. The source of an inference is not a good measure of its accuracy; however the source of an implication is.
There are, however, ideas about God that are only implied in the bible.

There is an indispensable distinction, even when there is no difference, between what is implied and what is inferred. What the bible implies is true, but what we infer must be tested to learn if it is what is implied. We grow in faith, we approach ontological certainty, through a process wherein doubt is removed by testing.

"Because the bible says" amounts to nothing more than "because I infer".
"Because the bible says" can only be employed by those who have not out grown their first impression of what the bible says.

It is not so much that ideas are proved to us as it is that all of the other ideas that we have considered have been disproved. What remains is what we are LEFT TO BELIEVE. Then, that is tested, and so on, and so on. Even truth is only proof to the extent that it has been tested and proved.

 

[prov1810]

One can discern that God is good without the bible, and many do.

The bible proves nothing. Truth is implied; proof is inferred. The source of an inference is not a good measure of its accuracy.
There are, however, ideas about God that are only implied in the bible.

There is an indispensable distinction, even when there is no difference, between what is implied and what is inferred. What the bible implies is true, but what we infer must be tested to learn if it is what is implied. We grow in faith, we approach ontological certainty, through a process wherein doubt is removed by testing.

"Because the bible says" amounts to nothing more than "because I infer".
"Because the bible says" can only be employed by those who have not out grown their first impression of what the bible says.

It is not so much that ideas are proved to us as it is that all of the other ideas that we have considered have been disproved. What remains is what we are LEFT TO BELIEVE. Then, that is tested, and so on, and so on. Even truth is only proof to the extent that it has been tested and proved.

As I have shown, there have been theologies with an evil God. If anyone thinks that God is evil or that nothing exists but a cruelly indifferent universe, we have one certain rebuttal: the one that God has given in written form. We have nothing else to rely on or put our hope in.

we approach ontological certainty

You mean epistemic certainty.

 

[bricklayer]

As I have shown, there have been theologies with an evil God. If anyone thinks that God is evil or that nothing exists but a cruelly indifferent universe, we have one certain rebuttal: the one that God has given in written form. We have nothing else to rely on or put our hope in.


You mean epistemic certainty.

No, I wrote what I meant.

You seem to have lost sight of our context. I will refer to to my OP, wherein I go on at length about the importance of knowing both what God is and is not. You are preaching to the choir.

 

[bricklayer]

Epistemic certainty has been established and warning against attempts to change that culminate the book of Revelation.