The Hijab

[Catherineanne]

I see it as a sign of modesty which many people on this planet could use.

What is a 'sign of modesty' when it is at home?

I am a respectable Christian woman. If I put on a scarf, am I any more respectable? If I take it off again, do I take off my respectability with it? Islam appears to think so.

The answer is no, I do not take off my respectability with my scarf, or my coat, or my gloves, or anything else. I am who I am, regardless of what I wear, because who I am is about me, not about my clothes.

Surely what is needed, therefore, is modesty itself, not outward signs pertaining to represent modesty.

I think you are forgetting that in Moslem countries even the prostitutes wear Islamic dress. Dress is cultural, it is not about morality.

 

[xDenax]

What is a 'sign of modesty' when it is at home?

I haven't heard anyone say they wear it at home when they are alone, with just small children or their husband. Have you? Then again, if one wears it out of respect for God then I imagine they would wear it at home as well.

I am a respectable Christian woman. If I put on a scarf, am I any more respectable? If I take it off again, do I take off my respectability with it? Islam appears to think so.

Is there nothing you do or don't do out of respect for your God?

The answer is no, I do not take off my respectability with my scarf, or my coat, or my gloves, or anything else. I am who I am, regardless of what I wear, because who I am is about me, not about my clothes.

I think what we wear says something about who we are as people.

I think you are forgetting that in Moslem countries even the prostitutes wear Islamic dress. Dress is cultural, it is not about morality.

Then I ask, what is wrong with culture norms? If and when they are being forced on someone. I'm sure we both agree those are wrong so outside of that situation (which is happening of course), what is wrong with following a custom of covering one's body if you feel the custom has merit?

 

[Catherineanne]

I haven't heard anyone say they wear it at home when they are alone, with just small children or their husband. Have you? Then again, if one wears it out of respect for God then I imagine they would wear it at home as well.

'When it is at home' is a saying. It is not literal.

Is there nothing you do or don't do out of respect for your God?

Certainly. What I do not do is judge others who do not do the same as having a lower moral value than me. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I think what we wear says something about who we are as people.

Who says otherwise?

Then I ask, what is wrong with culture norms? If and when they are being forced on someone. I'm sure we both agree those are wrong so outside of that situation (which is happening of course), what is wrong with following a custom of covering one's body if you feel the custom has merit?

There is nothing wrong with culture norms. Did you not read my comment about these excessive coverings not being cultural to the women who are adopting them? Therefore these are very often political, not cultural.

A Saudi woman in the UK wearing a niqab is following her culture. A Bangladeshi woman is not. Bangladeshi culture is shalwar kameez plus neckscarf, sometimes over the head, sometimes not. Both are traditional, both are cultural, both are Moslem. But the increasingly presented Islamic view is that the latter is not Islamic enough, or modest enough, or whatever. That is the problem. Morality is being seen as invested in the clothing, regardless of the actual morality of the person wearing them.

 

[Supreme]

Some feel that God does care about our modesty and covering one's head can be modest and also shows respect for the divine.

How does covering the head show respect? Is God offended at the sight of hair or something?

Just as you wouldn't wear certain things to church they choose to wear a hijab for worship.

Ah, that's where you're wrong you see, I would wear anything to church. I can't really see how what bits of fabric you choose or choose not to wear is in any way worship. Certainly, it's a strange concept. Although I wouldn't put worship in a box and say what is and what isn't worship, I just don't believe attire is something God looks up or down on. Surely there's more to life, and one's relationship with God, than clothes?

 

[Catherineanne]

Ah, that's where you're wrong you see, I would wear anything to church. I can't really see how what bits of fabric you choose or choose not to wear is in any way worship. Certainly, it's a strange concept. Although I wouldn't put worship in a box and say what is and what isn't worship, I just don't believe attire is something God looks up or down on. Surely there's more to life, and one's relationship with God, than clothes?

I agree. Get there however you can, wear what you like, but go.

That is all that matters in relation to church.

 

[Qman]

With the current ban of the niqab(burkha) in France and possibly expanded into the rest of Europe, what is your opinion concerning the Hijab? Do you see it as a sign of opression?

Any clothing can be oppressive.

I do not enjoy wearing a suit to an interview, but it is expected in most cases. Oppressive.

However I see people voluntarily wearing suits in their free time. Not Oppressive.

Same applies to Hijab/Niqab/Anything. If forced by threat of negative consequences then it is oppressive. If worn by choice, then it is not.

Really it is simple as that. External perception will not change it, though it can add a layer of oppression if they act on their perceptions attempting to 'Liberate' those who they feel are oppressed.

 

[JJWhite]

Thought I'd drop in to check on how things were here...

I'd like to share a post one of my friends wrote for a Niqabi blog we have... I think this particular piece was written with a Muslim audience in mind, but I still thought it was worth sharing.

btw.. eman = faith

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Your eman is low? <gasp> But you wear niqab!

Umm&#8230;excuse me for my bluntness but&#8230;.SO WHAT!

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Niqab is a cloth that can be bought and sold&#8211;mine was about $5 to be precise.

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I have my bad days, just as you do.

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I have my eman rush days&#8211;my eman low days&#8211;my confused days&#8211;my what-the-heck-am-I-doing-days&#8230;and the cloth on my face&#8230;does NOT make a difference when it comes to that.

​

Niqab, just as hijab, is a sign of faith that ideally eminates from within. But just like hijab&#8230;niqab is just a cloth.

