The Importance of....

[INRI2]

I know many on here have a difference in doctrine on The Blessed Virgin Mary - lets forget for the minute there is any marian doctrines. i.e co-redemptrix, co-mediatrix, Perpetual Virginity, Mother Of God forget them all and any offical line towards "our lady"


Now it is my understanding that it is important to have a great devotional love towards The Blessed Virgin....why? Its not in scripture, infact our lord asks "who is my mother and who is my borthers) and I suppose it may not be a prerequisit for salvation...

However I think it is important that we should want and aspire to have this great devotional love towards St Mary...why?

Well If we love Christ, we will want to love all that he loved and who can say he never loved his own mother?

To love our lady because of our love of Christ shows that our love is begining to manifest itself towards others, for if we can not love our blessed mother and honour her how can we love Christ's enemies?

 

[SpiritDriven]

Well....if you believe the word of God.

Jesus is the only name under heaven by which men will be saved.

You could allow your focus to be drawn away from that I suppose....

Peace

 

[Markea]

Shouldn't this be in the Mariology location.. ?

 

[INRI2]

again "saved" theology takes presidence over "love" - let love be your guide, your salvation in the hands of the lord, Trust in him, he will not let you stray.

Jesus is the only name under heaven by which men will be saved.

You could allow your focus to be drawn away from that I suppose....

Its precisely because we are focused on Christ that we can begin to love the blessed virgin and the saints and each christian and even our enemies at all, seperation from the love of Christ seperates us from the blessed virgin ect.

 

[Hentenza]

Salvation=love of God. John 3:16.

Without love there is no salvation. Just be careful what kind of love you are referring to. The love of God is what saves, however, the love of things of this earth do not.

 

[JDIBe]

I know many on here have a difference in doctrine on The Blessed Virgin Mary - lets forget for the minute there is any marian doctrines. i.e co-redemptrix, co-mediatrix, Perpetual Virginity, Mother Of God forget them all and any offical line towards "our lady"


Now it is my understanding that it is important to have a great devotional love towards The Blessed Virgin....why? Its not in scripture, infact our lord asks "who is my mother and who is my borthers) and I suppose it may not be a prerequisit for salvation...

However I think it is important that we should want and aspire to have this great devotional love towards St Mary...why?

Well If we love Christ, we will want to love all that he loved and who can say he never loved his own mother?

To love our lady because of our love of Christ shows that our love is begining to manifest itself towards others, for if we can not love our blessed mother and honour her how can we love Christ's enemies?

Jesus loved John. Why not pray to him?

Jesus loved Lazarus so much He wept when he died. Why not erect statues of him? Do you call him blessed and honor him in prayer?

Mary was a good woman. A woman blessed to have a relationship with Jesus in a manner that no one has had, or ever will have. But she was a woman, nothing more. I think she would agree with that. Turn your eyes upon Jesus....

 

[Markea]

Every Christian who is born again by God has Christ in them, their hope of glory.. and they're every bit as blessed with Christ as Mary was.. unless of course people believe that having His flesh within you is greater than having His Spirit within you..

 

[sunlover1]

Well If we love Christ, we will want to love all that he loved and who can say he never loved his own mother?

Of course He'd have loved/ does love His own mother.
Surely we love all

However I think it is important that we should want and aspire to have this great devotional love towards St Mary...why?

But we want to remember who Jesus spent HIS time in
devotion to.
No it wasnt the mother, but rather the Father.

Check out the difference.
First of all, there are only about four references to "my mother" in the NT, compared with hundreds to His Father.

You can see the contrast here:
16 And said unto them that sold doves,
Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise.

32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.

33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.


Jesus defended His Father's house, but didnt even bother
to acknowledge His mother.
In fact He redirected the attention FROM mary, back
onto His Father.

Youre right, maybe we should treat her the same way
He did.


The important thing is devotion to HIM, as you said,
it's not mandatory or even suggested that we are
'devoted' to mary, just that she is blessed among women.

Blessed she is.

sunlover


25 At that time Jesus answered and said,
I thank thee, O Father,
Lord of heaven and earth,
because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent,
and hast revealed them unto babes.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father:
and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
neither knoweth any man the Father,
save the Son,
and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples,
and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven,
the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name,
receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?

To love our lady because of our love of Christ shows that our love is begining to manifest itself towards others, for if we can not love our blessed mother and honour her how can we love Christ's enemies?

