The Kingdom of God is in the Midst of You

[Residential Bob]

I’ve seen Preterists rejoice that the kingdom is within them individually. A friend of mine showed me his Kingdom Bible, in which Luke 17:21 suggests the same thing.

I beg to differ. Translation should be taken more seriously.

A word-for-word translation renders Luke 17:21 thus: “nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” (ESV)

The New Greek-English Interlinear New Testament, published by Tyndale House, renders the Greek word order thus: "Nor will they say, behold here (it is), or there (it is), for~behold the kingdom – of God inside of you is." In English, this same publication renders the verse thus: “nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among you.” (NRSV)

Notice, even though the Greek literally says inside of you, the translator renders it among you in the New Revised Standard Version. And this rendering, of course, is similar to the in the midst of you in the English Standard Version.

The ESV and the NRSV are literal translations (derived word-for-word (or phrase-for-phrase) from the original Hebrew and Greek). So why the discrepancy?

The truth is it’s not a discrepancy. Literal translations do not ignore context. Jesus is speaking to a group of people. He is not saying to Billy, “the kingdom is inside of you” or to Susan, “the kingdom is inside of you.” He’s telling the crowd, “the kingdom is inside of you.” The kingdom is inside the crowd, in the midst of the individuals (or among them).

This, among other passages, describes the church. And it’s why my Bible is an ESV.

Just thought I'd share.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No. Most crowds, most groups have no experiential knowledge of the Kingdom of Heaven, nor of Yahweh's Rule.

Inside a person, together with all who obey, a person with all their being, heart, soul mind and body obeys Yahweh,
or follows another one.
Those who follow another one are not in Yahweh's Kingdom.
Those who trust Jesus, Living His Way, are in Yahweh's Kingdom.

Yahweh's Kingdom is where He Rules as Master, Sovereign, Savior,
over all - every thought, every desire, every want, everything is willingly and joyously brought subject to the Master Jesus.

 

[Dave-W]

I heard Derek Prince explain that verse. He was teaching Greek philosophy at the graduate level at Cambridge before he became a believer, so he knew Greek VERY WELL. He also rejected the individualistic understanding.

Well said R Bob.

 

[Residential Bob]

I heard Derek Prince explain that verse. He was teaching Greek philosophy at the graduate level at Cambridge before he became a believer, so he knew Greek VERY WELL. He also rejected the individualistic understanding.

Well said R Bob.

Thank you. It's in plain language, whether Greek or English.

It's also consistent with the description of the kingdom's arrival, that no one saw it coming. And also of the kingdom itself, that within it resides no unifying central figure we can call teacher or father.

 

[Howard Beale]

I’ve seen Preterists rejoice that the kingdom is within them individually. A friend of mine showed me his Kingdom Bible, in which Luke 17:21 suggests the same thing.

I beg to differ. Translation should be taken more seriously.

A word-for-word translation renders Luke 17:21 thus: “nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” (ESV)

The New Greek-English Interlinear New Testament, published by Tyndale House, renders the Greek word order thus: "Nor will they say, behold here (it is), or there (it is), for~behold the kingdom – of God inside of you is." In English, this same publication renders the verse thus: “nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among you.” (NRSV)

Notice, even though the Greek literally says inside of you, the translator renders it among you in the New Revised Standard Version. And this rendering, of course, is similar to the in the midst of you in the English Standard Version.

The ESV and the NRSV are literal translations (derived word-for-word (or phrase-for-phrase) from the original Hebrew and Greek). So why the discrepancy?

The truth is it’s not a discrepancy. Literal translations do not ignore context. Jesus is speaking to a group of people. He is not saying to Billy, “the kingdom is inside of you” or to Susan, “the kingdom is inside of you.” He’s telling the crowd, “the kingdom is inside of you.” The kingdom is inside the crowd, in the midst of the individuals (or among them).

This, among other passages, describes the church. And it’s why my Bible is an ESV.

Just thought I'd share.

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and have been reading various threads and came across this one regarding the Greek proposition entos.

