The idea of God seems totally inconceivable...

[Eudaimonist]

To many people God seems inconceivable

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I think I know where you're going with this and honestly I like this point. But the problem with the god hypothesis being inconceivable is you've already tried to conceive it... thousands of times... in several different religions and societies... So just because you couldn't and can't nail down a solid definition doesn't make the idea inconceivable it makes it inconsistent.

 

[jenny1972]

And that is evidence of God's existence. To many people God seems inconceivable, if God is inconceivable, then we likely didn't make him up.

One of St. Thomas Aquinas' arguments was that, since god has attributes that are foreign to us, we wouldn't have just conceived god from our imagination.

Is the fact that God is inconceivable be proof that there is a god?

if God is inconceivable then how do you explain THIS

or this

or a thousand other conceptions of God that humans have come up with we have an innate tendency to invent the particular God that suits our needs create qualities that we want God to have , humans do not like mystery we are problem solvers . God is a mystery and we cannot put God into a neat little self contained box and be satisfied not really (although of course many people think they have).

 

[Albion]

if God is inconceivable then how do you explain THIS

or this

or a thousand other conceptions of God that humans have come up with we have an innate tendency to invent the particular God that suits our needs create qualities that we want God to have , humans do not like mystery we are problem solvers . God is a mystery and we cannot put God into a neat little self contained box and be satisfied not really (although of course many people think they have).

This isn't exactly a case of inventing a God who suits our needs. The main reason that God is pictured as a dignified old man is because the Bible described him as a Father figure and describes Moses as having seen him in human form. He could merely have assumed a shape in order to help us relate, but this is not the same as us having simply invented his appearance or nature to suit ourselves.

 

[jenny1972]

This isn't exactly a case of inventing a God who suits our needs. The main reason that God is pictured as a dignified old man is because the Bible described him as a Father figure and describes Moses as having seen him in human form. He could merely have assumed a shape in order to help us relate, but this is not the same as us having simply invented his appearance or nature to suit ourselves.

God created us with creativity and imaginations so im sure anything we imagine about God is understood by Him we are exactly what God created us to be

 

[com7fy8]

If all existence is material and if living beings are the result of evolving DNA producing various living forms, then this would mean atoms and molecules have developed into living forms which can experience God's love (Romans 5:5) to be better than human love.

If all is material, then Christians who experience our Father ruling us in His own peace (Colossians 3:15) are doing all this as a result of how DNA has developed us and then how we have interacted with materials around us so we are experiencing Jesus giving us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) . . . in spite of how material evil does things in this world.

If material existence is all there is, then materials have produced humans who suffer because of evil, while material principles of interaction have produced others who become more and more loving because of how they react to the same evil >

"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... To many people God seems inconceivable, if God is inconceivable, then we likely didn't make him up.

Er, no; it suggests that the people to whom God seems inconceivable didn't make him up.

In any case it appears to be an equivocation of 'conceivable'.

 

[Received]

And that is evidence of God's existence. To many people God seems inconceivable, if God is inconceivable, then we likely didn't make him up.

One of St. Thomas Aquinas' arguments was that, since god has attributes that are foreign to us, we wouldn't have just conceived god from our imagination.

Is the fact that God is inconceivable be proof that there is a god?

If God is inconceivable, you can't even talk about him, not even metaphorically.

You also can't define something into existence based on its "foreignness".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It is inconceivable that man would invent the God of the bible. If I were to invent a 'god' he or she would allow me to anything I want.....kinda like (gasp) the god of this world!

 

[seashale76]

And that is evidence of God's existence. To many people God seems inconceivable, if God is inconceivable, then we likely didn't make him up.

One of St. Thomas Aquinas' arguments was that, since god has attributes that are foreign to us, we wouldn't have just conceived god from our imagination.

Is the fact that God is inconceivable be proof that there is a god?

