The indwelling presence

[OldAbramBrown]

My thesis is that abilities come with the indwelling presence of Jesus before the later permanent empowerment with the Spirit - Just as Jesus was indwelled by the Spirit before receiving empowerment at baptism

I developed a double threefold scheme after pondering things I had heard and read;

Jesus and Holy Spirit

i - before the world together with the Father
ii - mutual recognition with the Baptist in their wombs through HS
iii - descent at the River

Us and Holy Spirit

i - As we gradually became curious and sought truths
ii - Inbreathed / indwelt represented by events shortly prior to Ascension, in the light of much teaching He had given them
iii - empowerment for diverse ministry (summarised in "supplicating in fear") from the moment of Ascension.

"Supplicating in fear" isn't being losers. It is already the plenary condition and action of the Church, already endowed with all the gifts as they reenteered the room, as promised. See my last few posts.

They were not endowed with the gifts plural (different usage from gift of the HS singular which denotes a grouping of the distinct actions * ) before Ascension. They had received teaching all along. But for us if we received enough teaching and distinct enough teaching, it will be the "intended" norm to either receive distinctly beginning at one time, or else as we catch up with the teachings. Simple really!

{ * You can decide which is which in particular contexts by trying to match usages and the shape of different incidents related. }

 

[OldAbramBrown]

... underestimated ...

I have finished reviewing the thread. Your word "underestimate" chimes with my word "indistinct" meaning functionally incomplete.

To what contemporary high profile contrivings, and their sentimental hangers-on, are the terrible words of Rev 2-3 addressed?

Who read in 2011 that the world's topmost apologetist (ever) had suffered bullying on his sick bed aged 17?

Who watched their pals come back worse and worse, year on year (and told them so) after their visits to the camps of an irregularly ordained camp host?

Last two questions - probably quite a lot of us. Because we want the real thing to be spread abroad. We aren't losing interest out of embarrassment, or sense of threat to our organisational privilege.