In Luke 17:21 Jesus is responding to the query of the Pharisees with regard to the Kingdom. Despite all the protestations of various Christian denominations, the grammar of this verse makes its meaning very clear. Jesus answers the Pharisees by telling them that the Kingdom of God is within them. Some have altered the words of Jesus to fit their personal or denominational agendas. You will see some bible translations rendering the phrase “within you” as “in your midst” or “among you”. This seemingly purposeful mistranslation of the words of Jesus is very, very troubling. Jesus specifically uses the Greek phrase entos humon. That Greek phrase clearly means “within (or inside) you”. The Greek term entos as used prior to and during the time of Jesus means “inside: or “within” and there is no instance of it being used with another meaning. Jesus uses this term entos only one other time and that is in Matthew 23:26 where there is no doubt about the meaning of the term because in Matthew Jesus uses a metaphor regarding the inside (entos) as opposed to the outside (ektos) of a cup. In addition, the “you” of the phrase is clearly plural. The words are in response to a question from Pharisees. Jesus clearly tells the Pharisees that "The Kingdom of God is within you”. The "you" refers to the ones who asked the question. The teaching is clear, profound and stunning; and it is present tense.

Howard

 

[Residential Bob]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and have been reading various threads and came across this one regarding the Greek proposition entos.

In Luke 17:21 Jesus is responding to the query of the Pharisees with regard to the Kingdom. Despite all the protestations of various Christian denominations, the grammar of this verse makes its meaning very clear. Jesus answers the Pharisees by telling them that the Kingdom of God is within them. Some have altered the words of Jesus to fit their personal or denominational agendas. You will see some bible translations rendering the phrase “within you” as “in your midst” or “among you”. This seemingly purposeful mistranslation of the words of Jesus is very, very troubling. Jesus specifically uses the Greek phrase entos humon. That Greek phrase clearly means “within (or inside) you”. The Greek term entos as used prior to and during the time of Jesus means “inside: or “within” and there is no instance of it being used with another meaning. Jesus uses this term entos only one other time and that is in Matthew 23:26 where there is no doubt about the meaning of the term because in Matthew Jesus uses a metaphor regarding the inside (entos) as opposed to the outside (ektos) of a cup. In addition, the “you” of the phrase is clearly plural. The words are in response to a question from Pharisees. Jesus clearly tells the Pharisees that "The Kingdom of God is within you”. The "you" refers to the ones who asked the question. The teaching is clear, profound and stunning; and it is present tense.

Howard

Context suggests the meaning of entos (ἐντός) in both Luke and Matthew. In the crowd are individuals - plural; the cup is singular.


ἐντός can mean within, as in the midst of you or inside, as in your soul. (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1787&t=ESV)

 

[Howard Beale]

The following also addresses the website you offered above.

The Strong’s citation of Xenophon is sadly in error. The first phrase Strong’s cites (ἐντός αὐτῶν) is from The Anabasis of Xenophon. Strong’s suggest we “see the passage” rather defend the translation. Well, the passage refers to an army being “inside or within” enemy lines. See The Anabasis of Xenophon with Explanatory notes by F. Cunningham Belfor as he explains this, or see any number of Greek scholars who have translated The Anabasis.
THE ORIGINAL GREEK
ἡ δὲ Μιλησία ἡ νεωτέρα ληφθεῖσα ὑπὸ τῶν ἀμφὶ βασιλέα ἐκφεύγει γυμνὴ πρὸς τῶν Ἑλλήνων οἳ ἔτυχον ἐν τοῖς σκευοφόροις ὅπλα ἔχοντες καὶ ἀντιταχθέντες πολλοὺς μὲν τῶν ἁρπαζόντων ἀπέκτειναν, οἱ δὲ καὶ αὐτῶν ἀπέθανον· οὐ μὴν ἔφυγόν γε, ἀλλὰ καὶ ταύτην ἔσωσαν καὶ τἆλλα, ὁπόσα ἐντὸς αὐτῶν καὶ χρήματα καὶ ἄνθρωποι ἐγένοντο, πάντα ἔσωσαν. [Xen. The Anabasis 1.10.3]
TRANSLATION
The Milesian woman, however, the younger one, after being seized by the King's men made her escape, lightly clad, to some Greeks who had chanced to be standing guard amid the baggage train and, forming themselves in line against the enemy, had killed many of the plunderers, although some of their own number had been killed also; nevertheless, they did not take to flight, but they saved this woman and, furthermore, whatever else came within their lines, whether persons or property, they saved all alike. Translation by Carleton L. Brownson

One cannot be “among” or “in the midst of” a line. One has either crossed it or has not.

