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Also, it was never Bouteneff's intent to prove that Adam did not exist, but to argue that historicity in itself is of secondary importance. He specifically states in his closing that "the point is not, then, whether the fathers took the seven "days" or Adam to be historical. For the fathers, as for us, the historicity question has much more to do with how narrative, and scriptural narrative especially, works to convey its message."
Here is quote from someone on another forum on this issue. I thought he phrased it better than I could hope to:
Having a longer and better-said post wiped out, and having lost my time on this one...Just to clarify, a scientific theory isn't just a hypothesis.
"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation."
Evolution is a theory in the same way that gravity is a theory. The latter has the fortunate status of being undeniable whereas the former requires years of study in order to understand it adequately.
Regardless of where everyone ends up, I recommend they learn about evolution from the experts rather than monks who may not have ever picked up a science textbook.
Having a longer and better-said post wiped out, and having lost my time on this one...
The problem is that you treat scientific theory as inerrant fact, and take no acount of the philosophy governing the scientists - and your own thought. Just because we have come to the Church does not mean that everything is now in order in our personal philosophy - though the Church can help over time if we let it.
So instead of my words, try this:
The Revival of Philosophy Why?
Every man has one of two things. Including scientists.
I may not be saying the same thing here at all, but I do think it is important to point out that to say that something is allegorical does not mean that it can have no historical elements.
Allegories often have historical, real people in them, or historical events. They just aren't presented in the same way a straight history would be.
Even something that is largely historically structured can be cleaned up or made more understandable or have elements added in order to make the meaning clearer.
There is no necessary requirement to read any text as wholly literary or wholly historical.
This. Just this.These sophisticated ideas are sophisticated nonsense, full of sophistry that amounts to the unwitting worship of a human (and fallible) discipline, holding it higher than the authority and teachings of the Church.
No way Adam didnt exist, he was so real as you and me, with a heart, limbs, lungs, eyes etc.
It would be more accurate to say I treat evolution as a highly likely probablility. That being said, I am highly critical of certain types of evolutionary theories, and I am a huge critic of the philosophies, or lack thereof, that govern people in various fields, be they social sciences, physical sciences, or humanities. I studied the philosophy of science extensively during my time as an undergraduate. One of my best friends is a die-hard, sola scriptura young-earth creationist and I have had the pleasure of debating this issue and reading several books he has given me on the matter. I can provide this list as you wish. In the end I remain convinced that an evolutionary theory of some sort best explains thing like the hominid fossil record, why human beings have useless body parts, or why humans still carry the DNA for tails or why whales carry DNA for legs. These are just a few of many examples I could offer. I actually think evolution is is a beautiful, macro-level representation of what every one of us undergoes from conception to maturity.The problem is that you treat scientific theory as inerrant fact, and take no acount of the philosophy governing the scientists - and your own thought.
If my belief in what I see to be a very probable explanation leads some to think I shouldn't be Orthodox they are welcome to their opinion, but I have been told by priests, bishops, metropolitans, and monks in the Orthodox faith that it is perfectly acceptable to believe in theistic evolution.
Do I agree with everything the scientific community promotes pertaining to evolution? Absolutely not. However, I also don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I accept probable truths where I find them. If my belief in what I see to be a very probable explanation leads some to think I shouldn't be Orthodox they are welcome to their opinion, but I have been told by priests, bishops, metropolitans, and monks in the Orthodox faith that it is perfectly acceptable to believe in theistic evolution.
I would go with what they tell you over what you hear from anonymous laypeople on Internet forums!
i don't understand why it always has to come to this in these threads. who ever suggested that you should not become Orthodox? i've seen no one say any such thing. although this thread has been amicable, it's generally the Creationists who are far more scorned than the evolutionists.
no one here is saying that a belief in evolution bars entry to the Church, those of us that are Creationists are just explaining why we think what we do based on evidence we have seen. no one is questioning someone's devotion, piety, love for God, knowledge of the Fathers and Scriptures, etc because they believe in evolution.
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