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You talk so much that you end up shooting yourself in the foot!
So, since I cannot easily read the KJV and understand the words perfectly, having to as you said earlier, use a dictionary or modern translations, I guess that means the KJV isn't so perfect after all.
You deny what the verse plainly says. The Lord’s word are pure words… as silver tried in a furnace… purified seven times. What was purified seven times? The words of the Lord which are pure words.
You said…. “ All Bibles proclaim the same, Triune, God;”
But you offered no Scripture to back up this claim.
Or perhaps an aurochs. They have been extinct since 1627 - the animal is often referred to the literature of what is now Iraq, occupied much of the OT terrain, and was a particularly ferocious and formidable breed of wild bull. More info here: Aurochs - Wikipedia
What you are saying is not exactly clear to me. I believe the Trinity to be eternal (existing from eternity’s past), and uncreated. I hope that is what you are saying, too.
That's not actually the charge at all, it is that the usage of the term "Easter" is anachronistic since the festival that is being referred to is the Jewish passover not a celebration of the resurrection. The referent in the passage, through an examination of the context, is very clearly the Jewish festival both because it was Peter's captors who were concerned with celebrating it, and they would not have been celebrating the resurrection. So to use the word that refers to the celebration of the resurrection doesn't make sense of the context of the passage. Simply because there was some interchangeability between pascha and easter is, in fact, largely irrelevant to the question at hand and discussing it does little but obfuscate the core issues.
YES.Let’s see about that.
Is the KJV wrong for rendering "Pascha" as the English word "Easter" in Acts of the Apostles 12:4?
With all due respect...No. Although "Pascha" was originally a Hebrew word ("פּסח (pesach)"), Greek, being the language of a predominantly Christian nation, had appropriated the Jewish word and gave it the Christian meaning of "Easter". That is why in modern Greek, the primary meaning of "Πάσχα" is Easter and Passover is actually the secondary meaning when "Πάσχα" is qualified as the "εβραϊκό Πάσχα (Hebrew Pascha)" or the "Πάσχα των ιουδαίων (Pascha of the Jews)". Many other languages of Christendom are like modern Greek in making Easter the primary meaning of the transliteration of "Pascha":
See the entire article here:
“Easter” or “Passover” in Acts 12:4? - King James Version Today
Side Note:
You can Google the different words (English to French, etc.) here to check it for yourself. Oh, and the word “easter” is based on the word “east” (Which is the direction of the rising of the sun; For the dawn is associated with the discovery of Christ being risen in the Bible). Read the full article in the link provided above to learn more. They go into great depth on this topic.
What I know GOD is from Eternity to Eternity or from everlasting to everlasting time. He is the origin of all, but all. He has not beginning, nor ending, JESUS is the beginning and the ending.
JESUS is the beginning and the ending. As He said in the year around 95AD: Revelation 1:v.8- I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
GOD the Father-the Word-the Word is GOD, and JESUS, they both are the FIRST two Persons. The third person, the person of the Holy Spirit, comes after, I mean, GOD would send him after of JESUS, in flesh and bones, as He sent JESUS, of course.
What did JESUS say about the person of the Holy Spirit? John 16:v.7-15: Remember: The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy :
7 Nevertheless I tell you the Truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I WILL SEND him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of Judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the PRINCE of this world is Judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all Truth: for he shall not speak of himself; (he has no light of his own)
but whatsoever he shall hear (from the Greater Light), that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall TAAKE OF MINE, and shall shew it unto you.
JESUS prophesied about the birth of the person of Holy Spirit, as He promised and is written in John 16 above transcribed. Revelation 12:v.1-2and5 whose verses I comment below:
- FIRST, the Person of he Holy Spirit has not genealogy as JESUS has; why? Because he is not a Jew.
- As I above said-post #918, JESUS, or the NAME of JESUS, is known of men, and is also known of the angels, and He is known of the demons too. But the person of the Holy Spirit has a NAME written (in the Holy Scriptures, course) that no MAN knows, but he himself. I repit: He has not genealogy as JESUS has, he is not a Jew.
- JESUS came from heaven and He was born in Israel. John 6:38 - I came down from heaven(Behold the man!John 19:5)not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.
In the other hand, the prophetic birth of the person of Holy Spirit is not in Israel, but in a Gentile nation. His birth is within the body of Christ-the Church-and as JESUS said, he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, for he shall receive of mine, he shall take of mine. This exposed picture or figure is like the Sun and Moon. The Moon receives light from the Sun and reflets the light over the Earth; Regardings the light of JESUS reflected by the Holy Spirit over the Earth, I can see by analogy in Genesis 1:v.16:-And GOD made two great lights; the Greater Light to rule the day, and the Lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Revelation 12:1-2 & 5.
