The Harbinger

[Hoshiyya]

OK, but let's say he was sane: I wouldn't go to a mosque or church anyway, no matter how polite the padre or imam is. Satan can whisper in a sweet voice, if he wants, does that make his message good?

If however Satan reveals himself and his insanity to you - good! - you should thank him for acting in such an unattractive way. Then we don't fall into his traps. That pastor was doing the will of God, by driving you away from false doctrine through his impolite actions/words. Send him a thank-you letter, I say.

 

[Tishri1]

Im just confused now... messianic teaching? or messianic-judaism teaching ?or judaism teaching.? Is not a messianic one who believes in Yeshua and recognizes him as the Messiah?

As for the lord Yeshua being the word of God and the word of God being the law and the promise of life...
Is that not basic gospel?

I know what you mean it shouldn't be that way at all but the differences in Teaching cant be drastically opposed just from denomination to denomination

It was that way too in Yeshua's day but for some reason there was the ability to come together anyway as we see with the temple services....the Halacha might seem different sect to sect but they all participated in the Temple worship and festivals together at the temple no problem....Seems to me if these differences were going to be a huge problem between people groups we would have seen more of it back then when religious life was more encompassing than we even see today.

Curious
And sad....

 

[Hoshiyya]

...

 

[Hoshiyya]

It was that way too in Yeshua's day but for some reason there was the ability to come together anyway as we see with the temple services....the Halacha might seem different sect to sect but they all participated in the Temple worship and festivals together at the temple no problem....

"the Halacha might seem different sect to sect but they all participated in the Temple worship and festivals together at the temple no problem"

What you say is not 100% historically accurate, although as a generalization there is some truth to it. There was in the past HUGE conflict between Sadducees and Pharisees, and since the Pharisees had gigantic popular support, the heretical Sadducees were FORCED to conform to the popular Pharisee religion.

Quote:
When a Sadducean high-priest, on the Feast of Tabernacles, poured out the water on the ground instead of into the silver funnel of the altar, Maccabean king though he was, he scarce escaped with his life, and ever afterwards the shout resounded from all parts of the Temple, "Hold up thy hand," as the priest yearly performed this part of the service. The Sadducees held, that on the Day of Atonement the high-priest should light the incense before he actually entered the Most Holy Place. As this was contrary to the views of the Pharisees, they took care to bind him by an oath to observe their ritual customs before allowing him to officiate at all. It was in vain that the Sadducees argued, that the daily sacrifices should not be defrayed from the public treasury, but from special contributions. They had to submit, and besides to join in the kind of half-holiday which the jubilant majority inscribed on their calendar to perpetuate the memory of the decision. The Pharisees held, that the time between Easter [Passover] and Pentecost should be counted from the second day of the feast; the Sadducees insisted that it should commence with the literal "Sabbath" after the festive day. But despite argument, the Sadducees had to join when the solemn procession went on the afternoon of the feast to cut down the "first sheaf," and to reckon Pentecost as did their opponents. (p. 220, Sketches of Jewish Social Life)


In the past, the vast majority of the Jews were united in the Pharisaic, Orthodox religion, and the Jews still have a lot of unity. The ones truly lacking unity are the modern Messianics and to a lesser extent the Protestants.

 

[rick357]

in the past, the vast majority of the Jews were united in the Pharisaic, Orthodox religion, and the Jews still have a lot of unity. The ones truly lacking unity are the modern Messianics and to a lesser extent the Protestants.

As to the unity of messianics I would be out of my depth but protestants I know and trust me they are not united...there is not agreement from church to church much less denomination to denomination
Though only hardcore pharisaic Judaism made it through after 70 ad to become rabbinic still during temple period there were many sects with large followings operating in unity of temple worship including the way...remember history is told through the eye of the victor
Maybe you could define what you mean by unity and that would make your point more clear.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

OK, but let's say he was sane: I wouldn't go to a mosque or church anyway, no matter how polite the padre or imam is. Satan can whisper in a sweet voice, if he wants, does that make his message good?

If however Satan reveals himself and his insanity to you - good! - you should thank him for acting in such an unattractive way. Then we don't fall into his traps. That pastor was doing the will of God, by driving you away from false doctrine through his impolite actions/words. Send him a thank-you letter, I say.

That's about right.

But I was still a Christian Pentecostal then, just like my mother.

The reason I had gone there was that he had the spirit pouring and people drunk everywhere. I had chased being slain in the spirit for so long.{ His sermon was ironically right} My mother was this huge prophet, and me and my sister would go to many churches ministering and sometime I would teach{what I used to believe}, we would go to prisons all over Texas.

The thing was this, When my mother walked into churches, people would fall drunk and slain in the spirit, and I mean entire congregations, and I was always left standing. My Mother was flabbergasted about this, because where ever she went, she left drunk people on the floor, and it would never, ever come to me.

Here was this great pouring out of the spirit, and it came through my own mother in many churches, and I was left standing.

Until that day.

