The KJVO myth...

[Bible Highlighter]

No need to generalize something I said specifically to your concrete way of presenting your evidence.


I think you are overthinking it too much. Every real Christian is lead by the Spirit of God and does not need to have 1000 pages of some "perfect" text to tell him how to live.

I think you know that you should love your neighbour, take care of your family, do not lie etc even if you are not sure what sentence Jeremiah used for some prophecy.

Do not make the mistake of making the form/way to be the goal.

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” (Proverbs 14:12).

“Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Psalms 119:11).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No need to generalize something I said specifically to your concrete way of presenting your evidence.


I think you are overthinking it too much. Every real Christian is lead by the Spirit of God and does not need to have 1000 pages of some "perfect" text to tell him how to live.

I think you know that you should love your neighbour, to take care of your family, not to lie etc even if you are not sure what sentence Jeremiah used for some old prophecy.

Do not make the mistake of making the form/way to be the goal.

The problem I have with your belief is…. What do you have to offer that is superior?
Looking at dead languages? How can I possibly know I got it right? The apostle Paul is not around to confirm if my interpretation on the Greek is correct. Moses is not around to correct me on my Biblical Hebrew. So where does that leave me? Sifting through a sea of Modern Translations that all say something differently? No thanks. God is not the author of confusion. There can be only one Word of God and He speaks in a way with words that I can logically understand Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No need to generalize something I said specifically to your concrete way of presenting your evidence.


I think you are overthinking it too much. Every real Christian is lead by the Spirit of God and does not need to have 1000 pages of some "perfect" text to tell him how to live.

I think you know that you should love your neighbour, to take care of your family, not to lie etc even if you are not sure what sentence Jeremiah used for some old prophecy.

Do not make the mistake of making the form/way to be the goal.

Yes, they do need to have the Bible to tell them how to live because that is what 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says. All Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works. Not some good works. ALL good works. What again is the source? Scripture and not your own way of thinking.

Scripture is inspired by the Spirit.
So that is your guide whereby you will not be led astray.

 

[trophy33]

Not sure if you are aware of this fact or not, but those who hold to the Critical Text (i.e. where all Modern Translations are based on) say that their manuscript evidence originates from Alexandria, Egypt.

I am aware that this myth is spread in the KJVO circles, but its not something the textual scientists exactly say in such an oversimplified manner. Some significant manuscripts were found in Alexandria, some were found elsewhere.

Nestlé Aland (what all modern translations are based on) is based on manuscripts from all over the world.

Institut für neutestamentliche Textforschung (Institute that creates NA editions) is even currently working on the most inclusive edition ever, based on all known manuscripts of both the Bible and citations of early Christians that have ever been discovered - its called Editio Critica Maior.

Editio Critica Maior - Wikipedia

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am aware that this myth is spread in the KJVO circles, but its not something the textual scientists exactly say in such an oversimplified manner. Some significant manuscripts were found in Alexandria, some were found elsewhere.

Nestlé Aland (what all modern translations are based on) is based on manuscripts from all over the world.

Institut für neutestamentliche Textforschung (Institute that creates NA editions) is even currently working on the most inclusive edition ever, based on all known manuscripts of both the Bible and citations of early Christians that were ever discovered - its called Editio Critica Maior.

So your position is against the KJV being the Word of God from the start. If so… I do not see anything to gain by this discussion. You appear to not want to see the truth on this no matter what evidence is presented. To me… there has to be a point where there are just too many coincidences one has to ignore. That is what you are doing. Ignoring the tons of coincidences that point in favor of the KJB being the pure Word of God.

 

[trophy33]

The problem I have with your belief is…. What do you have to offer that is superior?
Looking at dead languages? How can I possibly know I got it right? The apostle Paul is not around to confirm if my interpretation on the Greek is correct. Moses is not around to correct me on my Biblical Hebrew. So where does that leave me? Sifting through a sea of Modern Translations that all say something differently? No thanks. God is not the author of confusion. There can be only one Word of God and He speaks in a way with words that I can logically understand Him.

Again, God does not want you to lie in a book all day and have a "superior" readings of old prophets that prophecised about events in Israel that are in no connection to you personally.

He wants you to help your neighbour, to take care of your family, to live in truth, to be just and merciful...

As somebody here in this thread said - the Christianity 101.

 

[trophy33]

So your position is against the KJV being the Word of God from the start. If so… I do not see anything to gain by this discussion. You appear to not want to see the truth on this no matter what evidence is presented. To me… there has to be a point where there are just too many coincidences one has to ignore. That is what you are doing. Ignoring the tons of coincidences that point in favor of the KJB being the pure Word of God.

If you take a correction of your misinformation as something that ends the discussion, I am for it, too.

 

[trophy33]

Take your time to examine the evidence on your own time. But will do so? My guess is that you will not because you don’t want it to be true.

I do not see much to examine. You simply prefer the medieval translation because you think its better. Your arguments are mostly emotional, so there is not much to argue with.

You say that modern translations are "watered down", but your arguments are just from comparing the two. Which is not the right way to identify which text is more authentic.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I do not see much to examine. You simply prefer the medieval translation because you think its better. Your arguments are mostly emotional, so there is not much to argue with.

