The Hebrew word ET

[Tishri1]

This big picture..... I see Yeshua(Salvation) there and He puts Himself there and in alot of other places as well so nothing could be if it were not for Him being.

 

[yonah_mishael]

This big picture..... I see Yeshua(Salvation) there and He puts Himself there and in alot of other places as well so nothing could be if it were not for Him being.

This is why we're talking about more objective things. Not everything comes down to wishful subjectivity. You're really getting off-topic, since we're talking about the meaning of את and the possibility of it meaning something besides what it's normally taken to mean. Your personal beliefs may be relevant to your faith, but they aren't exactly relevant to this discussion. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Tishri1]

Im taking him at his word and Im looking at the big picture painted by John

its not my own belief but a messianic one that he had been around since before creation, and so has salvation

I think the OP was hinting at that but I will let him say so if that is true

 

[Yitzchak]

Im taking him at his word and Im looking at the big picture painted by John

its not my own belief but a messianic one that he had been around since before creation, and so has salvation

I think the OP was hinting at that but I will let him say so if that is true

I agree. That is what I was hinting at.

One of the key points of disagreement in this whole discussion is centered around matching our "scholarship " with what scripture teaches. Counting the scripture itself and also the tradition of the Jewish people who transmitted that scripture as valid evidence is good scholarship.

The orthodox Jewish Oral and written traditions which say that Hebrew is the original language is in itself very strong evidence.

The Bible teaches that the world was one language until the tower of babel. There was one original language that became many later.

As one poster already pointed out there is meaning to the Hebrew names starting with Adam and Eve. Their names have meaning in the bible story. Eve's name is from the Hebrew word for life because she is the mother of all living.

Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Here is another example of a message hidden in the original Hebrew.


Your Questions Answered By Chuck Missler Meanings Of The Names In Genesis 5 - Chuck Missler - Koinonia House

The Composite List

Now let's put it all together:

Hebrew



English

Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared

Shall come down
Enoch Teaching
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The despairing
Noah Rest, or comfort

Here is a summary of God's plan of redemption, hidden here within a genealogy in Genesis! You will never convince me that a group of Jewish rabbis deliberately "contrived" to hide the "Christian Gospel" right here in a genealogy within their venerated Torah!

Language existed right from the beginning. Adam named all the animals.

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto the man to see what he would call them; and whatsoever the man would call every living creature, that was to be the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And the man gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found a help meet for him.

If one believes the biblical record , then Noah spoke the same language as Adam. Also add to that the extremely long life spans of over 900 years and Adam was still around for several generations as was Noah. Noah would have passed away very close to the time of the birth of Abraham. Eber one the the descendents in the genealogy between Noah and Abraham would have lived long enough to know Abraham personally. What is special about Eber is his name. The modern Hebrew word for Hebrew is "ivrit" which is the same root word as Eber.



Jeff Benner ( one of the sites I mentioned ) has taught Hebrew for decades and devoted his entire life to studying archeology and issues related to ancient Hebrew. His qualifications and experience in Ancient Hebrew are excellent.

I could list literally hundreds of seperate websites that support that Aleph came from the pictograph for an ox head and the rest of the Hebrew pictographs.

 

[yonah_mishael]

:: yet another terrible rendition of the Hebrew ::

Look, I'm not here to prove every silly notion wrong. If people want to believe fanciful nonsense, they will. Good luck with all of that, but I'm worn out from this. I think I'll bow out and let someone else deal with this. Have fun.

 

[ContraMundum]

:: yet another terrible rendition of the Hebrew ::

Look, I'm not here to prove every silly notion wrong. If people want to believe fanciful nonsense, they will. Good luck with all of that, but I'm worn out from this. I think I'll bow out and let someone else deal with this. Have fun.

I feel your frustration. I also find it strange that the people who know Hebrew best are the ones saying that the spiritualised and eisegetical assertions being made about the language are wrong, and the ones with the least experience in the language are citing people like Chuck Missler (who doesn't even get the English right when it comes to the Bible!) to validate their already established and preconceived religious convictions about Hebrew.

Not interested anymore.

 

[Lulav]

It's actually a very common teaching among Orthodox Jews that Adam spoke Hebrew -- and even that God created the world through the Hebrew tongue. I don't think that's accurate historically.

Well, 'historically' who would have been there to hear it?

 

[Desert Rose]

This is why we're talking about more objective things. Not everything comes down to wishful subjectivity. You're really getting off-topic, since we're talking about the meaning of את and the possibility of it meaning something besides what it's normally taken to mean. Your personal beliefs may be relevant to your faith, but they aren't exactly relevant to this discussion. Wouldn't you agree?

hey, you lasted to page nine on this - thats, all things considered, is being a saint, in my book!

Thank you dearly for the info provided to the question I asked. I share your notion that grammatical mistakes, slang etc being a norm is no good. "Wrong is the new right"as my father describes the situation, and its sad. I (intensely blushing) do my little part to add to the problem, ok... wholeheartedly confess

 

[Desert Rose]

-Adam spoke Hebrew

- Well, 'historically' who would have been there to hear it?

Because Adam was married to Chava, who was clearly a jewess.I dont know anybody by name Chava who is not a Jewess.
That said, if he was allowed to speak ,well,on occasion, i am sure, it was not all that often..

 

[Heber]

Because Adam was married to Chava, who was clearly a jewess.I dont know anybody by name Chava who is not a Jewess.
That said, if he was allowed to speak ,well,on occasion, i am sure, it was not all that often..