I've got some quotes related to this:

"For behold, all our lofty doctrines, how destitute they are of reasonings, and dependent on faith alone. God is not anywhere, and is everywhere. What has less reason than this (What idea makes less logical sense)? He was not made, He did not make Himself, He never began to be. What reasoning will receive this if there is no faith?" -St. John the Chrysostom

"Abraham passed through all the reasoning that is possible to human nature about the divine attributes, and after he had purified his mind of all such concepts, he took hold of a faith that was unmixed and pure of any concept, and he fashioned for himself this token of knowledge of God that is completely clear and free of error, namely the belief that God completely transcends any knowable symbol. And so, after this ecstasy which came upon him as a result of these lofty visions, Abraham returned one more to his human frailty: `I am,' he admits (Gen. 18:27), `dust and ashes,' mute, inert, incapable of explaining rationally the Godhead that my mind has seen." -St. Gregory of Nyssa, From Glory to Glory

"But someone will say, If the Divine substance is incomprehensible, why then do you discourse on these things? So then, because I cannot drink up all the river, an I not even to take in moderation what is expedient for me? Because with eyes so constituted as mine I cannot take in all the sun, am I not even to look upon him enough to satisfy my wants? Or again, because I have entered into a great garden, and cannot eat all the supply of fruits, would you have me go away altogether hungry? I praise and glorify Him Who made us; for it is a divine command which says, 'Let every breath praise the Lord' (Ps. 150:6). I am attempting now to glorify the Lord, but not to describe Him, knowing nevertheless that I shall fall short of glorifying Him worthily, yet deeming it a work of piety even to attempt it at all." -St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures: Lecture 6 no. 5)

"God is comprehensible in our contemplation of His attributes [or divine energies], but God is incomprehensible in our contemplation of His divine essence." -St. Maximus the Confessor(Cent. On Charity, IV, 7, trans. Pegon, Sources Chretiennes 9, p.153)

"If you wish to save your soul and win eternal life, arise from your lethargy, make the sign of the Cross and say: In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Faith comes not through pondering but through action. Not words and speculation but experience teaches us what God is. To let in fresh air we have to open a window; to get tanned we must go out into the sunshine. Achieving faith is no different; we never reach a goal by just sitting in comfort and waiting, say the Holy Fathers. Let the Prodigal Son be our example. He "arose and came." (Luke 15:20)." -Tito Colliander, The Way of the Ascetics.

 

[Reyes4Christ]

We already have an example of how God can be real and yet inconceivable to his creation. Video games are like this. If you had a video game world that had characters as fleshed out as the movie the matrix. You now have a "creation" that can think for itself yet lives because of the rules you set up. If the goal was to have these characters worship you for the right reasons, would you make your presence always known or would you shroud it a bit so the people you know are wicked will not find it? Those who find the truth will have their minds and eyes opened so they see the world as it truly is, and know that this world holds no lasting rewards. That only by following God can you attain a true and everlasting reward.
Now imaging there was a virus that had infected the computer the game was running off of that was trying to set up a little kingdom of its own by using cheat codes and hacking. You would be too busy fighting against this virus that seeing all the things God would be doing to help you finish the game a winner would be that much harder to see. Also, as the master programmer, your character would be immersed so into the game that you would lose a sense of self anyway. Even in our world you can mess up someones brain enough to turn them into a crazy messed up version of whatever you want them to be. Mind control programs have a pretty long history. I'm just saying its technically possible that a mind can be altered to change a person. So now if the programmer gave the characters the ability to create babies that inherit the good and bad traits of the parents now you have another hurdle you must go against to win the game. The winners are those who are willing to give up everything the game world offers so that they can gain what they can never see while in the game. Because the truth is that its just a game, and what is real is outside of the game world. The winners will get a real and lasting reward even after the virus is wiped and the system is rebooted.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If all existence is material and if living beings are the result of evolving DNA producing various living forms, then this would mean atoms and molecules have developed into living forms which can experience God's love (Romans 5:5) to be better than human love.

If all is material, then Christians who experience our Father ruling us in His own peace (Colossians 3:15) are doing all this as a result of how DNA has developed us and then how we have interacted with materials around us so we are experiencing Jesus giving us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) . . . in spite of how material evil does things in this world.

If material existence is all there is, then materials have produced humans who suffer because of evil, while material principles of interaction have produced others who become more and more loving because of how they react to the same evil >

"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)

You said something here that makes me wonder...

