the guilty man wanting to separate

[tenerts]

I am at fault. I have been unfaithful to my wife. I have struggled with gambling, alcohol, smoking, and pornography. About 1.5 years ago, I came clean and asked for forgiveness. My wife said she forgave me. We have been in marriage counseling for 2 years now. I am an active member of Alcoholics Anonymous and have completed a 12 step program called Celebrate Recovery which is a Christ center recovery program.

The issue that now remains, is that my wife continues to be verbally abusive...and goes back into anger and unforgiveness whenever anything difficult happens. She often feels rejected by me for not wanting to be physically intimate with her. (we have relations about 2 times per month) I've been working to improve this.... with some very deep issues that have been a hinderance. Let me be clear, I've had victory over porn, alcohol, gambling and smoking for 1.5 years.

The last time she was angry, she said she hated me, and wished that she had never met me. She also said that I was gay. This deeply hurt me. I know that I committed to not return to my addictions. I've made that very clear.

I've been making amends to her. Bringing flowers, wooing her... When I'm wrong, I admit it and then make restitution for my wrong.

This morning, she said that if I go into fear again, that I will have to sleep in my car. I have been struggling with a fear of sexually being able to perform. I fear angering my wife... and hurting her. My fear seems to be self fulfililng and only makes matters worse. I daily surrender this fear...sometimes hourly.

I know through counseling that my addiction to porn has caused a lot of damage. I have also recently confronted an uncle who molested me when I was about 9 years old... My wife knows of my pain in dealing with this.

I'm just not sure what else to do. After two years of counseling and over a year of sobriety, I'm at the end of my rope. I don't want to be the verbal target of my wifes anger anymore.

I'm seriously considering asking for a separation. I would have ended it long ago, if it wasn't for my youngest child (he's 10).

any prayers and / or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I fully admit that I have sinned. I'm just tired of being constantly reminded of it. Lord Jesus please help me.

 

[taku60]

It sounds like she is sexually frustrated, sexual frustration can end a marriage. In my personal opinion I think the whole porn sex issue in church is a grey area that is blown way out of proportion, I agree that viewing porn in isolation and having an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] outside of your wife is selfish since she should be getting satisfaction out of that also but in my opinion the church likes to shame people regarding porn and high labido males, I would say there is a 99% chance you were not actually addicted to porn you simply viewed it and as long as that sexual energy was shared with your wife there is nothing wrong with that in fact she would probably be happy for it. If I were you I would commit to first reading the scriptures relating to sex, what lust really is and what is really a sin and I challenge you to find anywhere in the bible that porn is a sin people may have their opinions of it but to suggest its a sin is a real leap in logic. After that I encourage you to read the bible from cover to cover and buy a 100$ study bible that has the laymans explaination of scripture at the bottem this is especially useful for the old testimate (also be careful with the laymans inturpretation at the bottom though because I have found it can be off sometimes but it helps you understand like 99% of the bible). Its good that you fixed thoes other problems but you need to have MUCH more frequent sexual activity with your wife, normally the roles are reversed in such a senario but never the less sexual neglect is a big no no, people can forgive and tolerate alot of things but sexual neglect is one of thoes things that can break the back of a marraige. Read the song of soloman and get an instructive book on oral sex so you 2 can experement with each other have fun you only have one life to live. Also stop getting advice from who ever you are talking to on the porn issue and read the bible first and in the mean time enjoy your wife, it sounds like she just wants you and is probably just frustrated, sexual frustration can generate alot of anger because she has no release. I have noticed alot of these sex addict classes are a bunch of quacks, as soon as words start to come out of their mouth there credibility is reduced to nothing and thats because sexual addiction does not actually exist except in extremely rare circumstances and even if that were the case you should only be talking to licenced medical professoinal counselors with MD's or very close to their MD, these wanna be's in churchs are just that.

 

[BarelyBreathing]

First of all, congrats all how far you have come and all the addictions you have overcome!

Are the two of you still in counseling? Is it a couples counseling? You may also benefit from individual counseling for some of your personal issues.

Have you spoken to your counselor about these things you have brought up in here?

It sounds like your wife is having trouble healing. There also could be something else going on. Sometimes the spouse is a co-dependent. At this time, you are no longer the same man she was married to a year and half ago. She may be quite resistent to moving forward, because it means that she will also have to change herself and her interactions with you.

Is your wife a Christian? Have the two of you also considered speaking to your pastor?

Don't give up yet! Keep praying and seeking help.