With regard to the second phrase cited (ἐντός τούτων), it is from Xenophon’s Hellenica. Once again, Strong’s has made an egregious error.
THE ORIGINAL GREEK
ὁ δ᾽ αὖ Θηραμένης καὶ πρὸς ταῦτα ἔλεγεν ὅτι ἄτοπον δοκοίη ἑαυτῷ γε εἶναι τὸ πρῶτον μὲν βουλομένους τοὺς βελτίστους τῶν πολιτῶν κοινωνοὺς ποιήσασθαι τρισχιλίους, ὥσπερ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦτον ἔχοντά τινα ἀνάγκην καλοὺς καὶ ἀγαθοὺς εἶναι, καὶ οὔτ᾽ ἔξω τούτων σπουδαίους οὔτ᾽ ἐντὸς τούτων πονηροὺς οἷόν τε εἴη γενέσθαι: ἔπειτα δ᾽, ἔφη, ὁρῶ ἔγωγε δύο ἡμᾶς τὰ ἐναντιώτατα πράττοντας, βιαίαν τε τὴν ἀρχὴν καὶ ἥττονα τῶν ἀρχομένων κατασκευαζομένους. [Hell. 2.3.10]
TRANSLATION:
Theramenes, however, objected to this move also, saying that, in the first place, it seemed to him absurd that, when they wanted to make the best of the citizens their associates, they should limit themselves to three thousand, as though this number must somehow be good men and true and there could neither be excellent men outside this body nor rascals within1 it. “Besides,” he said, “we are undertaking, in my opinion, two absolutely inconsistent things,—to rig up our government on the basis of force and at the same time to make it weaker than its subjects.” Translation by Carleton L. Brownson

The meaning of “entos” here is clear. The opposite of “outside” this body is obviously “inside” or “within”.

An important point is that when the Rabbis translated the Torah into Greek, the Hebrew term tavek in Genesis 3:3. tavek means “in the midst of” but was not rendered as “entos” by the rabbis and is the Greek term used by Jesus in Luke. The rabbis render the Hebrew tavek (in the midst) as “en” - Strong’s G1722. Look into Strong’s G1722 and you will see how often “en” is used meaning among and look into “entos” which is only used 2x in the entire NT and the only other time clearly means “inside”.

Another are the Psalms cited in Strong’s. Look into them for yourself… look at the LXX and the Hebrew. It makes things stunningly clear.

Finally, rather than quibble let me request that you cite a single verse from Greek prior to and/or during the time of Jesus that uses the term “entos” meaning “among” or “in the midst”

Please forgive me if I seem adamant. The words and teachings of Jesus are again being talked about as mutable depending on the social times or denominational needs. The Pope tried to see if changing the clear meaning of words would be OK… it failed this time but has succeeded in earlier times and may again.

Howard

 

[Residential Bob]

The following also addresses the website you offered above.

The Strong’s citation of Xenophon is sadly in error. The first phrase Strong’s cites (ἐντός αὐτῶν) is from The Anabasis of Xenophon. Strong’s suggest we “see the passage” rather defend the translation. Well, the passage refers to an army being “inside or within” enemy lines. See The Anabasis of Xenophon with Explanatory notes by F. Cunningham Belfor as he explains this, or see any number of Greek scholars who have translated The Anabasis.
THE ORIGINAL GREEK
ἡ δὲ Μιλησία ἡ νεωτέρα ληφθεῖσα ὑπὸ τῶν ἀμφὶ βασιλέα ἐκφεύγει γυμνὴ πρὸς τῶν Ἑλλήνων οἳ ἔτυχον ἐν τοῖς σκευοφόροις ὅπλα ἔχοντες καὶ ἀντιταχθέντες πολλοὺς μὲν τῶν ἁρπαζόντων ἀπέκτειναν, οἱ δὲ καὶ αὐτῶν ἀπέθανον· οὐ μὴν ἔφυγόν γε, ἀλλὰ καὶ ταύτην ἔσωσαν καὶ τἆλλα, ὁπόσα ἐντὸς αὐτῶν καὶ χρήματα καὶ ἄνθρωποι ἐγένοντο, πάντα ἔσωσαν. [Xen. The Anabasis 1.10.3]
TRANSLATION
The Milesian woman, however, the younger one, after being seized by the King's men made her escape, lightly clad, to some Greeks who had chanced to be standing guard amid the baggage train and, forming themselves in line against the enemy, had killed many of the plunderers, although some of their own number had been killed also; nevertheless, they did not take to flight, but they saved this woman and, furthermore, whatever else came within their lines, whether persons or property, they saved all alike. Translation by Carleton L. Brownson

One cannot be “among” or “in the midst of” a line. One has either crossed it or has not.