Actually, she's not my mother.

 

[INRI2]

Turn your eyes upon Jesus....

I tell you the truth, unless your eyes are upon Christ, you have no love in you, if you have no love in you, you can not love The blessed virgin.

"Salvation=love of God. John 3:16"

Exactly, let love be your guide!!!!!

i.e let Jesus be your guide!

Jesus loved John. Why not pray to him?

Jesus loved Lazarus so much He wept when he died. Why not erect statues of him? Do you call him blessed and honor him in prayer?

Mary was a good woman. A woman blessed to have a relationship with Jesus in a manner that no one has had, or ever will have. But she was a woman, nothing more. I think she would agree with that. Turn your eyes upon Jesus....

Of course we should love St John and of course Lazaraus even Ciaphas and the roman soldiers but we do not errect statues because we love them but in honor of what they did for Christ. Just as the state has staues that honor those who did great things for the state so we have staues that honour those who did great things for Christ.

Your all correct, but does that mean I am wrong?

does being devoted to the father mean we can not be devoted to our lords mother?

Every Christian who is born again by God has Christ in them, their hope of glory.. and they're every bit as blessed with Christ as Mary was.. unless of course people believe that having His flesh within you is greater than having His Spirit within you..

Are you saying then we should hate and chastise Christs mother as much as we hate and chastise each other?

Are you saying we should not love Mary because she was "just a woman"

I say to you first, learn to love your mother so that you can then learn to love your brother. Because if we can not love her who birthed our saviour how can you love those who killed him?

 

[JDIBe]

does being devoted to the father mean we can not be devoted to our lords mother?

If we are devoted to our Father can we not be devoted to Moses and Elijah? Read Matthew 17 and see how that turned out.

Are you saying then we should hate and chastise Christs mother as much as we hate and chastise each other?

Are you saying we should not love Mary because she was "just a woman"

Many of the people I respect (including the Apostes) were "just men or women". That does not mean I hate them. That doesn't mean I chastise them either. It simply means I maintain a proper perspective.

I say to you first, learn to love your mother so that you can then learn to love your brother. Because if we can not love her who birthed our saviour how can you love those who killed him?

True, it is good to love your mother. But to develop an unhealthy obsession with her is not desirable.

 

[tadoflamb]

JMJ

I love the Blessed Mother because she's the one who introduced me to her glorious Son.

Pax,

Tad

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Difference is, I have a personal relationship with Christ. I don't have a personal relationship with Mary, and that's a prerequisite to love. I greatly admire Mary, but that's all that's really possible.

 

[Markea]

JMJ

I love the Blessed Mother because she's the one who introduced me to her glorious Son.

Pax,

Tad

How so..?

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Let's all love Mary by glorifying her son.
Thank you Lord! I will praise you forever!

 

[INRI2]

Let's all love Mary by glorifying her son.
Thank you Lord! I will praise you forever

Indeed, by loving others we glorify the lord.

"By this all people will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

"love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law."

Good post Ishida and a Good point, by loving Christs mother we glorifiy her son.

Difference is, I have a personal relationship with Christ. I don't have a personal relationship with Mary, and that's a prerequisite to love. I greatly admire Mary, but that's all that's really possible.

Nothing is impossible with God, pray for him to help you see how the lord himself sees his mother and how she sees her son, by this you may learn the love Christ has for others and also how your love for christ may develop even further.

If we are devoted to our Father can we not be devoted to Moses and Elijah? Read Matthew 17 and see how that turned out.

of course we should be devoted to them, it turned out really bad, didnt it, Peter, James and John all experianced the lord in his glory!

Many of the people I respect (including the Apostes) were "just men or women". That does not mean I hate them. That doesn't mean I chastise them either. It simply means I maintain a proper perspective.

An indifference?

If you merely respect the apostles, these many people who make up "just men or women" of Jesus Christ and have no love for them, how can you even begin to love those who crucify Christ everyday?

True, it is good to love your mother. But to develop an unhealthy obsession with her is not desirable.

I agree with you, but so long as we keep our relationship with her in perspective to our relationship with Christ then our love for her will never become an unhealthy obsesion, we have to remember that love is infinite and boundless, love for our lady is infinie and boundless and our love for each other is infinie and boundless but it comes as a result of our infinite and boundless love for Christ.

