The Islamic Civilization

[UIN]

yes, your eyes didn't cheat on you.

the title says:

THE ISLAMIC CIVILIZATION

many people are now wondering, really is the islamic society civilized.

actually, let's look at the facts,

what's your favorite political way for ruling a country?

you may say the democrat way,

but what does it help us to be, greedy, selfish, and classified as poor and rich people.

well, this system has many troubles, it gives the power for the people who have money, while the poor isn't mentioned, it can make clashes between the people according to the races for the free opinions, it can get the community into its end with all the moral forgoten values.

you may say the communism, but it also has its ugly sides:

all the people will get the same amount of money while they do different jobs, how can that be?

the bad ruling people will gain authority to do anything they want.

you can say Islam,

if you said so, you said the right answer, look for example, Islam states there are poor and rich people, but ordres the rich to pay 2.5% of their propereties and money every year to the poor, it states that the ruler must be a pious and elected by a group of pious people or even from the nation, it's built on loving God and being afraid of him, NOT on the self advantages.

let's look back in the history, when it was done in the right way,

when Oar Ibn Al-khattab was dying, he ordered to elect a caliph after him, the ware two candidates, Othman and Ali, the asked the people even the hildren to decide which one, in the end the put Othman Ibn Affan.

then, do you know how was the situation when Omar Ibn Abd-Alaziz was ruling, the poor people didn't accept 100 gold coin, it was nothing.

see, if we put the islamic system, we will gain the best things we want.

note: these things are briefe for what we can gain from the Islamic religion.

 

[Montalban]

yes, your eyes didn't cheat on you.

the title says:

THE ISLAMIC CIVILIZATION

many people are now wondering, really is the islamic society civilized.

actually, let's look at the facts,

what's your favorite political way for ruling a country?

you may say the democrat way,

but what does it help us to be, greedy, selfish, and classified as poor and rich people.

You mean the 'democratic way'. Democracy is no synonymous with capitalism

well, this system has many troubles, it gives the power for the people who have money, while the poor isn't mentioned, it can make clashes between the people according to the races for the free opinions, it can get the community into its end with all the moral forgoten values.

As noted, you're confusing a capitalist democracy with a socialist one.

you may say the communism, but it also has its ugly sides:

all the people will get the same amount of money while they do different jobs, how can that be?

the bad ruling people will gain authority to do anything they want.

you can say Islam,

if you said so, you said the right answer, look for example, Islam states there are poor and rich people, but ordres the rich to pay 2.5% of their propereties and money every year to the poor, it states that the ruler must be a pious and elected by a group of pious people or even from the nation, it's built on loving God and being afraid of him, NOT on the self advantages.

Well in a capitalist society you could argue that the rich are made to pay; tax. This is then distributed by the government.

let's look back in the history, when it was done in the right way,

when Oar Ibn Al-khattab was dying, he ordered to elect a caliph after him, the ware two candidates, Othman and Ali, the asked the people even the hildren to decide which one, in the end the put Othman Ibn Affan.

then, do you know how was the situation when Omar Ibn Abd-Alaziz was ruling, the poor people didn't accept 100 gold coin, it was nothing.

see, if we put the islamic system, we will gain the best things we want.

note: these things are briefe for what we can gain from the Islamic religion.

What? Confusion over democracy?

 

[UIN]

well, I think you can get us some examples for the victories of the democatic system, over the islamic one.

not like scientific one, but closer to a coomunity victory.

 

[anatolian]

The Islamic state is better than the wild captalism.

 

[Montalban]

The Islamic state is better than the wild captalism.

Prove this, showing what measure you used and the means you used to test this.

 

[Montalban]

well, I think you can get us some examples for the victories of the democatic system, over the islamic one.

not like scientific one, but closer to a coomunity victory.

Victories, in what sense?

 

[UIN]

well, I think there are many things differ in my concepts to yours, I meant the good things that made the people of the community feel better.

 

[Secundulus]

What if we don't want to live under an Islamic State?

 

[Gremlins]

Whilst I agree that Islamic society has made many great acheivements in the past, and provided George Bush/Ehud Olmert doesn't have a sudden finger spasm will do in the future, it seems to me that some of your current governments are horribly corrupt. Pakistan (until November), Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey and the Maghreb countries seem to run OK most of the time, but places like Saudi Arabia and Syria are just tinpot dictatorships based on the ruling group's oil wealth, where the poor are just as repressed, although could be the fault of "rampant capitalism", rather than Islam.

Anatolian:Türkiye'deki laiklik hükümediyi seviyor musun?