With regard to the second phrase cited (ἐντός τούτων), it is from Xenophon’s Hellenica. Once again, Strong’s has made an egregious error.
THE ORIGINAL GREEK
ὁ δ᾽ αὖ Θηραμένης καὶ πρὸς ταῦτα ἔλεγεν ὅτι ἄτοπον δοκοίη ἑαυτῷ γε εἶναι τὸ πρῶτον μὲν βουλομένους τοὺς βελτίστους τῶν πολιτῶν κοινωνοὺς ποιήσασθαι τρισχιλίους, ὥσπερ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦτον ἔχοντά τινα ἀνάγκην καλοὺς καὶ ἀγαθοὺς εἶναι, καὶ οὔτ᾽ ἔξω τούτων σπουδαίους οὔτ᾽ ἐντὸς τούτων πονηροὺς οἷόν τε εἴη γενέσθαι: ἔπειτα δ᾽, ἔφη, ὁρῶ ἔγωγε δύο ἡμᾶς τὰ ἐναντιώτατα πράττοντας, βιαίαν τε τὴν ἀρχὴν καὶ ἥττονα τῶν ἀρχομένων κατασκευαζομένους. [Hell. 2.3.10]
TRANSLATION:
Theramenes, however, objected to this move also, saying that, in the first place, it seemed to him absurd that, when they wanted to make the best of the citizens their associates, they should limit themselves to three thousand, as though this number must somehow be good men and true and there could neither be excellent men outside this body nor rascals within1 it. “Besides,” he said, “we are undertaking, in my opinion, two absolutely inconsistent things,—to rig up our government on the basis of force and at the same time to make it weaker than its subjects.” Translation by Carleton L. Brownson

The meaning of “entos” here is clear. The opposite of “outside” this body is obviously “inside” or “within”.

An important point is that when the Rabbis translated the Torah into Greek, the Hebrew term tavek in Genesis 3:3. tavek means “in the midst of” but was not rendered as “entos” by the rabbis and is the Greek term used by Jesus in Luke. The rabbis render the Hebrew tavek (in the midst) as “en” - Strong’s G1722. Look into Strong’s G1722 and you will see how often “en” is used meaning among and look into “entos” which is only used 2x in the entire NT and the only other time clearly means “inside”.

Another are the Psalms cited in Strong’s. Look into them for yourself… look at the LXX and the Hebrew. It makes things stunningly clear.

Finally, rather than quibble let me request that you cite a single verse from Greek prior to and/or during the time of Jesus that uses the term “entos” meaning “among” or “in the midst”

Please forgive me if I seem adamant. The words and teachings of Jesus are again being talked about as mutable depending on the social times or denominational needs. The Pope tried to see if changing the clear meaning of words would be OK… it failed this time but has succeeded in earlier times and may again.

Howard

I'll believes Strong's.

And again, body is singular. Individuals in a crowd are not.

 

[Howard Beale]

We all have the right to believe whatever we each choose to. We do not however have the right to distort the words and teachings of Jesus.

Your analysis of the verse is not accurate. Hopefully this can clarify:

Luke 17:20 “And when he was demanded of the Pharisees(1), when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them(2) and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:”
(1) Pharisees is a plural – Pharisee is the singular of Pharisees
(2) them is a plural.

Luke 17:21 “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you(3)”
(3) Jesus answers them and syntactically “you” is for each person.

The Greek reads: βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ἐντὸς ὑμῶν(4) ἐστιν
(4) ὑμῶν is the plural contextual form in Greek.

I hope you will to at least look into it.

With love,
Howard

 

[Residential Bob]

Actually, we have a right to distort whatever words we want. And we have a right to our opinions despite the facts.

I'll believe the authorities.

 

[Howard Beale]

You are perfectly correct. No one has the right to judge another. And no one knows the path we each must travel.
Jesus teaches us:
And now I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)
With love,
Howard