 

[ShainaBrina]

When one partner starts counselling and getting better it can have a negative effect on the marriage as this changes the dynamics in the marriage. This is why it important for both spouses to receive counselling. Your wife must have been impacted by your troubles during your period of addiction. Now that you are in recovery, the process of change that you are going through also impacts her. Please try to have patience for her struggles...1.5yrs is a short time to work through the many issues that must have evolved.

Many women feel betrayed when their husbands turn to porn. She may have deep wounds of rejection. Did you know that withholding sex is considered a form of sexual abuse?

Your wife's behaviour may not be acceptable, but it is coming out of her pain. Part of a husband's role is to 'bring his wife up' in the Lord. Sounds like both of you need the deep kind of healing that only God can give. Are there any healing/deliverance ministries in your area?

Have you guys seen the movie "Fireproof"? Many people have reported being positively impacted by it and the accompanying book "The Love Dare". Perhaps you could try persuing your wife. Finding ways to make her feel loved, without expectation of return in kind... It turn things around in your marriage... With God's help nothing is impossible.

Meanwhile think of this suffering as an opportunity to fellowship in the suffering of Christ. Jesus did not respond to the false accusations and abuses that were hurled on him on the way to the cross. God may be using this situation to kill off the flesh that you may be conformed to the likeness of His son.

May the Lord richly bless you and comfort you. In Jesus Name

Shaina

 

[myanchor]

Brother, I will pray for you. MillionPieces may be able to help your wife deal with what she feels. Stay in the counseling.

Separation is a big step, but if she's stuck in one mode then it may be useful to you both. But draw up a legal contract with all the conditons you both want in it before you do separate.

And the sleep in your car is a bit extreme. Couch, maybe.

 

[tenerts]

Are the two of you still in counseling? Is it a couples counseling? You may also benefit from individual counseling for some of your personal issues.

Have you spoken to your counselor about these things you have brought up in here?

Is your wife a Christian? Have the two of you also considered speaking to your pastor?

Yes, we are both still in counseling, though she refuses to go to our appointment tonight. She said she refuses to bring up sex in front of our counselor and is embarrassed.

We have been in both couples counseling and individual counseling with the same counselor for 2 years. Everything that I brought up has been discussed with the counselor.. even sex.. though my wife get's upset everytime I bring it up to the counselor.

Yes my wife is a christian and we have also met with our pastor several times.

 

[tenerts]

Please try to have patience for her struggles...1.5yrs is a short time to work through the many issues that must have evolved.

Did you know that withholding sex is considered a form of sexual abuse?
Are there any healing/deliverance ministries in your area?

Have you guys seen the movie "Fireproof"? Many people have reported being positively impacted by it and the accompanying book


Shaina

Thank you Shaina.

I do agree that 1.5 years is a short time... I'm trying.. but just want to stop the verbal abuse and control. I cannot allow it anymore.

I do know that withholding sex is a form of sexual abuse. I do not withhold it. Everytime she wants to... I am williing. The last time she felt rejected, I approached her before bed, and said that I'm tired, but would like to give her a full body massage. She immediately got angry and said that I am just offering that as an excuse not to have sex. I told her that I wasn't, that I was trying to be giving.

Her problem with me, is that I rarely approach her for sex. I have made the effort to check in with her everynight. I have even offered to setup regular nights where we schedule sex... (our schedule can be crazy, with teenager's and late nights)but she refuses and says she wants to be pursued.

We have been through a Restoration / Deliverance conference through our church.. two times in the past 2 years.

We watched fireproof, and I was eager to do the study and the Love Dare, but she said the movie was a joke and not realistic and did not want me to do the stupid love dare.


I'm still at the end of my rope.

I do appreciate all of your feedback and prayers.

 

[ShainaBrina]

One of the good things about the Love Dare is that only one partner can do it. Another good book is Getting the Love You Want. Or perhaps "Boundaries in Marriage" by Drs Cloud & Townsend.

 

[BarelyBreathing]

I don't believe that your sexual problems are a form of abuse. It sounds like you have had a lot of problems in the past that you are probably still working on healing from sexually.

Honestly, the fact that your wife doesn't want certain topics brought up in counseling, along with her disinterest in trying marriage restoration things, sounds like she really does not want to work on the marriage. Have you ever asked her point blank what she wants? Have you brought up the verbal abusiveness to the counselor?

 

[taku60]

I don't believe that your sexual problems are a form of abuse. It sounds like you have had a lot of problems in the past that you are probably still working on healing from sexually.