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman(the Church of the Lord JESUS) clothed with the Sun (JESUS and His Light, the Greater Light), and the moon (the Lesser light - the person of the Holy Spirit) under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: (The twelve Apostles of the Lord JESUS)
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 5-And she brought forth a man child - the person of the Holy Spirit- , who was to rule all nations (EXCEPT ISRAEL) with a rod of iron: and her child was CAUGHT UP unto GOD, and to His throne. By the way, about GOD's Throne-Psalm 97:v.1-2CJB say: 1 Adonai is king, let the earth rejoice, let the many coasts and islands be glad. 2 CLOUDS and thick darkness surround Him; Righteousness and Justice are the foundation of His throne. (By the way, as is written in 1 Thessalonians 4:v.17, "We which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP (AS HER SON-REV. 12:v.5) together with them in the CLOUDS-see Psalm 97:v.2, to meet the Lord in the AIR (AIR is heaven - here the third heaven): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.-(in the third heaven)
That said, what was asked by Mr. Porson and answered by Beza has sense, as I transcribe below:
>>> Again, Mr. Porson asks, “ Why is the epithet [holy,] ” after being twice omitted, added [to Spirit] in the seventh verse ? Beza
says,
“ In order to distinguish one Spirit from the other, ut ab eo distinguatur cujus fit mentio in sequenti versu." <<<
I highlight also the explanation below mainly where the commenter tries to understand and asks "why, in the original, the expression of unity in the two verses differs, one from the other, both doctrinally and grammatically?" Perhaps, too, because when the Three Divine Persons are connumerated in the same passage, as in Matth. xxviii. 19, 2 Cor. xiii. 14, the epithet was usually added. It may also be asked, why, in the original, the expression of unity in the two verses differs, one from the other, both doctrinally and grammatically? But his conclusion is much much more interesting and impressive when he says: The reason appears to be, because in one the unity is essential and real; in the other, adventitious and APPARENT ONLY (highlight mine); and because the eighth verse is dependent on the seventh, as a RELATIVE is on its antecedent.
the spirit, and the water, and the blood - small "s" - earthly witnesses.
Well, ACTUALLY, Satan wanted & still wants to replace God as Supreme Being. He wants POWER, not money. remember, he said, "I will be like the Most High."In regards to 1 Timothy 6:10:
Well, in Ezekiel 28:2 we see a reference to "the PRINCE of Tyrus", whom many have seen as a type of the Antichrist, and in 28: 12 we see a reference to "the KING of Tyrus", the power behind the prince, whom they see as a description of Satan himself and his fall. The description of "the KING of Tyrus" is from verse 12 to 17. Here we read:
Ezekiel 28:12-18 King James Bible
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the KING of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD; EVERY PRECIOUS STONE WAS THY COVERING, THE SARDIUS, TOPAZ, AND THE DIAMOND, THE BERYL, THE ONYX, AND THE JASPER, THE SAPPHIRE, THE EMERALD, AND THE CARBUNCLE, AND GOLD: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 THOU ART THE ANOINTED CHERUB that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 BY THE MULTITUDE OF THY MERCHANDISE they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 THINE HEART WAS LIFTED UP BECAUSE OF THY BEAUTY, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, BY THE INIQUITY OF THY TRAFFICK; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."
Keep in mind that the cause of the fall of Lucifer (Satan) was pride. His heart was lifted up because of his beauty, which was composed of numerous precious stones, diamonds and gold. "lest being LIFTED UP WITH PRIDE he fall into the condemnation of the devil." 1 Timothy 3:6
Some think that when God told Moses to make the ark of the covenant for the Holy of holies, the reason there were to be TWO CHERUBS facing each other, was so that "the covering cherubs" would see that there was another one just like them, and so they were not unique or the most beautiful of all the creatures God had made.
This was to be a spiritual lesson to reveal the reason behind the fall of Satan, or Lucifer. He was lifted up because of his beauty, which was all these precious stones and gold. It was the love of wealth that made up his own physical beauty that made him want more, and to ultimately be the wealthiest of them all, God Himself.
Likewise we see the same characteristics in the "Antichrist" or "the PRINCE of Tyrus." He is described in Ezekiel 28:2-8
Ezekiel 28:2-8 King James Bible
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding THOU HAST GOTTEN THEE RICHES, AND HAST GOTTEN GOLD AND SILVER INTO THY TREASURES:
5 By thy great wisdom and BY THY TRAFFICK HAST THOU INCREASED THY RICHES, AND THINE HEART IS LIFTED UP BECAUSE OF THY RICHES:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
In other words, it actually WAS "the love of money" or wealth, that was the root of all evil that has happened since the fall of Lucifer.
Source used:
Another King James Bible Believer
Read post#735.
The 3 specific Scripture I gave there were in the OT where God says, "let US create" and "who will go for US?", Genesis 1:21; Isaiah 6:8.