Do you think you can "feel" someone/something's emotions?

 

[Ana the Ist]

It is inconceivable that man would invent the God of the bible. If I were to invent a 'god' he or she would allow me to anything I want.....kinda like (gasp) the god of this world!

What use would that religion be?

If the goal of religion is to change behavior...you certainly wouldn't want to tell people they can do whatever they like. You'd want to give them rules, and incentives for following those rules. You would need to play to people's fears and hopes.

 

[Eudaimonist]

If you had a video game world that had characters as fleshed out as the movie the matrix. You now have a "creation" that can think for itself yet lives because of the rules you set up. If the goal was to have these characters worship you for the right reasons, would you make your presence always known or would you shroud it a bit so the people you know are wicked will not find it?

Why would I want to hide myself as a creator from wicked people? Those would be the very people I would most want to reach. The virtuous people would have no need of me.

That said, I wouldn't want anyone to worship me. I'm not a megalomaniac.

Now imaging there was a virus that had infected the computer the game was running off of that was trying to set up a little kingdom of its own by using cheat codes and hacking. You would be too busy fighting against this virus that seeing all the things God would be doing to help you finish the game a winner would be that much harder to see.

If I were a master programmer, I wouldn't write my "code" in a way that would let it create viruses in the first place.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Freodin]

God is much too conceivable. The only problem is that many people conceive different and contradicting things, and keep insisting that they all must still be correct.

But it is inconceivable that people would come up with different and contradicting ideas on their own, right? So I guess that proves that there is a God.

Or not. Humans are complicated.

 

[Papias]

This isn't exactly a case of inventing a God who suits our needs. The main reason that God is pictured as a dignified old man is because the Bible described him as a Father figure and describes Moses as having seen him in human form. He could merely have assumed a shape in order to help us relate, but this is not the same as us having simply invented his appearance or nature to suit ourselves.

Right. Plus the book of Daniel describes him as a white haired man in chapter 7. As Albion points out, the scripture describes him as an old man, so regardless of how we interpret that, we didn't make it up.

His clothing was as white as snow
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
​

Papias

 

[fat wee robin]

I never got into but so much of St. Aquinas, but..
It all ties further into predestination, and the force which has created and driven the universe from the start to now to cause people to believe in God- and others to not.
It's called 'invincible ignorance', and is put in place to secure that the inconceivable remains true and yet the same. This lays out the foundation for faith that, without, could give no more improvement to the souls of men. Or, the purpose of our continued occupation on Earth in the first place.

Could you please expand on this a bit more ? I do not believe that we have only 'one life' .Perhaps 'one death ' after salvation ;more akin to that which many Jewish believers think,but not exactly .There is proof of this ,but not for now .
So whI would like to know is more about the idea of 'predestination' ,which do not adhere to ,but need to understand better .
When I know this it will contribute to this discussion . Thankyou .

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What use would that religion be?

If the goal of religion is to change behavior...you certainly wouldn't want to tell people they can do whatever they like. You'd want to give them rules, and incentives for following those rules. You would need to play to people's fears and hopes.

That's my point. If God is a human fabrication he certainly wouldn't resemble the God of the bible. He would be a kinder, gentler God who would mostly overlook our sins (if indeed sins were even part of the deal). If you're going to invent a God make him to let you do stuff instead of being so restrictive.

 

[pgp_protector]

That's my point. If God is a human fabrication he certainly wouldn't resemble the God of the bible. He would be a kinder, gentler God who would mostly overlook our sins (if indeed sins were even part of the deal). If you're going to invent a God make him to let you do stuff instead of being so restrictive.

Why?
If you invent one you're still going to want one that punishes people you don't like.
Also no one person would actually invented it,it would be invented overtime as people try to explain stuff they don't understand.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's my point. If God is a human fabrication he certainly wouldn't resemble the God of the bible. He would be a kinder, gentler God who would mostly overlook our sins (if indeed sins were even part of the deal). If you're going to invent a God make him to let you do stuff instead of being so restrictive.

And what would the point of that be? Of what use is a religion that lets you do as you please? Why would you need it?