The great fossil illusion

[Morat]

What I do not understand the most is how what I think of evolution is affecting the lot of you!

   Actually, what you think and how you act affects the people around you. If, for instance, you ask about a subject that I know something about, and I go out of my way to get you the information you want, and you handwave it away and call my sources liars, I get upset.

   Not necessarily because the subject is dear to me, but because I went out of my way to help you and you lacked the common courtesy to acknowledge my efforts by attempting to understand the material yourself.

You deny that it has consumed you as a god but yet you are so angry because I think it is false.

What's the big deal? <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/scratch.gif" border=0>

&nbsp; Rudeness is upsetting. People here are quite willing to answer your questions. People have tried to answer your questions. Your responses, instead of attempts to understand it, have been accusations (fake pictures) and mere slurs (it's all jargon).

&nbsp;&nbsp; You have wasted our time. It's annoying.

I am a nobody what do you care what I think?

&nbsp; Oh, I see. So unless someone is important to me, I shouldn't care about them whatsoever? Shouldn't attempt to help them out? Shouldn't try to answer questions, converse with, or in any way interact?

&nbsp;&nbsp; Is that what your religion teaches?&nbsp; Sorry, Stormy. I happen to think everyone is important, and treat them as such.

I will continue to read about evolution but I will not fight with any of you over the concept.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd imagine you'll continue to hold hard to the same misconceptions, and irritate a new group of people by refusing to listen to their calm explanations.

&nbsp;&nbsp; Here's a hint, Stormy: I don't care whatsoever what you believe, ultimately. It's rather meaningless to me. However, when someone gets something wrong, I tend to correct it. If they continue to mangle basic concepts, I try to educate them. It's only polite.

&nbsp;&nbsp; The polite response, Stormy, is to attempt to learn them. If you're going to talk about evolution, it's polite to learn what you're talking about. It's also common sense. It's hard to hold a conversation about something you're clueless about.

&nbsp;&nbsp; You don't have to believe it. I don't care if you do or don't. But you can at least understand it. Intellectual knowledge does not equal belief. And since I've gone out of my way to educate you, you should make a good faith effort to learn.

&nbsp;&nbsp; Not airy dismissals and accusations of academic fraud (which is, Stormy, the most career-destroying thing a person can do).

&nbsp; I'm angry not because of your beliefs, but because you've been rather rude towards people's efforts to educate you.

 

[Stormy]

Morat: Please accept my sincere apology for offending you. I do appreciate your attempt to help me understand and accept evolution. I ask that you not be upset with me because I do not find that it has the proof needed to merit the claims that you and others find true. You will learn as I did. Many times when I have poured out my heart trying to lead people to Christ, it has resulted in little more than a waste of my effort. Still, I cannot hold the other person responsible. Instead it was my choice to offer the help and take the chance that it would be declined. Please understand that what you sense as rudeness is actually my show of frustration. I am sorry. I will not be leaving this forum. I hope that we will be able to discuss evolution and other points of interest without all the personal feelings that have recently become involved.

Blader: I plan a trip to the library this weekend to hopefully find some of the books that were suggested. I also have a brother who is in Intelligence in an unrelated scientific field. He cannot talk to me of his work so usually we do not discuss anything other than personal issues. I do not know how he feels about evolution. Still he knows me and understands my strengths and will be a good source for information. Knowing him though... he probably believes we all derived from another planet! LOL

Jerry: I do not need any of the basic classes that you recommend. I am educated and I posses a high IQ. I am extremely strong in logic. If the theory of evolution only contained that which I had previously held within myself to be true, there would have been no problem. However, the gross claims that are made without the proof needed thus have created a totally unacceptable train of logic within my mind concerning the Theory of Evolution. At some point I may find what agrees with what I know and understand to be Truth and still allows the work of nature in God’s plan. This is what I have to do for me. Contrary to what others may think I do not hold to these thoughts so as to irritate others. I appreciate your friendship on the forum. You are the Best!

 

[Jerry Smith]

Jerry: I do not need any of the basic classes that you recommend. I am educated and I posses a high IQ.

Stormy, being educated (generally) and having a high IQ is not the right background, unless that education includes a very strong core curriculum in the basics of biology, chemsitry (and geology and physics as well, really) that are fundamental to understanding the evidence for evolution in the way you hope to. If you have already taken the basics classes mentioned, and you have even a modest IQ, then you are ready to take the more advanced classes that will enable you to get into the technical journals and dig in deep to understand the many different lines of evidence that support evolution and common descent.

 

[Stormy]

Jerry: Do you not understand how much time can be wasted in a classroom? I am capable of learning without an instructor getting into my way. I know this is not the way that works for most.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Stormy, I understand that different folks have different learning styles, and even that the classroom is not the optimal environment for many people to learn.

But for many, it is the only option.

The internet just doesn't contain enough detailed instruction for a person to expect to educate themselves in the basic sciences and math, much less the more advanced sciences. It is a tool of last resort for the in-depth understanding you require. I don't know what else to recommend, apart from classes, but best of luck no matter what choice you settle on.

 

[Stormy]

I have access to books from a university. Man has been considerate in that he has written down his gains in knowledge. This is not the best way for people to learn. But it is for me! I am bored in classrooms. Most people only further their education so that they can obtain a marketable degree. I have no use for such.

Don't be so quick to put down the Internet. It is alive with new and revised understandings. Many books are obsolete before they are printed!

 

[Jerry Smith]

I'm an internet junkie. I would be the last to put it down. It's just the wrong place to go for a basic education in the sciences. It is like using a screwdriver to remove a lugnut.

 

[euphoric]

Originally posted by Stormy
Jerry: Do you not understand how much time can be wasted in a classroom? I am capable of learning without an instructor getting into my way. I know this is not the way that works for most.

Not knowing the specifics of your background in the sciences, I'm giving this my best guess.&nbsp; I would recommend a book that was a great help in furthering my understanding of the concepts of biology as they relate to evolutionary theory.&nbsp; Douglas Futuyma's Evolutionary Biology is a relatively easy read for anyone with a modest background in science education.&nbsp; It's also a pretty easy read if your interested in such subjects.&nbsp; I linked to its listing on Amazon, but I'm sure that you could find it from a more economical source.&nbsp; For instance, my local library has a copy and yours may as well.&nbsp;

The amazon listing also mentions several other works that may be helpful to you down the line.

Good luck on your research!

-brett