I also said that there are verses which show that the Spirt and the Son were with God at creation, and are therefore eternal, (Genesis 1:2, John 1:1,) and that there is only ONE God, (Isaiah 43:10-11.)
Apart from this, Jesus used the name of God - I AM - and the Jews tried to stone him for blasphemy as they knew he was claiming to be God.
You said:There does not need to be ONE verse that teaches the trinity; it's found in many places in Scripture. Again, I fully believe in the Trinity and I do not read the KJV.
I didn't create the prob; pacifists & anti-capital-punishment wackos did. They use that KJV rendering of Ex. 20:13 as an excuse to oppose ANY killing of another person, or in some cases, animals.Source:
Definition of kill | Dictionary.com
Notice the last definition in the screen capture above for the word “kill.”
It says, “to commit murder.”
So there is no problem (unless you want there to be one).
1. Why would God's words need to be purified at all? He is pure, holy and perfect. Are you saying that 6 times God spoke impure words?
2. The Lord's words are AS, or like, silver that has been purified 7 times - the silver had been purified so often that it was perfect. In the Bible, 7 is a number of completion and perfection. The Psalmist is saying that the Lord's words are perfect.
He certainly does not say that a man made translation of the Bible needs to be purified 7 times and then IT will be perfect; that's called reading into the text.
You do realize that some words do not translate from one language to another, right? Also, are you looking at the right Greek manuscripts? My guess is you are looking at the Critical Text.
Do YOU have a perfect Bible? If so, pleast tell us its name. (It's not the KJV, as we've proven here that it's NOT perfect.)So the answer is… no. There is no perfect Bible that you can hold in your hands today.
Therein lies the difference between us.
You have a bunch of fallible imperfect bibles that you have to sift through to figure out what is true or not true within them. That’s a full time job. I think God would want us to be busy at doing what He says vs. trying to endlessly figure out what He actually said because we don’t have a perfect Bible (according to your worldview).
YES.
With all due respect...
Acts 12:4 was written by LUKE in the 1st century. At that time, EASTER DID NOT EXIST, and if it had existed then, neither Herod nor the Jewish religious leadership he was trying to please would've left off dealing with Peter to have observed it. They wouldn't've observed it at all!
And V.3 makes it plain that PASSOVER was then ongoing. And Ezekiel 45:21 makes it plain that passover is SEVEN DAYS LONG, & not just the paschal lamb meal day.
Thus, Easter is WRONG in v4!
I'll be the first to acknowledge that pascha means both Easter & passover in MODERN Greek, but again, what matters here is what pascha meant to LUKE. The translation is supposed to reflect LUKE'S written thoughts, not those of the translators, who did observe Easter.
(Cont. next post)
MMRRPP ! WRONG !You deny what the verse plainly says. The Lord’s word are pure words… as silver tried in a furnace… purified seven times. What was purified seven times? The words of the Lord which are pure words. You don’t believe there is a pure Bible and thus the book of God you have is almost pure. You don’t believe it’s pure. But the Bible says that the words of the Lord are pure words… purified seven times.
Nupe! men can't prove them corrupt, any more than he can now state with certainty what's in the core of Jupiter.Your reasoning is silly, then.
Again, oranges and apples.
Do YOU have a perfect Bible? If so, pleast tell us its name. (It's not the KJV, as we've proven here that it's NOT perfect.)
MMRRPP ! WRONG !
Even your KJV says "AS silver..."! As I explained, silver purified 7 times was the standard for silver used to make the Tabernacle/temple instruments. This was the purest physical thing known to David & he was comparing God's words to it.
How was that silver purified? It was "tried", that is, melted down. When it was thoroughly molten & all the combustible or evaporative impurities such as dirt or tin were destroyed, the non-combustible materials rose to the top, as silver is a pretty heavy metal. These formed a slag which was skimmed off using a wooden instrument, to which molten silver won't cling. After a little while, the surface was skimmed again. When this was repeated 7 times, the silver was over 99% pure, even by modern standards. Far as the Israelis were concerned, it was 100% pure, and that was what David was comparing God's words with.
Now, GODS WORDS WERE NOT REFINED ! ! ! They were pure the instant He spoke them! What is IMpure are man's translations of them, as all men are imperfect.
And again...Psalm 12 does NOT mention ANY Bible version or translation whatsoever!
Yes, God's words are pure; man's translations are not.
Your provision of dictionaries and an encyclopedia don't speak to what I have been arguing, since it is about which the context tells us is being celebrated not the appropriateness of "pascha" being translated as easter in general. The context is clearly referring to Jews celebrating a Jewish festival, not the resurrection.I provided dictionaries and an Encyclopedia to prove you are wrong. This also lines up with Scripture, as well. You are simply seeing what you want to see at this point.
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