The happy conclusions of the present gun debate.

[Armoured]

If they have been adjudicated mentally ill or have been committed to a mental institution.

Harsh. Well, there go half the oathkeepers with any history of active service, I guess.

 

[crjmurray]

I'd like to know how many 'delay' status transactions are still caught in the black hole of 'delay' status, long after the buyer took possession of the gun. And does 'delay' status, if not changed to 'proceed' allow the FBI to come and get the gun anytime, even years later?

More than you'd care to realize. I've had NICS call back with a denial days after we were legally allowed to turn the weapon over to the customer. I've had them call back five minutes after a proceed to say "Sorry, that should have been a denial. Think you can get the gun back?" There's definitely a problem at that level of the background check system.

 

[Aldebaran]

Harsh. Well, there go half the oathkeepers with any history of active service, I guess.

And a great number of our military veterans, along with anyone on Social Security that needs someone to manage their financial affairs for them. The definition of what mental illness is will probably be expanded even further.

 

[Armoured]

More than you'd care to realize. I've had NICS call back with a denial days after we were legally allowed to turn the weapon over to the customer. I've had them call back five minutes after a proceed to say "Sorry, that should have been a denial. Think you can get the gun back?" There's definitely a problem at that level of the background check system.

Wow. Awkwaaaard.

 

[Armoured]

And a great number of our military veterans, along with anyone on Social Security that needs someone to manage their financial affairs for them. The definition of what mental illness is will probably be expanded even further.

If someone is incompetent enough to need their affairs managed for them, that sounds fair enough. Any vet with a mental illness? Ouch. Well that's... well, pretty much everyone in the military I know. Including myself. Which is fun, as a gun owner.

 

[JGG]

All 3.

Children are not allowed to purchase until 18 for long guns, 21 for handguns.

Mentally ill are prohibited from purchase.

Anyone with a felony on his record is prohibited from purchase.

Yet, they manage to do so regardless.

 

[JGG]

That's the job of parents with kids at home, and the kids teachers as well. That's their best chance before the legal system takes over.

Okay, let's say that's true. Why do your parents and teachers seem to do worse at "this" than Canadian parents and teachers?

 

[JGG]

Children and criminals. The background check should apply to peoples mental health records. I've said that for years. Ive also said that the NICS should be REQUIRED to give us a proceed instead of us just handing over the firearm without confirmation. Just don't make it sound like FFLs are wantonly selling firearms to Tiny Tim and Jimmy "The Known Serial Rapist With the Strength of Ten Men" Johnson.

Okay, but don't tell me that you're a nation of personal responsibility when kids, the mentally ill, and criminals routinely manage to get their hands on firearms and then use them.

 

[bhsmte]

Yet, they manage to do so regardless.

Are you saying children are buying guns from licensed gun dealers?

 

[bhsmte]

Okay, but don't tell me that you're a nation of personal responsibility when kids, the mentally ill, and criminals routinely manage to get their hands on firearms and then use them.

For the same reason this same element gets their hands on illegal drugs. All you need is money and a desire to obtain the same.

 

[crjmurray]

Okay, but don't tell me that you're a nation of personal responsibility when kids, the mentally ill, and criminals routinely manage to get their hands on firearms and then use them.

And don't tell me that dealers sell guns directly to children.

 

[JGG]

Are you saying children are buying guns from licensed gun dealers?

No, but they're certainly getting their hands on them.

 

[Haasrecht]

This thread is a perfect example of the problem with forum conversations where people are trying to lead someone else down a particular rabbit trail in order to 'corner' them. It is just talking past each other post after post after post.

 

[bhsmte]

No, but they're certainly getting their hands on them.

Sure and like I said, all they need is money, to buy a gun, drugs or virtually anything from illegal channels.

 

[JGG]

Sure and like I said, all they need is money, to buy a gun, drugs or virtually anything from illegal channels.

Not even that. As we've seen, they can take them from home. Get it from the closet, or Mom's purse.

 

[bhsmte]

Sure and like I said, all they need is money, to buy a gun, drugs or virtually anything from illegal channels.

The core issue in the US is; the desire to buy a gun, the fact we have more guns then people, which creates an easy illegal market and most importantly, peoples desire to use the gun, on other people.

 

[bhsmte]

Not even that. As we've seen, they can take them from home. Get it from the closet, or Mom's purse.

Yes and parents that leave guns available to children, should be held liable for doing so.

 

[Belk]

I went over some of them to check the facts. I randomly picked out one of the locations (the Westroads mall) listed in one of your examples and found that it was indeed a "gun free zone". http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2007/12/evidence-that-omaha-westroads-mall-was.html

You should do your homework before posting a bunch of "examples".

From your link

404. That’s an error.

The requested URL /search?q=cache:K222c_oHqCMJ:www.omaha.com/index.php%3Fu_page%3D1208%26u_sid%3D2355124+Few+merchants+see+need+to+post+no-weapons+sign&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a was not found on this server. That’s all we know.

So if you could find something credible that it was a gun free zone at the time it would be appeciated.

How abut you explain this one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting

The point is that armed people do not and can not always stop these shootings. That some can and do I will concede but expecting people to be armed and respond correctly without training is not a comprehensive solution.

 

[JGG]

Along the theme of personal responsibility:

Canadians have 22,000 guns per 100,000 people. Americans have 112,000 guns per 100,000 people. Canadians have a firearms death rate of 2.2 per 100,000 people. Americans have a firearms death rate of 10.4 per 100,000 people.

Now, I'm just eyeballing the statistics, but it seems that the more guns you have, the more people are killed by them. So why is the solution to put more guns out there?

 

[Haasrecht]

Along the theme of personal responsibility:

Canadians have 22,000 guns per 100,000 people. Americans have 112,000 guns per 100,000 people. Canadians have a firearms death rate of 2.2 per 100,000 people. Americans have a firearms death rate of 10.4 per 100,000 people.

Now, I'm just eyeballing the statistics, but it seems that the more guns you have, the more people are killed by them. So why is the solution to put more guns out there?

Okay, I am on the gun control side of the issue but seriously? You didn't even attempt to show causation.