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I should not be judged for the cloth that is across my face, rather for my character and the way I carry myself with others. It should not be assumed that all that I do is gold, because just like the poor gold-diggers in the early Americas, you&#8217;ll be fooled with colored rock. Take from me that which is good, and be prepared for me to fall flat on my face&#8230;and make sure to be there to help me up and tend to my scraped knees.

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Sometimes I need a shoulder to cry on.

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Sometimes I need a reminder to help guide me down the right path.

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and Sometimes&#8230;I make mistakes that I wish I never made.

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Yes I wear niqab&#8230;but guess what: When you cut me, I bleed&#8230;too.


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P.S. I miss my CF friends.



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[razeontherock]

There is no culture behind it.

They interpret the divine text in a way such that they believe they have to cover their faces.

You do realize, that this is CULTURE?

 

[razeontherock]

Maybe that is a good thing. We are a global society now and will have to come up with a agreed upon world wide dress and moral code eventually.So we need to have this clashing of views to give birth to the new world order.

Who's side are you on, man?

 

[Livindesert]

Who's side are you on, man?

The world is getting smaller and smaller with the internet and globalization eventually the world will become like one country. To me this is inevitabile like the tides but if we plan for it can be a good experience.

 

[razeontherock]

The Burqa is a sign, to me at least, that Islam values certain things more at face value. In my view, true expression and true worship happens within- which is why, when I hear some Muslims say that they wear the hijab for worship, I find it very silly indeed. Should God really care that much about what we wear? Does God care about our clothes to the extent He's recognize it as an act of worship. It seems a rather shallow concept of God.

The same can be said of vestments and all Priestly garb. One aspect of tolerance is applying the same standard equally.

 

[razeontherock]

The world is getting smaller and smaller with the internet and globalization eventually the world will become like one country. To me this is inevitabile like the tides but if we plan for it can be a good experience.

My Bible tells me otherwise! It will appear good, maybe for as long as 3 1/2 years even. No way on G-d's green earth am I going along with it even then, if I'm unfortunate enough as to be around ...

 

[razeontherock]

Niqab, just as hijab, is a sign of faith that ideally eminates from within. But just like hijab…niqab is just a cloth.

​

I should not be judged for the cloth that is across my face, rather for my character and the way I carry myself with others. It should not be assumed that all that I do is gold, because just like the poor gold-diggers in the early Americas, you’ll be fooled with colored rock. Take from me that which is good, and be prepared for me to fall flat on my face…and make sure to be there to help me up and tend to my scraped knees.

​

Sometimes I need a shoulder to cry on.

​

Sometimes I need a reminder to help guide me down the right path.

​

and Sometimes…I make mistakes that I wish I never made.

​

Yes I wear niqab…but guess what: When you cut me, I bleed…too.​

JJ, Bless you for injecting what this forum is SUPPOSED to be all about! We needed that, or at least I did.

And as Dena said, our country is worse for having "that which is good taken from us." Dress has become less moral by a long way, and it has impacted our society as a whole no matter how valiantly some may have been able to sometimes ignore it. That doesn't mean the female of our species should be subjected to a different standard, but we here in the States could do w/ a bit of reflection rather than mere intolerance of a culture so different from our own.​

 

[yamin]

Should God really care that much about what we wear? Does God care about our clothes to the extent He's recognize it as an act of worship. It seems a rather shallow concept of God.

God had specific requirments on how Levite priests were suppose to dress, so how can you call God shallow? There was wisdom behind why certain vestments were used.

In regards to Islam though, I dont agree with the burqa but it is not our choice to dictate who wears the burqa. Just let Muslims be who have the right to practice their faith. At least that is how I feel.

 

[Supreme]

The same can be said of vestments and all Priestly garb. One aspect of tolerance is applying the same standard equally.

Agreed. Which is why I see preistly garbs just as unnecesary. I go to a church where the pastor wears just a plain shirt and jeans usually. The pastor need not differentiate himself from other worshippers.

God had specific requirments on how Levite priests were suppose to dress, so how can you call God shallow? There was wisdom behind why certain vestments were used.

I'm not calling God shallow- I'm calling the inane concept of a God that gives a stuff about clothes shallow.

 

[Livindesert]

My Bible tells me otherwise! It will appear good, maybe for as long as 3 1/2 years even. No way on G-d's green earth am I going along with it even then, if I'm unfortunate enough as to be around ...

I can't wait for it myself, all humanity working as one

 

[Delphiki]

I can't wait for it myself, all humanity working as one

It's too bad that those with the power to make that the last step won't actually do it because they prefer to be worshipped for all eternity by the comparatively infinitesimally small beings they created. It'd be pretty disappointing if it were all true.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

With the current ban of the niqab(burkha) in France and possibly expanded into the rest of Europe, what is your opinion concerning the Hijab? Do you see it as a sign of opression?

I see it as symbolic of a gender ideology I consider problematic, to say the least.

That does not change the fact that I acknowledge the freedom of people to wear it, for religious reasons or otherwise. As long as we can make sure that people aren't forced to wear it, by peer pressure or otherwise, it's really none of our business, especially if we want to uphold the very values we've been so keen to defend against politicized Islamist extremism.

 

[durangodawood]

.....As long as we can make sure that people aren't forced to wear it, by peer pressure or otherwise.....

How could we possibly ensure that?
.

 

[durangodawood]

...I'm not calling God shallow- I'm calling the inane concept of a God that gives a stuff about clothes shallow.

Generally, clothes are symbolic of our respect for the occasion. So its not really about the clothes themselves, but what we indicate by choosing them.
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