 

[UIN]

well;

if you don't want to live in the Islamic governed countries now, you will after the real Muslims rulers appear.

but for the nowadays countries, I agree with you, it's far from the real Islamic govrning, but let's take a look at the UAE, where I live now:

the citizen is really cared about, they provide him with a land area, money to build a house (mostly villas), money to marry, money for children, and other kinds of support.

while I think this is not the top, but even the poor countries can do better if they made it Islamicly right.

 

[Secundulus]

well;

if you don't want to live in the Islamic governed countries now, you will after the real Muslims rulers appear.

Thank you for being honest. So the mask is off and true motivations appear.

This is why everyone must resist the spread of Islam.

But it really doesn't matter for a Christian. The Bible predicts your coming and predicts your destruction. Your time is short.

 

[UIN]

you put a meaning in my mouth I didn't state, I meant when there is a real Muslim ruler for a country, there will be a great development in it.

 

[Secundulus]

you put a meaning in my mouth I didn't state, I meant when there is a real Muslim ruler for a country, there will be a great development in it.

There are Muslim rulers in countries all over the world. What is a real Muslim ruler?

Aren't these real Muslim Rulers?

source: http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/2007/01/

 

[iano]

Any civilization that I can be charged as a criminal for selective words that I may use for even comedic purposes is a crappy civilization.
-Frowning upon criticism of mohammed and drawings of him is fine, just as you may make fun of anything else and critisize anything else is fine, but to charge me as a criminal and or take physical hostility towards me because of it, then that's something else entirely.

Any civilization that forces me to follow rules from their faith is a crappy civilization.

 

[UIN]

well, for the real Muslim rulers;

actually the real muslim rulers don't live while their people are starving, they don't use the Muslim's money for wearing any of their clothes, they are honest with their nation, this is the real Muslim ruler.

remember Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, he was checking the nation during the night, and doing the best for them.

but for humilatin Muhammad (pbuh);

if someone hurt you on the newspapers, you can sue him, right?
well, Muslims love Muhammad (pbuh) more than themselves, and he's an Islamic icon.
why denying the holocaust is a crime in some countries?

 

[Gremlins]

Secundulus: If I put together a montage of Vladimir Putin, Robert Mugabe, General Franco, and Slobodan Milosevic saying "aren't these Christian leaders?", how would you feel?

 

[iano]

if someone hurt you on the newspapers, you can sue him, right?
well, Muslims love Muhammad (pbuh) more than themselves, and he's an Islamic icon.
why denying the holocaust is a crime in some countries?

I can TRY to sue, but most likely won't win if there's basis on my character for such criticism to be told.

Theres much material about your icon that many can disagree with, poke fun at and critisize, no matter how much you LOVE him.

It doesn't matter if you love someone or something so much. I should have the freedom to voice my disagreement as should you, without threat of persecution.

About denying the holocaust; You may be looked down upon and argued with, but being criminally charged is ludicrous.

Love Mo(pbuh) all you want, love Allah all you want, love Jesus all you want, love Micheal Jackson all you want, but the best civilization gives me the right to speak my thoughts and make humor on any subject, even if my view is universally looked down upon.

Don't give me this 'they do it for our own good' BS.

 

[UIN]

this is not a good civilization I think, you know that if Muslims have their own civilization, I dare you to announce these cartoons in a mosque, you know that the Muslims thought are different than other civilizations thoughts.

then, these cartoons didn't mean just Muhammd (pbuh), they pointed to the all Islamic nation, didn't they?

couldn't you observe how people mock Islam in a way which is very far from being civilized, let's take for example "American dad" in "Stan of Arabia", I saw scenes from that child's program, they showd the Muslims to be primetive people, while showed the difference of letting the women to wear whatever they want, even dancing with underwear in the street, is that your civilization?

 

[Secundulus]

Secundulus: If I put together a montage of Vladimir Putin, Robert Mugabe, General Franco, and Slobodan Milosevic saying "aren't these Christian leaders?", how would you feel?

I wouldn't feel anything because I am not claiming that there is going to be a man that will rule a perfect Christian country or world.

 

[Secundulus]

this is not a good civilization I think, you know that if Muslims have their own civilization, I dare you to announce these cartoons in a mosque, you know that the Muslims thought are different than other civilizations thoughts.

then, these cartoons didn't mean just Muhammd (pbuh), they pointed to the all Islamic nation, didn't they?

couldn't you observe how people mock Islam in a way which is very far from being civilized, let's take for example "American dad" in "Stan of Arabia", I saw scenes from that child's program, they showd the Muslims to be primetive people, while showed the difference of letting the women to wear whatever they want, even dancing with underwear in the street, is that your civilization?

We make fun of Islam because it is Muslims that praise their Holy Mujahadeen that strap bombs on mentally retarded women and then blow them up in marketplaces full of Muslim families.