Honestly, the fact that your wife doesn't want certain topics brought up in counseling, along with her disinterest in trying marriage restoration things, sounds like she really does not want to work on the marriage. Have you ever asked her point blank what she wants? Have you brought up the verbal abusiveness to the counselor?

Just because one spouse has issues does not make abuse ok (which is what sexual neglect is) and it does not mean the other spouse should have to put their life on hold. I agree she should be willing to talk about sex down to the last detail, becasue if you dont you can never get to the bottom of an issue and if you do get to the bottom of it and there is still a lack of cooperation then a split may be valid if you get to the bottom of it and one of you still has their heels dug in then a divorce will likelly follow, its not fair to her to have nebulus time lines for how long she has to endure that type of abuse.

Also giving someone a back rub is not the same thing as a sexual release, so that does not count as a substitute, you should maybe offer OS next time.

 

[tenerts]

. Have you ever asked her point blank what she wants? Have you brought up the verbal abusiveness to the counselor?

Yes.. I've asked her point blank. She simply want to be desired and pursued, which I have attempted over an over. Our counselor believes she has issues of rejection from her childhood up until now. She has not been willing to work through these issues fully with the counselor. Even right now she has not talked to her Mom for 6 months because of an unresolved issue.

Regarding the verbal abusiveness, the counselor is aware and has us role play and put ourselves in "each other shoes". The counselor tends to identify with my wife more than me.. because he's a child of an alcoholic. For the most part he does a good job and has helped me tremendously work through my molestation as a child... Quite honestly, at times I feel that he doesn't know what to do with my wife. He suggested that she go to a Counseling Group session which his boss leads... But that has blown up because of my wife's anger. She made everyone angry ...

anyways... I'm rambling.

 

[tenerts]

Just because one spouse has issues does not make abuse ok (which is what sexual neglect is) and it does not mean the other spouse should have to put their life on hold. I agree she should be willing to talk about sex down to the last detail, becasue if you dont you can never get to the bottom of an issue and if you do get to the bottom of it and there is still a lack of cooperation then a split may be valid if you get to the bottom of it and one of you still has their heels dug in then a divorce will likelly follow, its not fair to her to have nebulus time lines for how long she has to endure that type of abuse.

Also giving someone a back rub is not the same thing as a sexual release, so that does not count as a substitute, you should maybe offer OS next time.

I take your point about sexual neglect as being abuse. Scripture even directs us not to neglect our spouse except for prayer and fasting. But I really believe you are only seeing this from your perspective. Anytime my wife wants to have sex... and initiates it, I comply and give it back accordingly.

My wife's problem is that I only initiate it twice a month. She has a lot of issues around rejection that we have talked about. I have issues around sex since remembering a molestation that occurred when I was young. I'm trying to work through these things, but I'm hardly there yet.

My wife uses anger, it's her addiction... it's what she resorts to.

I get it that... a back rub is not sex. But let me give you an example of what has ocurred.

Two weeks ago, I offered a full body massage... she said she didn't trust me and that I would probably "use her" like an object.. just like when I looked at porn in the past. (she views porn as sin... I do too). In anger, she told me that next time I need to offer it without any strings attached. I thought... okay.

So.... when I offered her the full body massage again, this time... I said "with no strings attached". She immediately jumped into anger and said that this was just a form of rejection and that if I wanted and desired her... that I would have asked for sex.

Do you see the crazy making in all of this?

I tried to confront her to tell here that she can't have it both ways.... but she wouldn't hear it. She went into anger and told me to just leave.

This is an example of why I'm so hurting.

Do I desire my wife? NO.. I honestly don't right now... I don't like her control and manipulation and anger. I'm hurting.

 

[taku60]

oh yea she sounds like a nut job no offense. I am sorry you are going through that and I dont blame you for wanting to leave. I had an ex that was similar to this if I reached over and touched her breast or put my hand between her legs or asked for a BJ it turned into a melodramatic event and after a year and a half of that it was over. Your body is her body and her body is yours thats all there is to it, so what if there are stings attached, any good massage or tickle fight should always lead to sex anyways. Even if she is not in the mood she should take care of you or vis versa and it should never be a melodramtic event, the one that wants it should just take there clothes off and wash up and say I need you to do X Y or Z and there should be no hessitation.

 

[BarelyBreathing]

She has not been willing to work through these issues fully with the counselor.