Mmmmm - and there's me thinking that G_d's call came to Abram. Did I miss an auto-update to history somewhere.

 

[Desert Rose]

Mmmmm - and there's me thinking that G_d's call came to Abram. Did I miss an auto-update to history somewhere.

Of course, my dear brother, you are right. I was goofying around.

Actually- i am serious as a heart attack now- it was somewhat satirical, poking fun at wannabe scientists and their, to put it mildly,"interesting" ideas. You ,I , CM, Yonah and everybody here who knows how academia works, is aware of whole sausagemaking process involved in brining a scientific idea to life. Be it applied sciences, pharmaceutical research, ingeneering, or liquistics, religion , history, etc.

For the grant money(fame,publications in mags, tenure,lab, etc) many scientists with pretty elastic notion of moral values would gladly do ANYTHING, including "proving" beyond doubt that the Earth is flat.
Fringe ideas would never be mainstream, for- lets not lose my faith in humanity here- there are more honest scientists that love their job then, khm...., the "other" kind.


Same here on forums. People use shady science to prove what they want. You cant rationalize with them , because, as the song goes,"what a man believes he sees" . Why Yonah bailed out. He wouldnt operate on that level, neither would you or Contra.

 

[Heber]

Of course, my dear brother, you are right. I was goofying around.

Actually- i am serious as a heart attack now- it was somewhat satirical, poking fun at wannabe scientists and their, to put it mildly,"interesting" ideas. You ,I , CM, Yonah and everybody here who knows how academia works, is aware of whole sausagemaking process involved in brining a scientific idea to life. Be it applied sciences, pharmaceutical research, ingeneering, or liquistics, religion , history, etc.

For the grant money(fame,publications in mags, tenure,lab, etc) many scientists with pretty elastic notion of moral values would gladly do ANYTHING, including "proving" beyond doubt that the Earth is flat.
Fringe ideas would never be mainstream, for- lets not lose my faith in humanity here- there are more honest scientists that love their job then, khm...., the "other" kind.


Same here on forums. People use shady science to prove what they want. You cant rationalize with them , because, as the song goes,"what a man believes he sees" . Why Yonah bailed out. He wouldnt operate on that level, neither would you or Contra.

Cor, I was really worried that Bill Gates had died and that auto updates were now going to be applied to everything, like in Windows, and I'd missed it.

The interesting thing is that those of us who are academics / scholars / ordained leaders and equivalents have particular subjects so, between us, we can focus on many different areas, hopefully bringing clarity to a variety of issues on here. I'm not a linguist as YM is so, on the whole, I am more than happy to leave that to him and CM and so on.

 

[Lulav]

Moses lived with his father-in-law for 40 years in Midian before he came back to Egypt to take the people out. Surely he learned to read and write in their language! It's entirely possible that Hebrew developed as an offshoot of the Midianite language, though we cannot be sure - since we have no sure knowledge of their language. It is said that Midian was established by the sons of Abraham and Keturah. If that's the case, why wouldn't they have spoken the language of Abraham?

Are you saying then that Moses married an Ishmaelite?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Are you saying then that Moses married an Ishmaelite?

I'm not really sure about that. I'd need to look into a bit more.

 

[Desert Rose]

Cor, I was really worried that Bill Gates had died and that auto updates were now going to be applied to everything, like in Windows, and I'd missed it.

The interesting thing is that those of us who are academics / scholars / ordained leaders and equivalents have particular subjects so, between us, we can focus on many different areas, hopefully bringing clarity to a variety of issues on here. I'm not a linguist as YM is so, on the whole, I am more than happy to leave that to him and CM and so on.

Amen,amen. You boys totally rock, each in your own area. I know academia just from student standpoint.
I cant discuss hebrew,english or any linguistics with any kind of authority.

I see how discussions about the meaning of letters usually deteriorate.. Being an air head i am, it always reminds me of a (pretty much cult) movie, Eskimo Limon,comedy, there is a moment when Yudale (goofball walking trouble young soldier) comes to caban( army doctor, psychiatrist) asking for Gimel - that letter is used to mean permission to take a break from service for few days for health reasons. Doctor sees he is trying to play hooky and says, soldier, you dont need gimel, you need ....( another letter of Hebrew alfabet,zayin)
"מותק, אתה לא צריך גימל, אתה צריך זין"

Where i am getting with this silliness- there are many meanings, so all those fights about it,unless somwhat productive and educational in the process, are useless...

 

[Heber]

Amen,amen. You boys totally rock, each in your own area. I know academia just from student standpoint.
I cant discuss hebrew,english or any linguistics with any kind of authority.

I see how discussions about the meaning of letters usually deteriorate.. Being an air head i am, it always reminds me of a (pretty much cult) movie, Eskimo Limon,comedy, there is a moment when Yudale (goofball walking trouble young soldier) comes to caban( army doctor, psychiatrist) asking for Gimel - that letter is used to mean permission to take a break from service for few days for health reasons. Doctor sees he is trying to play hooky and says, soldier, you dont need gimel, you need ....( another letter of Hebrew alfabet,zayin)
"מותק, אתה לא צריך גימל, אתה צריך זין"

Where i am getting with this silliness- there are many meanings, so all those fights about it,unless somwhat productive and educational in the process, are useless...

Ah, but, there is 1 Corinthians 11:19 to contend with - debates are useful!

 

[Desert Rose]

Ah, but, there is 1 Corinthians 11:19 to contend with - debates are useful!

Very much so!

 

[ContraMundum]

.

 

[Heber]

.

Crikey, CM lost for words - that's a first!