The great wine press of the wrath of God

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Revelation 14: NASB

14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. 18Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe.” 19So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God. 20And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses’ bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

The wrath of God is mentioned in the NT as the justice of God meted out to the unrepentant wicked.

In our post-modern society mentioning a wrathful God evokes thoughts of an angry deity who is a monster to mete out punishment taking pleasure in the afflictions of His own creation. But is this the Biblical portrayal of a Just and Loving God who is Righteous and will not let unrighteousness go unpunished?

First let's dispel this "monster God" of post-modernism.

The wrath of God is not a capricious, impulsive or arbitrary outburst of anger as some try to promote and thus God is not wrathful.

The wrath of God is a settled determined response of a Holy God against sin.

As J.I. Packer is quoted:

“God’s wrath in the Bible is never the capricious, self-indulgent, irritable, morally ignoble thing that human anger so often is. It is, instead, a right and necessary reaction to objective moral evil” (Knowing God, 151).

Which Packer is referring to the Apostle Paul to the Romans:

Romans 2: NASB

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

Therefore, God's wrath is just.

As sinners needing Christ as Lord and Savior, God's wrath is to be feared. Feared because all are sinners (Romans 3:23), that we are separated from God needing to be at peace with Him (Romans 5:1) and God promises eternal punishment for those not in Christ (Matthew 25:46).

Therefore, we are to fear God's wrath.

The wrath of God is also consistent in both the OT and NT Scriptures. Some try to separate a God of the OT and a God of the NT. This was the argument put forth by Marcion and his views Marcionism were rejected by the early Church. However, when we examine the Scriptures we see consistency:

Jeremiah 30: NASB
23 Behold, the tempest of the LORD!
Wrath has gone forth,
A sweeping tempest;
It will burst on the head of the wicked.


24The fierce anger of the LORD will not turn back
Until He has performed and until He has accomplished
The intent of His heart;
In the latter days you will understand this.

Nahum 1: NASB
2A jealous and avenging God is the LORD;
The LORD is avenging and wrathful.
The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries,
And He reserves wrath for His enemies.


3The LORD is slow to anger and great in power,
And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished.
In whirlwind and storm is His way,
And clouds are the dust beneath His feet.

Romans 1: NASB
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Revelation 19: NASB
15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Therefore, God's wrath is consistent in the OT and NT.

As we can see laid out above is the Biblical truth on the wrath of God and the consequences. In the next thread we will speak of how "all have sinned" was remedied by God before the foundations of the earth. Concluding with the spoiler:

Romans 5: NASB
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
 

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Since God did not spare those who heard Him speak from the mountain and rebelled,

how much more God will not spare those who refuse to obey His Son Jesus.
Indeed. How great a God we have Who did not spare His own Son to redeem us.

Amazing Grace!
 
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Since God did not spare those who heard Him speak from the mountain and rebelled,

how much more God will not spare those who refuse to obey His Son Jesus.
I think this is a good summary of the OP.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,372
10,615
Georgia
✟913,699.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Rev 14 -- 3 angels messages --> then the 2nd coming event. Those 3 messages are the last messages given to Earth before the END. (What denominations preach Rev 14 and it's "everlasting gospel to preach to every kindred tribe and people" - today??

In Rev 14 we have the "wine press of the wrath of God"
“Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


In Rev 19 at the 2nd coming "the wine press of the wrath of God"

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Since God did not spare those who heard Him speak from the mountain and rebelled,
how much more God will not spare those who refuse to obey His Son Jesus.
I think this is a good summary of the OP.
Yes indeed.........

The Mountain in Matt 21 question

Matthew 21:21
Yet Jesus answering said to them, "amen I am saying to ye,
if ever ye may be having Faith, and no ye may be doubting, not only the of the fig-tree ye shall be doing,
but even-ever to this Mountain ye may saying,
'Be being lifted up! and be being cast! into the Sea', it shall be becoming"
[Hebrews 12:18 Revelation 8:8]

Hebrews 12:18
18 For ye came not near to the Mountain touched and scorched with fire, and to blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19 and a sound of a trumpet, and a Voice of sayings, which those having heard did entreat that a Word might not be added to them, [Revelation 8:8]

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Jericho and the 7 Priests Trumpets


Revelation 8:
6 And the seven Messengers, Those having the seven trumpets, make ready themselves that They should be trumpeting<4537>.
8 And the second Messenger trumpets,
and as a great Mountain to fire burning<2545> was cast into the sea
and became the third of the sea blood.
[Exodus 20:18 Matthew 21:21 Hebrews 12:18]


................................
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am not seeing anything to differ with - did you ask for something or challenge something in your thread? what do you mean "no takers"??
I would think you are not a taker as you agree with the Scriptures presented. Some do not.
 