Quite honestly, at times I feel that he doesn't know what to do with my wife. He suggested that she go to a Counseling Group session which his boss leads... But that has blown up because of my wife's anger. She made everyone angry ...

anyways... I'm rambling.

Sorry to hear about all of this. It seems as though you have recognized yoru problems and worked towards healing, but she doesn't seem to want to recognize hers and work towards healing. I would say to continue working on your own healing, and just pray-- turn it over to God. Find ways to cope with your wife's verbal abusiveness, even if it means seperating yourself from the situation.

Are you connected with a church? If not, you may want to find a good church family to connect with and become active in.

 

[tenerts]

Find ways to cope with your wife's verbal abusiveness, even if it means seperating yourself from the situation.

Are you connected with a church? If not, you may want to find a good church family to connect with and become active in.

Well.. my old ways of coping with the verbal abuse certainly did not work... Separating myself from the situation, would mean leaving my wife. I'm to that point... but really don't think I have biblical grounds to leave.

I had a dream where I was trapped by an alien. One of those face suckers (if you saw the movie alien). My counselor thinks it was a dream about how trapped I feel with my wife...


Yes, I'm connected with a good church and I'm going to a weekly bible study with my wife, as well as a men's study on my own.

 

[taku60]

Well.. my old ways of coping with the verbal abuse certainly did not work... Separating myself from the situation, would mean leaving my wife. I'm to that point... but really don't think I have biblical grounds to leave.

I had a dream where I was trapped by an alien. One of those face suckers (if you saw the movie alien). My counselor thinks it was a dream about how trapped I feel with my wife...


Yes, I'm connected with a good church and I'm going to a weekly bible study with my wife, as well as a men's study on my own.

All I have to say is be extremely careful with these bible studies and especially with mens groups, usually mens groups are trying to legislate morality and modify behavior through intimidation and they usually have no qualifications what so ever, this is why I was very weary for you in regards to the sex/porn addict thing, sex is a natural human desire and only in very specific very rare instances that should only be determined by a licenced professional do you actually become an "addict" 99% of the time its just healthy male sex drive demonized by prudish females or affemitized males who are generally in the mens groups, I could be wrong maybe you do have a good group and you go out for beers and are manly men and talk about lagitimate issues and not turn "mens group" into a uphamism for lets talk about how bad porn is and who watched it, if in the rare event that a man is REPLACING his wife with porn for no good reason (ie there is no neglect of ANY kind) then it might be a worthy topic but just casual viewing of porn I dont want to sit there and listen to that. you can believe porn is wrong but there is nothing about it in the bible, lust is something much much more than the casual viewing of porn, unless you were robbing your wife of your sex drive the porn should not be a big deal (ie if you are watching it together).

 

[tenerts]

taku60.

Wow.

I can hardly believe that you are on a Christian Forum. That's all I'll say. I'm not going to debate porn with you.

 

[taku60]

taku60.

Wow.

I can hardly believe that you are on a Christian Forum. That's all I'll say. I'm not going to debate porn with you.

Im just saying be careful is all. Also porn is not in the bible, you can be dismissive or you can actually read.

 

[tenerts]

Well, I met with our counselor last night. It certainly helped to get it all out and to talk about it. My wife was angry that I went, without talking everything out with her first. I told her that I had asked her several times to go with me to work this out. She refused and said that her and I and God were enough. I asked her not to make me feel guilty for wanting to work through these issues and to seek outside help.

Our counselor feels that she in fact is the one running and not dealing with the changes that I have made in my life. He said that it's fairly common when an addict begins to truly change and get healthy that the spouse will not know how to handle it... and want to go back to the old ways of dealing with things. For my wife, this is anger and control.

It really helped to think about it this way. It has helped to reduce my frustration with her. Now, I feel that I am ready to try again.

My plan is to establish boundries. She may not like this. She was threatening to leave today. I said okay, but I still need time to think through things. I hope to talk this through with her tonight or tomorrow. I really need prayer through this.

thanks for all of your prayers and for allowing me to share (though I wonder if I shared a bit too much). Ah well... I will trust it to God.

 

[b.hopeful]

Many things aren't directly mentioned by name in the Bible...that's where discernment comes in. Just because you can't find scripture that says "oh..and about porn...it's no good...er,um so sayeth the Lord." doesn't mean that by default porn is a good thing.

And I'm not saying porn is evil. I know quite a few couples that watch it together and love how it spices up their sex lives. I also know that it can make a marriage crumble as well. I just find Taku's "logic" that if it's not directly mentioned in the Bible it's all good to be completely faulty.