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Featured The Great Apostasy

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by friend of, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I've noticed that younger generations have far less engagement with the churches I've attended recently. I look around and see the pews packed with older folks, but youth seem to be a rare sight. Is this a sign of the times? In a few more decades, churches are foreseeably set to lose a sizable percentage of attendees if younger generations don't engage and pick up where our parents and grandparents left off.

    Are we living in the time of great apostasy spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 ?

    1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition


    Or am I wrong? Discuss if you please
     
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  2. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is most certainly a sign of the times, as almost every Christian body is having problems keeping the young. If this trend continues, then the number of Christian faithful will drop significantly by the year 2100 and many local churches will have to merge or close, especially in smaller towns.
     
  3. JohnC2

    JohnC2 Member

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    Small towns aren’t the places where churches are drying up.

    And honestly - this is sort of a case of reaping what you sow.... When you quit doing outreach and outside evangelism activities because it attracts too many riff-raff.... and you de-fund your youth groups because too many of their parents don’t attend church here and kids get into predictable kid trouble.... And you refuse to engage popular culture and be out there engaging people in their emptiness because you hate popular culture and you think you will get too many needy, whiny people who won’t tithe..... And you don’t want to train and equip new folks for ministry because they will probably leave in 2-5 years and dump it back in your lap again anyway.... You also stop gaining new converts.

    See - the Actual Doing of Ministry is messy. It takes time consuming and hard work and real committment. Real life doesn’t work like a 15-20 minute sermon. It takes people who are willing to commit 5-10 years of their life to one place and they really dislike getting the rug pulled out from under them every 2 years with new green leadership wanting to undo everything that’s already working.
     
  4. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    You are not wrong. I have three children. Schooled in a private Christian school. Born again and baptized by water as a profession of faith.

    The oldest comes to church when he is home visiting.
    The middle child attends with us as a family when we are together for special holidays.
    The youngest attends very rarely.

    They are all responsible young adults. Not into drugs or any crime. They are well adjusted and are a benefit to society.

    However, they are not attending.

    I talked with one of their Christian teachers. He, as you and I, has noticed this trend in the "millennials" and young adults (whatever this generation is called).

    He believes that the people of this age group will need a different kind of church setting. They are on their phones and other electronics and connected to one another differently than we were. They are not going to sit and listen do someone for 1/2 an hour... even if the person is a great speaker.

    I tend to believe him. We have to find a way to present them with an attractive venue.

    The other thing that is on my mind.. is that, even though my kids had 8 years of school where God was the center.. they still had 4 or 5 years of high school and then post secondary... where God is forbidden.

    Academia takes over.. everything is by chance and 4.5 billion years old. Mention prayer, the bible, Christ, salvation, creation, supernatural.. and you are stopped in your tracks and backed up or backed out.

    How do you deal with young minds in a world where there is an explanation for everything but nothing relies on scripture and scripture is not even an option?

    Then you want them to come to church and hear the words of a man, contradicting everything that all of the other elders and teachers are telling them.
     
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  5. JohnC2

    JohnC2 Member

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    Honestly - church is often a terrible place for young folks out of youth group.

    They can’t date and meet a spouse there.
    They can’t get a job from somebody who goes there.
     
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Certainly there is a slow erosion going on ... but I think there will be a global financial collapse and when that happens there will be unbelievable chaos everywhere and the great apostasy will happen during that time.
     
  7. JohnB445

    JohnB445 Well-Known Member

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    Legalism may be a reason why youth steer away from Church.

    I've even told myself that I'm going to wait until I'm older, but God already woke me up before that happened.
     
  8. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Huh? But why should the youth rely on the "opium of the people" (religion - Karl Marx) when there's plenty of real opium available right here in the streets?
     
  9. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is a strong movement towards smaller house congregations, a "house church". I think some are a bit disappointed with denominational worship and or the mega church environment. Also, I believe lots of these younger kids who went through life under the wings of their parents denomination are branching out and finding their own walk with Christ. After all it is a personal decision and a personal relationship. Some may come back, some may completely fall away for a season and some may find another group to worship with.
    Blessings
     
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  10. whereloveandmercymeet

    whereloveandmercymeet There but for the grace of God...

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    I’m in my late twenties and I used to be in church Monday nights, some Tuesday nights for PCC, Thursday morning communion, Friday night to run youth group, and stay on for fellowship, and of course, Sunday morning.

    Now I’m lucky to make it more than fortnightly Sundays. Between an autistic child, severe health issues it’s hard. But my church very much keep me involved as much as possible. When I hadn’t been for quite a chunk of time due to health my vicar drove out to me to check in and for communion which really touched me. And I don’t live close.