You say that modern translations are "watered down", but your arguments are just from comparing the two. Which is not the right way to identify which text is more authentic.

Then we are done talking. No evidence will convince you. It’s time to move on.

May God bless you.

 

[trophy33]

Then we are done talking. No evidence will convince you. It’s time to move on.

May God bless you.

The same can be said about you. You are not here to be "convinced", from the start.

Blessings to you too.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The same can be said about you. You are not here to be "convinced", from the start.

Blessings to you too.

Yes, I came here to provide my case with evidence in Scripture. Those who have eyes to see will see (Even if it is a person just doing a Google search on the topic).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

People who truly want to follow the Lord’s will follow what the Bible actually says.
I don’t see any evidence in the Bible for the Modern Translation way of thinking or the Original Languages way of thinking. I do see evidence in God’s Word in how He continued to preserve His Word.

 

[trophy33]

Yes, I came here to provide my case with evidence in Scripture. Those who have eyes to see will see (Even if it is a person just doing a Google search on the topic).

Ok, but you must allow them to actually study the topic of textual criticism. For example to actually know how the Nestlé Aland is made and how the KJV was made, not just some oversimplified myths about it.

Or else it seems your arguments work only on people who do not have more broad knowledge and concentrate just and only on comparing two bibles, without knowing little more about their background.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In the Bible: We can see a pattern of God preserving copies of His Word, and not the original autographs.

(a) Moses destroyed the original 10 Commandments on tablets of stone (the original autograph) (Exodus 32:19), and yet a copy was perfectly made to replace it (Exodus 34:1-4).​

(b) King Jehoiakim burns the scroll of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 36:22-23), but God had Jeremiah make another copy (Jeremiah 36:27-28).​

(c) Proverbs 25:1 says, “These are also proverbs of Solomon, which the men of Hezekiah king of Judah copied out.” (Proverbs 25:1).​

In the New Testament, Philip heard the Ethiopian eunuch read from a manuscript of Isaiah.

“And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?” (Acts of the Apostles 8:30).​

Although Scripture does not specifically say this was a copy of Isaiah, and not the original autograph of Isaiah, logic dictates that the most plausible explanation is that the Ethiopian eunuch had a copy of a manuscript of Isaiah (and not the original). For the odds of him just happening to have the original would seem highly unlikely.

Philip calls this copy of Isaiah he possessed as Scripture.

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.” (Acts of the Apostles 8:35).​

2 Timothy 3:16 says all Scripture is given by inspiration of God.
So the copy of this Scripture was inspired by God.

So the belief of “OAO (Original Autograph Only) Proponent” that says that we need to look to the original autograph because it is perfect, and the copies are flawed and full of errors is unbiblical. Believers in God's Word can trust that God has preserved a copy of His Word for us today that is perfect (Which would be consistent in the way God operates involving the preservation of His Word). This then leads us to conclude that there must be a perfect Bible that we can find today.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ok, but you must allow them to actually study the topic of textual criticism. For example to actually know how the Nestlé Aland is made and how the KJV was made, not just some myths about it.

Or else it seems your arguments work only on people who do not have more broad knowledge and concentrate just and only on comparing two bibles, without knowing little more about their background.

I am aware of Nestle’ and Aland.
They used Westcott and Hort’s Greek NT text as the basis of their NT Greek text.
Could I be wrong on that? Sure.
For the truth is…. History is written by the victors. I am sure there are tons of religions who can claim their religion to be the true one by their pointing to history. It does not make them right or correct. So the only thing we can trust is the Holy Bible (or God’s Word) because we can actually prove that is divine in many ways in the here and now.

 

[pescador]

The original writers were moved by the Holy Ghost to write what God wanted written. Why is it that the Holy Ghost can't move in the translators so that they write exactly what God wants them to write?

If that was the case there would be only one translation. There are, in fact, many. Personally, I believe that all serious translators are moved by the Holy Spirit.

BTW, you do realize that there are no originals, but only copies, many of them fragmented. Do you think that is what God intended?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If that was the case there would be only one translation. There are, in fact, many. Personally, I believe that all serious translators are moved by the Holy Spirit.

BTW, you do realize that there are no originals, but only copies, many of them fragmented. Do you think that is what God intended?

Different translations say different things.
However, we know…. God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What is sinister is somebody can just re-write this truth in Scripture because they think the original languages says something else.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So… if a person does not like a particular verse in Scripture… they can just throw down the original languages card and many will be none the wiser.

 

[Bob_1000]

If that was the case there would be only one translation. There are, in fact, many. Personally, I believe that all serious translators are moved by the Holy Spirit.

BTW, you do realize that there are no originals, but only copies, many of them fragmented. Do you think that is what God intended?

The Gnostics were writing false gospels pretty much in parallel with the New Testament. Some people had enough sense to recognize them for what they were and some were deceived by it. Any body or group of people can publish a bible as long as it’s significantly different from other bibles so that they’re not infringing on copyrights.

Yes I know the originals are long gone and yes I believe God intended it that way and it’s actually predicted here.

Isa 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

Isa 40:7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.