The idea of God seems totally inconceivable...

[Freodin]

That's my point. If God is a human fabrication he certainly wouldn't resemble the God of the bible. He would be a kinder, gentler God who would mostly overlook our sins (if indeed sins were even part of the deal). If you're going to invent a God make him to let you do stuff instead of being so restrictive.

So, your point is exactly the opposite of what Ana said... and you say that wha he said is your point?

I'd rethink what you just wrote, if I were you.

 

[durangodawood]

That's my point. If God is a human fabrication he certainly wouldn't resemble the God of the bible. He would be a kinder, gentler God who would mostly overlook our sins (if indeed sins were even part of the deal). If you're going to invent a God make him to let you do stuff instead of being so restrictive.

You forget that some people are actually wise, and not merely self-serving. The suggestion is that the various gods are sort of cumulative creations of the wise, who know that an all-permissive deity might spell doom for the society.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So, your point is exactly the opposite of what Ana said... and you say that wha he said is your point?

I'd rethink what you just wrote, if I were you.

It's the ole' "tell them you agree before disagreeing" chestnut...3rd oldest trick in the book.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You forget that some people are actually wise, and not merely self-serving. The suggestion is that the various gods are sort of cumulative creations of the wise, who know that an all-permissive deity might spell doom for the society.

It's funny how closely a religious theme can mirror the needs of a particular group at a particular time. The Vikings had a religion that promoted excellence in battle...urging them to be fearless warriors. Christianity has a strong overtone of passivity...especially towards the Romans...which is mighty convenient after the failed rebellions and messiahs before Christ.

 

[Albion]

It's funny how closely a religious theme can mirror the needs of a particular group at a particular time. The Vikings had a religion that promoted excellence in battle...urging them to be fearless warriors. Christianity has a strong overtone of passivity...especially towards the Romans...which is mighty convenient after the failed rebellions and messiahs before Christ.

That seems a pretty big stretch. Of course, it's "towards" the Romans because the Romans ruled "the world" at that time. For the hearers of the Gospel, there'd be no other government to either oppose or serve. And it's just as easy to make a case from Christ's teachings for righteous opposition to injustice as it is to make one for pacifism.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why?
If you invent one you're still going to want one that punishes people you don't like.

But you wouldn't invent one that punishes you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You forget that some people are actually wise, and not merely self-serving. The suggestion is that the various gods are sort of cumulative creations of the wise, who know that an all-permissive deity might spell doom for the society.

That's a bit ironic isn't it? Many claim that it is religion that is harming society.

 

[durangodawood]

But you wouldn't invent one that punishes you.

We are talking about myths cultivated by the wise in a culture. Not some self-serving notion that feels good for a moment, but weakens the society. Those dont last.

 

[durangodawood]

That's a bit ironic isn't it? Many claim that it is religion that is harming society.

Yes! Its totally ironic. Religion has been a preserver of cultures over time. Thats why religion is generally a conservative force. But times change, and so must religion. And when religion lags too far behind or gets ultra dogmatic and rigid, or when various religions clash, then it becomes harmful

 

[jenny1972]

Yes! Its totally ironic. Religion has been a preserver of cultures over time. Thats why religion is generally a conservative force. But times change, and so must religion. And when religion lags too far behind or gets ultra dogmatic and rigid, or when various religions clash, then it becomes harmful

religions change as society changes it changes with humanity since humanity created it Christianity varies by the culture that practices it taking from the Bible and interpreting what they want as people feel it should be interpreted and leaving what doesnt apply to them or what they disagree with . God is real and we need to focus on God alone.

 

[bhsmte]

And that is evidence of God's existence. To many people God seems inconceivable, if God is inconceivable, then we likely didn't make him up.

One of St. Thomas Aquinas' arguments was that, since god has attributes that are foreign to us, we wouldn't have just conceived god from our imagination.

Is the fact that God is inconceivable be proof that there is a god?

No.

From a psychological standpoint, man has and can try to convince himself of inconceivable things all the time. All depends on each individuals, personal psychological needs.

 

[pgp_protector]

But you wouldn't invent one that punishes you.

If I was a religious leader and wanted to control my people I would.

 

[stevenfrancis]

And that is evidence of God's existence. To many people God seems inconceivable, if God is inconceivable, then we likely didn't make him up.

One of St. Thomas Aquinas' arguments was that, since god has attributes that are foreign to us, we wouldn't have just conceived god from our imagination.

Is the fact that God is inconceivable be proof that there is a god?

Interesting idea and post. For me, personally, it doesn't work, because if I accepted this premise as a proof, I would have to accept it as a proof for atheism. You see, at no time in my life have I ever been able to conceive of the non-existence of God. I have been blessed with an innate knowledge of a creative God since as far as my memory can stretch. Even though my conversion to Christianity wasn't accomplished, largely until my late 40's, I've still never been able to conceive, even with deep thought, meditation, and study of a self created universe that could arbitrarily produce rational, intellectual, spiritual beings. It is inconceivable to me in every way. So since I can't conceive of the non-existence of God, would that prove that God doesn't exist, since the thought behind there not being a God is beyond my, (and many others), lack of ability to conceive of a Godless universe?

Still......interesting stuff to ponder.

 

[bhsmte]

It is inconceivable that man would invent the God of the bible. If I were to invent a 'god' he or she would allow me to anything I want.....kinda like (gasp) the god of this world!

Not considering what time period the bible was written and how ignorant people were to certain facts.

When people are naive and ignorant, they tend to respond to manufactured fear tactics quite well. The bible is a "good cop", "bad cop" technique. Scare them into compliance with the OT and then throw them the bone in the NT.

 

[Ana the Ist]

But you wouldn't invent one that punishes you.

Of course not, I'd make it punish everyone else. I'd be self righteously perfect. A king of kings.

 

[bhsmte]

But you wouldn't invent one that punishes you.

Since Christian theology basically dooms 2/3 of the worlds population (because they disagree), it appears those who are punished, are others.

 

[keith99]

I'm trying to figure out just what attributes of God are inconceivable. Overall most gods seem to have the morals and manners of spoiled children along with great power. I'll admit that is a disturbing combination but far from inconceivable.

 

[Albion]

When people are naive and ignorant, they tend to respond to manufactured fear tactics quite well. The bible is a "good cop", "bad cop" technique. Scare them into compliance with the OT and then throw them the bone in the NT.

I guess that's what many an atheist would say, sure. But it doesn't mean that this is the correct explanation.

 

[bhsmte]

I guess that's what many an atheist would say, sure. But it doesn't mean that this is the correct explanation.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It seems logical to me though.

 

[EvietheTurtle]

Immanuel Kant dealt with it all and his belief was that if God could be proven it would make faith pointless. He saw it as a strength of Christianity for God to be unprovable because that's what makes faith special, according to Kant.

I personally am not convinced by any arguments and I don't even know how I can genuinely faithfully believe and not merely wish there was a loving God. If only there was one but I remain an atheist and I don't expect that to change....

I don't consider God impossible but I need convincing because I'm not sure how "Faith" is supposed to work. I am a happy atheist though.