The haves are having a good holiday

[Ave Maria]

I've never seen any... where in the world do you live?!?

I've never seen any either but then again, I've never been to a homless shelter. How many times have you been to a homeless shelter?

 

[arnegrim]

Tell you what--I won't make blanket assumptions about how hard (or not) a rich person (or her dad) worked in order to make her big pile of cash, if you won't make the blanket assumption that everyone living in poverty could really make ends meet if he'd just sacrifice a little more and "move the ends." You've apparently been able to find some financial stability through work and sacrifice, and I'm very happy for you. Just know that not every situation is like your own, and that many people face obstacles that all the commitment and sacrifice in the world can't overcome.

You are correct... not every rich person worked hard... but the majority did.
However, I never suggested that everyone living in poverty could just 'move the ends' and make them meet... I did suggest that 'moving the ends' would make the gap much smaller.

What obstacles do people face that can't be overcome?

 

[arnegrim]

I've never seen any either but then again, I've never been to a homless shelter. How many times have you been to a homeless shelter?

So far... never... although my daily commute used to take me past a large one. Even so... I don't recall even hearing about 'Christians' at homeless shelters preaching how they are getting what they deserved... I'm not saying it hasn't ever happened... there's always a bad apple on the tree... but the implication that is is a common occurrence...

 

[eldermike]

The true "Haves" at Christmas are those that "Have" Jesus Christ, as Lord and Savior.

Amen

 

[Aduro Amnis]

After all of you have said in post and PM's, all I can say is this Christmas, try and spend some time with the misfortunate, maybe work in a kitchen, donate some gifts to homeless children, or simply in your way into Wal-Mart donate some money to the Salvation Army .

 

[Scally Cap]

What obstacles do people face that can't be overcome?

Try being a black woman with no car living in the projects of Oklahoma City, in a neighborhood buses don't stop in, miles away from the nearest employer, not able to pay for transportation to a job or an active phone line to let potential employers respond to interview requests. Or a disabled war vet whose mental problems aren't being touched by the VA and whose benefits won't cover rent AND medical care AND therapy.

It was an overstatement to say some obstacles can't be overcome; it would have been more accurate to say some obstacles are extraordinarily difficult to overcome. We could both come up with anecdotal evidence for both sides. I'm only trying to make the point that life is often much too complex for a simple "work and sacrifice" panacaea.

 

[SuzQ]

The true "Haves" at Christmas are those that "Have" Jesus Christ, as Lord and Savior.

Christmas Materialism is the way of the world, not the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

Preach it, brother Gunny!

 

[InspiredHome]

In regards to the rich in the OP's article, I'm reminded of the parable of the talents:

Matthew 25:14-30

14“Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15To one he gave five talents[a] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.


19“After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’

21“His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!’

22“The man with the two talents also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.’

23“His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!’

24“Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’

26“His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28“ ‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’



It's not how much we have that's important, but what we do with it. I would also love to see more people give back to their communities through donations and service, not just during the holidays, but every day of the year. One life touches another. (Think Pay It Forward)

 

[Risen Tree]

Just because the poor in the USA may be considered rich compared to some International nations, it still does not make it right that people have to suffer.

Paradoxically, our poor are indeed poor, due to the absurdly high cost of living in America.

 

[utdbear]

The paradox of the American economy(as noted by a local economist) is that we have poor people who are fat because of overeating. I thought that to be very interesting.

 

[arnegrim]

It was an overstatement to say some obstacles can't be overcome; it would have been more accurate to say some obstacles are extraordinarily difficult to overcome. We could both come up with anecdotal evidence for both sides. I'm only trying to make the point that life is often much too complex for a simple "work and sacrifice" panacaea.

Then we are in agreement.

 

[-Truth-]

The reality is.

Whatever “social class” you grew up in will be the “social class” you will remain in. Every so often you hear of a case here or there that does “get out” but for the majority this isn’t the case.

When you understand the system of capitalism you then understand that even if everyone was motivated, educated, and skilled we will still have the whole spectrum of “social classes”. In this system you need all of the “social classes” in order to function.

When it comes to “distribution of wealth” in the system. We place value on people, jobs, and their background. Being the system needs balance and we have more people in the “upper class” today, so by default we also need more in the “lower class” in order to balance. There is only so much money circulating throughout the economy to go around. The only real way to put more money in the economy is through “natural resources” and how much value we decide to place on them.

We also tend to place blame on every class under our own for being the “lesser class” to distance ourselves from them.

 

[arnegrim]

I disagree that we don't break out of social classes...

 

[-Truth-]

I disagree that we don't break out of social classes...

I am not asking you to agree. I am just explaining what the reality really is. Take a social science class.

 

[arnegrim]

I am not asking you to agree. I am just explaining what the reality really is. Take a social science class.

It's that kind of thinking that keeps people in their 'social class'... after all... to do other is to be different. Not to mention that its a good excuse if things get tough... 'well... my family has always been middle-class'...

 

[Arnold_Philips]

I think the ability to move up a class is largely an American illusion. Many Americans seem to have the idea that, despite however things are now, they have a good chance at being rich in the future. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, though it can have its drawbacks. Can any non-USAians verify this?

 

[arnegrim]

I think most Americans think they have no chance to move up in social class... and that is the biggest reason they don't.

 

[Ave Maria]

Paradoxically, our poor are indeed poor, due to the absurdly high cost of living in America.

Yeah, it's quite sad. I only wish there was more that could be done.

 

[rainy]

Hello!
It is sad about the social class thing. You can bright side when we go up yonder it does not matter social class just we did all we could do for him.
Grant you I do not have money for a 50,000 dollar toy, but on the same note
I have a roof over my head and god has provided me with a great family and neccessary things to get by,and I am in a country that give me freedom to worship God which there are countries where you can not do that. Money is just paper,sad it does pay for food and cloths and neccessities. It is sad that someone who has the money to spend on a 50k toy does not decide to give it to someone who had a hard time or down on his or her luck. One like that must be hard harded and need help finding there way.The are poor where it really counts. That is sad. But social class does not grant actual class, just papper money. I have met so called poor people with more class and riches then people with money or so called class.
Just a thought, not to offend.
Merry Christmas.
Hugs, your new friend Rainy

 

[RobWW]

All I have to say to that is .

-Rob