We love our lady in accordance with our love of Jesus. the amount of love and honour we give Mary is directly related to the love and honour we give her son.
Love for Christ and love for his mother and all of Gods Children are inter connected.

the minute we fail to love, we begin to hate.

 

[JDIBe]

of course we should be devoted to them, it turned out really bad, didnt it, Peter, James and John all experianced the lord in his glory!

Yes, well Sodom and Gomorah "experienced the Lord in all His glory, too." My point was, the idea was not received well. God let him know where to direct his attention.

I agree with you, but so long as we keep our relationship with her in perspective to our relationship with Christ then our love for her will never become an unhealthy obsesion, we have to remember that love is infinite and boundless, love for our lady is infinie and boundless and our love for each other is infinie and boundless but it comes as a result of our infinite and boundless love for Christ.

We love our lady in accordance with our love of Jesus. the amount of love and honour we give Mary is directly related to the love and honour we give her son.
Love for Christ and love for his mother and all of Gods Children are inter connected.

If your love is as boundless for your fellow Christians as it is for Mary, I hope you will consider treating and respecting them the same way as you do her.

 

[INRI2]

Yes, well Sodom and Gomorah "experienced the Lord in all His glory, too." My point was, the idea was not received well. God let him know where to direct his attention.

It was at this point the Father revealed to peter who Jesus was, it wasnt a chastisment it was a blessing.

"blessed are you simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but my father in heaven"

You could say it was their devotion to elijiah and moses that was cause of this blessing

If your love is as boundless for your fellow Christians as it is for Mary, I hope you will consider treating and respecting them the same way as you do her.

You see the importance then?

I tell you the truth this love is not Just for our lady, and not only for fellow christians but even for terrorists, murders, homosexuals, abortionists, pedophiles and all the enemies of christ.

 

[sunlover1]

Nothing is impossible with God, pray for him to help you see how the lord himself sees his mother and how she sees her son, by this you may learn the love Christ has for others and also how your love for christ may develop even further.

We can pretty much observe how Christ sees His mother
and how He sees all of humanity cant we, by reading
the Bible?

Jesus came here 'in the flesh' but He
was the Lord, not some regular guy.
He even told the guys that they should no longer
know ANY man after the flesh, but rather in a new
way as the new creatures they were, in a spiritual
way.

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:
yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,
yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ,
he is a new creature: old things are passed away;
behold, all things are become new.

My love for my family is indescribable, but compared
to my relationship with God it's nothing.
We don't want to look at Marys relationship with Christ
our Lord in a different light than it actually was right?

25 And there went great multitudes with him:
and he turned, and said unto them,
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father,
and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren,
and sisters, yea, and his own life also,
he cannot be my disciple

It appears Jesus is telling them to hate THEIR mommies,
(although He isnt, it's a comparison) so I think that
makes it kind of clear where His priority lies.

Then we can see how He felt about earthly things here too:

and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us?
behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

(Sort of sad huh? I mean these two sound VERY
worried, maybe even a bit mad. Surely He's going
to comfort their sadness and apologize etc.)
Here we go:

49 And he said unto them,
How is it that ye sought me?
wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?


So again, He diverts the subject back to His FATHER.

We can pray about that, but God has pretty much
shown us where Jesus' heart was while on earth.

He was focused on His father's business,
like that business He was sent for....

But for the joy that was set before Him...
HE endured the Cross...
And now He sits at the right hand of God.


http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6003681#_ftnref2

 

[INRI2]

He was focused on His father's business,
like that business He was sent for....

But for the joy that was set before Him...
HE endured the Cross...
And now He sits at the right hand of God.

and what was that business?

to love all humanity, even unto death, death on a cross.

"not everyone who says to me lord, lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my father in heaven"

The reason he always pointed to the father is so because we are not only to love each other according to human standards but according to the standard of God and it is this glory that we all fall short of.

 

[sunlover1]

and what was that business?

to love all humanity, even unto death, death on a cross.

"not everyone who says to me lord, lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my father in heaven"

What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God,
that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.http://foru.ms/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6003681#_ftn1

The reason he always pointed to the father is so because we are not only to love each other according to human standards but according to the standard of God and it is this glory that we all fall short of

Amen, the God kind of love,
from a pure heart, unfeigned!

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this,
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,
and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


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