    Amongst my similar aged friends there are a few of us that miss out on engaging a lot. My ‘sister’ is as ill as I and has no transport of her own, so when I or her parents are too sick she can’t get to a church (she’s happy to go mine or hers. Another friend is a nurse and can’t find many services that work with her hours, but she sometimes gets some time in the hospital chapel.

    I think some of it is some churches aren’t engaging young people, some (like mine) are in areas there aren’t really any children or young people, and for some it’s the modern 24/7 lifestyle that gets in the way.

    I think it’s very sad. Watching some of the teenagers in youth group the first time they prayed and really felt the Holy Spirit was so moving and I felt honoured to witness it.

    I’d love if/when healthier to get back into reaching out to teenagers and young adults.
     
  11. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Some pastors are theologically brilliant and technology inept. Getting those two things on the same page will help hold youth, as will youth activities outside of service. But the gospel message remains in tact, never compromise that because then you lose the Holy Spirit and you need Him in contact with everyone, including the young.

    As destructive as technology can be it needs to somehow be embraced in this day and age in a positive way if you want any attention from the kids and even some older folks too.. I've been to churches where they tell you to shut it off. You just shot half the congregation in the foot because they were probably going to follow along with their electronic bibles.

    This probably won't apply so much in churches where everyone chants canned responses but more so where they preach from the bible.
     
  12. 1am3laine

    1am3laine Active Member

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    I believe the "Falling Away" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Since that's the only way you can truly fall from salvation.
    (matthew 12:31-32, mark 3:28-30, luke 12:8-10)

    We've seen a lot of people do it via the "Blasphemy Challenge" from the rational response squad on youtube. Also, I've seen many people speak against the Holy Spirit via twitter tweets.
    So I definitely believe the falling away is happening.
    Look @ the link below.
    The Secrets of The Gospel: Has the falling away begun? Blasphemous Tweets

    Also in the black conscious community, some go against the Holy Spirit and many have become satan worshipers. (Young Pharoah, Sara Suten Seti, Doelow Da Pilotman)
     
  13. whereloveandmercymeet

    whereloveandmercymeet There but for the grace of God...

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    I’ve never heard of those, at the risk of going off topic could you briefly explain them or message me? I’d google but I’d be given so much information f I’m so many view points it’d be hard to get truth.
     
  14. 1am3laine

    1am3laine Active Member

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    Those people have a youtube following. Look @ the vid's below



    Start @ approx 10:30


    Start @ approx 34:41-35:20

     
  15. whereloveandmercymeet

    whereloveandmercymeet There but for the grace of God...

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    Just briefly watching snippets of that was pretty scary! I do fear for those taken in by them Thanks @1am3laine

    Sorry for the slight derail @friend of !
     
  16. EJ M

    EJ M Member Supporter

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    So, who is the man of sin?
    Has been been revealed?
     
  17. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't believe so. The revealing of the mos happens after the great apostasy. I also believe it will leave no doubt in the minds of the faithful who are watching the world and following scripture as to the identity of this person. There will be consensus that transcends denomination.
     
  18. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    there are two ways to identify the man of sin and one is for sure going to be when Israel has the temple and the sacrifice is restored. This is as Daniel 9 says the prince who shall come will confirm a covenant with the many for 1 week and in the middle of the week stop the daily sacrifices. This is what happens in 2 thess 2 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[fn] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[fn] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[fn] who now restrains will do so until He[fn] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders

    If we isolate the details this man called the son of perdition a name also ascribed to Judas who was also possessed by Satan himself. It says he will sit in the temple and exalt himself above all this is God and sit as God in the temple. This one is also destroyed at the coming of the LORD so for sure this is future and not Nero. Rev 13 speaking of the beast
    The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
    5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue[fn] for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[fn] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. You see this one is also given power by Satan the dragon identified in Rev 19 and 20 show how this is the one who is destroyed at the coming of the LORD.
    11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[fn] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[fn] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[fn] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
    KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years
     
  19. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist

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    You need to study religious history.

    The Reformers, one and all, applied the prophecies of the “Man of sin” and the “Antichrist” to the Papacy. John Knox, for instance, wrote, “The Pope is the head of the Church of Antichrist. As for your Roman Church as it is now corrupted. I no more doubt but that it is the synagogue of Satan, and the head thereof called the Pope, the man of sin.”

    http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/eBooks/THE_ORIGIN_OF_FUTURISM.pdf
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I think apostasy has been going on a long time. People have rejected the teachings of Jesus and replaced them with own doctrines. Probably that is one reason why young people don’t go as much to church anymore.
     
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