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I can see how you could fit into the Catholic scene, but "real" Catholics would look askance as if you were some sort of Cafeteria Catholic.
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Oh I get the dogma part. But as I don't have to believe it, it doesn't concern me. That is unless I want to become Catholic. And even then there's so much wiggle room in that dogma that it doesn't really require a load of study to believe. It's that Dogma word that causes us to even dig in the first place.
Now I gotta ask: Do you see how my belief could actually fit the Catechism? And it could also fit in a pre-teen Baptist Sunday school teaching. (mine not theirs).
I was wondering when someone would ask that obvious question. Like it's a sin to be born? Man, that's an odd belief for me to swallow. Excuse me but I'll pass on that one.Is original sin Biblical?
Yes, a Catholic must believe that God created Mary without sin (in other words, the perfect human). We don't have to hold an opinion about whether Jesus was born in blood or not. Or whether Mary died or not.
Do you know Catholics who say they disagree about Mary's Immaculate Conception? I don't. But here's the thing: Here's how it's a mortal sin. I wake up some morning in the future, and say to myself "Self, you know, the Church teaches that Mary was born immaculate. But I don't think the Church knows what she's talking about, and I refuse to agree with this dogma." On the other hand, if I don't completely understand all the implications of this dogma, and say "Self, I don't know how the Church comes up with these things, but I humbly submit to it, whether I understand it or not." There's no mortal sin there.
By the way, the Church sends no one to hell. But people commit themselves to hell all the time.
Maybe.I can see how you could fit into the Catholic scene, but "real" Catholics would look askance as if you were some sort of Cafeteria Catholic.
Maybe.
But I find their dogma pretty vague as well. I think most Catholics would just say, "close enough'. I don't think they do an inquisition on new converts.
I'm thinking it's taught a bit vague for a reason. I can't say I've met many Catholics who take it to the extremes we non-Catholics say they teach it.
Quite true. Most Catholics are not terribly well-versed in their dogma. That is true, as well, of many other denominations, so I hope that the Catholic posters here do not take this comment personally.
I've read many. Only one is considered authoritative.
This is Mama's immaculate belief of Mary's conception.
At that very moment of conception God created His perfect vessel to be the Mother of Our Lord. Perfect because He made her.
No need to go further, add too or read any more into it than that.
Now everything I do because of my belief, is the nice dress, fine linen tablecloth, flowers and candle. And of coarse a kiss. And yes I iron the table cloth and napkins. It makes me hungry in a good way.
And I can see you read more into what I wrote than was written.
I didn't say, not mortal, nor did I even allude to sinless. Just perfect because God made her. I could have said all but the motherhood part about you. even not believing you were born through your mother's nostrils.
I'm making a point here. We agree dogmatizing (I think I just invented a word) it was one of those , "You chose poorly' moments. I'd even fathom to guess most but the Catholic would agree with that.
So we are left with the teaching. Shouldn't we pick that apart by the words used in the Catechism? It get's a bit more difficult then. We tend to add to it what is not written without even trying to.
Me and you both read that Catechism as saying what you said a few post back. But that's not really what it says. It has a lot more wiggle-room in it.
I'm not so sure my posted belief wouldn't fit into it. But the heart of the beliefs are different.
So let's try this again:
At the moment Albion was conceived, God created the perfect Albion. Perfect because God made him. Perfect at what? Being Albion.
There may, indeed, be varying levels of understanding of any doctrine, but i think you will agree that regardless of to what degree one understands the dogma of the Immaculate Conception one must believe it in order to be saved. It is, after all, a de fide dogma. The Church may excommunicate you for not believing it, but its teaching is clear that not believing it is a mortal sin which will send you to hell.
But is Immaculate Conception biblical? I always thought that anyone born from day 1 had original sin and that included Mary.
If Mary didn't have original sin than she would have been an angel brought from heaven or created by God himself which I don't think is scripture itself but than again what do I know I'm still learning.
So any reason why he wouldn't, especially for his only Son?
Excommunication, you're right, is not sending someone to hell. It's more like chemotherapy-you gotta be rough with it, and there might be collateral damage, but the intent is to get your head turned around straight.
Regarding the Immaculate Conception, there's a lot of levels of belief. You can accept it as truth, and not think too much of it (like how I posted-God wanted a perfect mother for his son, and so he made it happen). You can dig deeper, and get some nuances, deeper still and get more, and you can get down into the nitty gritty, and start on the peripheral stuff that's not required. But Protestants don't usually get that, and so they dig into the periphery, and ignore the central issue.
There may, indeed, be varying levels of understanding of any doctrine, but i think you will agree that regardless of to what degree one understands the dogma of the Immaculate Conception one must believe it in order to be saved. It is, after all, a de fide dogma. The Church may excommunicate you for not believing it, but its teaching is clear that not believing it is a mortal sin which will send you to hell.
Now are we speaking about Catholics or are we speaking for the entire Christian belief system.
So let's say a Baptist or a Protestant doesn't believe in IC does that mean they committed a mortal sin? Do all Christian religions have to follow that doctrine?
Show the history of the idea, if you dare. Even the Catholic Church notes that that this is not a historic idea.
It is an unnecessary theology. There is nothing about Mary that would make Jesus impure, whether or not she was immaculately conceived.
But is Immaculate Conception biblical? I always thought that anyone born from day 1 had original sin and that included Mary.
If Mary didn't have original sin than she would have been an angel brought from heaven or created by God himself which I don't think is scripture itself but than again what do I know I'm still learning.
Now are we speaking about Catholics or are we speaking for the entire Christian belief system.
So let's say a Baptist or a Protestant doesn't believe in IC does that mean they committed a mortal sin? Do all Christian religions have to follow that doctrine?
Now are we speaking about Catholics or are we speaking for the entire Christian belief system.
So let's say a Baptist or a Protestant doesn't believe in IC does that mean they committed a mortal sin? Do all Christian religions have to follow that doctrine?
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