When I walked out of that church, I reached to shake the hand of the preacher after he had preached against me, and that's when it hit me.

That was the day that I stopped believing or searching for that drunkenness.

It was so hard to stand, so drunk.

I stopped being a Pentecostal that day, I stopped speaking in tongues that day.

 

[Hoshiyya]

If you were pentecostal at the time, what was he preaching against?
my impression was the preacher knew you were Messianic.

 

[Hoshiyya]

As to the unity of messianics I would be out of my depth but protestants I know and trust me they are not united...there is not agreement from church to church much less denomination to denomination
Though only hardcore pharisaic Judaism made it through after 70 ad to become rabbinic still during temple period there were many sects with large followings operating in unity of temple worship including the way...remember history is told through the eye of the victor
Maybe you could define what you mean by unity and that would make your point more clear.

Jews may not all be organizationally united, nor Protestants, but in practice I see them as largely united in purpose and lifestyle and goals, and are generally more able than Messianics to unite organizationally when needed. But of course, the Catholics are a step more united than the Protestants. There is, as a generalization, hardly any dissension on any point of note in Catholicism, as far as I can see from my outsider-perspective. That unity (both in spirit and in organization) is enviable.

 

[rick357]

Jews may not all be organizationally united, nor Protestants, but in practice I see them as largely united in purpose and lifestyle and goals, and are generally more able than Messianics to unite organizationally when needed. But of course, the Catholics are a step more united than the Protestants. There is, as a generalization, hardly any dissension on any point of note in Catholicism, as far as I can see from my outsider-perspective. That unity (both in spirit and in organization) is enviable.

Unity of brethren is important but if not coming from a unity with Yeshua and YHWH then it can only be compromise not unity...and if I see my brother offend and say nothing because I "love" him then I make myself a murderer.

 

[rick357]

If you were pentecostal at the time, what was he preaching against?
my impression was the preacher knew you were Messianic.

They clapped and offended his resurrection life teaching...sadly many such wont even teach the cross as they consider it a defeat. Of course I am assuming by my experiance

 

[HannibalFlavius]

If you were pentecostal at the time, what was he preaching against?
my impression was the preacher knew you were Messianic.

He knew I was searching and going to church no matter where, I was so hungry, so thirsty, and I also wanted that slain in the spirit thing.

I was a part of a teen ministry elsewhere, and I had met a member there, and I was telling him of the feasts, and I was on fire to learn them.

It was a guy 35 maybe, and he must have told his pastor that I had said something of the feast of Tabernacles, I was all about that feast in the beginning.

That's why he did the sermon, it was against God's laws and worship system.

But that always happened to me, everywhere I go, people stand and prophesy.


It got a bit creepy after a while, when I was still ministering with my Mom, people always prophesying to me, I don't go to church anymore, haven't for years.

 

[Tishri1]

Unity of brethren is important but if not coming from a unity with Yeshua and YHWH then it can only be compromise not unity...and if I see my brother offend and say nothing because I "love" him then I make myself a murderer.

I really enjoy listening to your message because you don't silence your audience or turn a deaf ear when they reply with their concerns
I agree and think because you pay attention to how its received in them, most will not tune you out but will inquire more about what you have to say

 

[rick357]

I really enjoy listening to your message because you don't silence your audience or turn a deaf ear when they reply with their concerns
I agree and think because you pay attention to how its received in them, most will not tune you out but will inquire more about what you have to say

Ty and that was very auditive

 

[Tishri1]

Ty and that was very auditive

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I really enjoy listening to your message because you don't silence your audience or turn a deaf ear when they reply with their concerns
I agree and think because you pay attention to how its received in them, most will not tune you out but will inquire more about what you have to say

Don't let him fool you, he is an angel sent in our midst to test us.

He doesn't fool me for a sec.

 

[Tishri1]

Lol hopefully we will pass the test right!

 

[rick357]

Very funny...sure my wife of 23 years could give a reassuring that I am not...I just love to be.tested it drives me to the.scripture to make my faith sure...did I assume something...did I proof text...did I try to see what I believe instead of letting scripture tell me.what to believe...everything is gladly a loss to gain him.
Ive seen how deep death in me can go and that even at that my master ransomed with his own life that life could be offered to me...at the day when his countenance looks at me I pray I will not see in his eye you could have done more been more known me more...even so come quickly amen

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Yeah right. that's what all the angels say, '' O, SEE, I even have a wife.''

See my signature?

We all have a wife, listen Angel, if you are going to try a cheap shot like that, try and be more convincing, we have heard all those stories from other angels, trying to act like your one of us or something.

Got my good eye on you.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

How do you really know if you do meet an angel?

WE are told that they live among us and appear to us.


There is always a test.

 

[rick357]

How do you really know if you do meet an angel?

WE are told that they live among us and appear to us.

There is always a test.

obviously there is the scripture that says sometimes we entertain them unaware...but lot seemed to recognize the two that came to sodom and Jacob seemed to know he was wrestling with one...so I have no good conclusion guess I have to treat everyone like one