Upvote 0

Noxot

anarchist personalist
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2007
8,191
2,450
37
dallas, texas
Visit site
✟231,339.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
This description of God's wrath reminds me of when people crucified Jesus. You can't have wine if you don't have grapes. A harvest often discards the useless or compost it while the food is taken and used to benefit humans. Some crops are used to feed the cattle but not humans.

I think the jews consider the number 200 to be symbolic of evil, i think it is associated with fallen angels.

Evil must be destroyed by God or else we will keep suffering from the evil in us, so God's wrath is full of goodness. It is a relief that God would as the worm in jona, devour the little plant that jona was fond of. But most of God's people are cowardly and so tell God not to speak to them and to talk to moses and they will hear Moses.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,372
10,615
Georgia
✟913,699.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
This description of God's wrath reminds me of when people crucified Jesus. You can't have wine if you don't have grapes. A harvest often discards the useless or compost it while the food is taken and used to benefit humans. Some crops are used to feed the cattle but not humans.

I think the jews consider the number 200 to be symbolic of evil, i think it is associated with fallen angels.

Evil must be destroyed by God or else we will keep suffering from the evil in us, so God's wrath is full of goodness. It is a relief that God would as the worm in jona, devour the little plant that jona was fond of. But most of God's people are cowardly and so tell God not to speak to them and to talk to moses and they will hear Moses.

Luke 16
And Jesus said this in a parable -- 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

summerville

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2020
1,190
437
77
Atlanta
✟11,428.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Rev 14 -- 3 angels messages --> then the 2nd coming event. Those 3 messages are the last messages given to Earth before the END. (What denominations preach Rev 14 and it's "everlasting gospel to preach to every kindred tribe and people" - today??

In Rev 14 we have the "wine press of the wrath of God"
“Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


In Rev 19 at the 2nd coming "the wine press of the wrath of God"

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Israel's war with the Romans began during the grape harvest. The mention of the winepress (crushed grapes) is symbolic of blood.

"great winepress of the wrath of God"

Revelation 14:18-20
 
Upvote 0

Noxot

anarchist personalist
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2007
8,191
2,450
37
dallas, texas
Visit site
✟231,339.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Luke 16
And Jesus said this in a parable -- 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

This happens because they don't have the faith of Abraham
so they are referred to spiritual medicine of a lesser kind that can help them if they purified their heart. God knew their heart so knew they would trample what is holy so he threw moses and the prophets under the bus because he knew that something was going to get trampled. The prophets main thing was to tell God's people to return and how to.

Imagine rejecting God but telling him you will listen to his prophet moses. They already rejected God, what makes them think they will hear God through moses? They have no faith, they can't hear. Let the dead bury their dead.

All the prophets were already raised up with Christ, they all came back from the dead and had Christ in them but Still people don't believe. To be alive is to be near God.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,372
10,615
Georgia
✟913,699.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
All the prophets were already raised up with Christ, they all came back from the dead and had Christ in them but Still people don't believe. To be alive is to be near God.

That quote I gave was from Luke 16 which is Christ speaking before the cross... so I don't think the "dead in Christ" had been raised yet.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,372
10,615
Georgia
✟913,699.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Israel's war with the Romans began during the grape harvest. The mention of the winepress (crushed grapes) is symbolic of blood.

"great winepress of the wrath of God"

Revelation 14:18-20

Rev 14:6-12 was almost 2000 years in the future to John and his readers.
Rev 14:18-20 -- was future to John and also is still future to us.

Rev 16 the 7 last plagues not only future to John, but also future to us.
Rev 19 the second coming - not only future to John, but also future to us.
Rev 11,12 - the 1260 years of the dark ages, future to John ... but not still future to us.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Noxot

anarchist personalist
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2007
8,191
2,450
37
dallas, texas
Visit site
✟231,339.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
That quote I gave was from Luke 16 which is Christ speaking before the cross... so I don't think the "dead in Christ" had been raised yet.
I was speaking of spiritual life since Gods work was finished from before the foundation of the world, the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. That is why he said to his Son "i have glorified and will again". God came as a human to again remind us of his eternal salvation which is before time because he is our very life.
 
Upvote 0