The Gosples

[Dave Taylor]

Paul's gospel is the gospel of Jesus Christ; there is no other Good News.

What was kept secret was that the Gentiles would participate in God's redemptive salvation plan....It had been preached and taught in the OT writings, was, as Paul stated, "made manifest" with the outgoing of the Gospel into all the nations following Christ's ascension. The OT Gentile nations didn't know it though, it was hidden from them because of their unbelief, and because Satan had deceived them from receiving it.

It took Christ and calvary to bind satan and to free the Gentiles to come to the light of Christ...via...guess what....THe same GOSPEL....THE GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST!

Christ Himself told us that His Gospel had been preached and made known in the OT writings....why not believe HIM, and punt your view that contradicts His?

Luke 24:44 "And JESUS said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name"

There is, was, and ever-shall-be only one Gospel....The Good News of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sin and salvation of humanities souls!

 

[Jerrysch]

Paul's gospel is the gospel of Jesus Christ; there is no other Good News.

What was kept secret was that the Gentiles would participate in God's redemptive salvation plan....It had been preached and taught in the OT writings, was, as Paul stated, "made manifest" with the outgoing of the Gospel into all the nations following Christ's ascension. The OT Gentile nations didn't know it though, it was hidden from them because of their unbelief, and because Satan had deceived them from receiving it.

It took Christ and calvary to bind satan and to free the Gentiles to come to the light of Christ...via...guess what....THe same GOSPEL....THE GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST!

Christ Himself told us that His Gospel had been preached and made known in the OT writings....why not believe HIM, and punt your view that contradicts His?

Luke 24:44 "And JESUS said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name"

There is, was, and ever-shall-be only one Gospel....The Good News of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sin and salvation of humanities souls!

I think you misunderstood me;

Were the Gospels given for the church's use as doctrine to be practiced, that is doctine for daily living?


That is the Books of Matthew, Mark , Luke and John, were they intended for the church to use as guidelines for day to day living?

 

[Dave Taylor]

Jerry asks:
Were the Gospels given for the church's use as doctrine to be practiced, that is doctine for daily living?


That is the Books of Matthew, Mark , Luke and John, were they intended for the church to use as guidelines for day to day living?"

If they weren't, then we who claim to be Christians are all fools.

Good grief, it is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard to question that Jesus Christ Himself came to earth as a man, taught us first hand how we should live, and anyone, specifically any Christian, would entertain the idea that His direct teachings, which comprise most of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John's text, would not be intended for us, nor be intended for us to use as guidelines for day to day living. That's why we have them. That's why He preserved them, so by His Word we would have understanding and truth!

If you throw out the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John....and say they are not for us, and we should not use them as guidelines, teachings, and instruction....then there is no such thing as Christianity.

John 20:29 "Jesus saith unto him...blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"

John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."


I guess then Jerry, your question really should be, "Do you love Him?"

...Because the answer to that question, is the same answer to your first question at the top.

 

[Jerrysch]

If you throw out the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John....and say they are not for us, and we should not use them as guidelines, teachings, and instruction....then there is no such thing as Christianity.

Who is making this suggestion? Have I ? All Scripture is given by God and is profitable for doctrine reproof and instruction in righteousness!

 

[Jerrysch]

I guess then Jerry, your question really should be, "Do you love Him?"

...Because the answer to that question, is the same answer to your first question at the top.

I am sorry if my questions offend you, I am sorry that it seems as if discussion is impossible between we two. I do have a point I am trying to make...

 

[Dave Taylor]

Jerry asks:

Originally Posted by: Dave Taylor
If you throw out the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John....and say they are not for us, and we should not use them as guidelines, teachings, and instruction....then there is no such thing as Christianity.

Who is making this suggestion? Have I ? All Scripture is given by God and is profitable for doctrine reproof and instruction in righteousness!

I agree with you Jerry, that all scripture is given by God and is profitable for doctrine, reproff, and instruction in righteousness.

However, when you said what you said earlier, you sure seemed to be trying to saying the opposite in regards to the Gospels teachings for the church of today, when you wrote:

Jerry orignally asked:
Were the Gospels given for the church's use as doctrine to be practiced, that is doctine for daily living?

That is the Books of Matthew, Mark , Luke and John, were they intended for the church to use as guidelines for day to day living?"

Looks like your original question you wrote above was in contrast with what you later wrote in 2 Timothy 3:16.

Maybe I jumped the gun a little, and if so I apologize. I have talked with alot of dispensationalists out there who would say that the gospels, Hebrews, James, and Revelation were not intended for Christians of today, but are intended for the Jews only. It appeared to me, in how you asked the original question, that you were going in that direction.

I sure do hope that you hold the 4 gospels dear to your heart when it comes to doctrine and daily guidelines. I really do.

 

[MC1171611]

I sure do hope that you hold the 4 gospels dear to your heart when it comes to doctrine and daily guidelines. I really do.

Have you cut off your hand (Matt. 5:30), plucked out your eye (Matt. 5:29), given all of your posessions to the poor in order to gain eternal life (Luke 18:22), and raised more dead people than Christ (John 14:12)? What doctrines are you using, then? What about this:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

What doctrines are you talking about?

 

[Dave Taylor]

MC,
Try just a little bit of common sense....when examining the gospels.

Everyone has different gifts, and are called to do different things for the Lord. Don't go looking for BennyHinn type-miracles...they aren't the mark of believers.

God uses men to accomplish His will on His timetable and discretion. You seem to be looking for the most isolated and unique events of the NT Gospels; and expecting someone to put on a show to proove they are applicable.

The point of Matt 5 is not literal mutilation; but an analogy to show us that our physical well-being isn't comparable to our souls; and that loosing any physical ability would far outweigh loosing ones soul for unbelief.

As far as raising, the dead, when it's in God's will, he calls His followers to do so...just like Elijah, just like Paul, just like Peter....I haven't had the instruction yet...it seems to be a pretty rare event.

As far as the other events listed in Mark, sure they have occured, but they are not normative events; they are pretty rare and special...do you do them daily?

The doctrines of the Gospels that Christ taught that we should follow daily would be....just rambling some off the top of my head...

Love the Lord your God with all your heart
Love your neighbor similarly
Be kind and compassionate to those in need
Don't be racist
Turn from sin
Be a peacemaker
Store up treasures in heaven
be a servant
follow the narrow gate
lift up Christ as Lord and saviour
shout Christ's Good News to the nations and all peoples
etc....


Do you believe any of the NT Gospels are profitable for daily doctrine MC?

 

[MC1171611]

Do you believe any of the NT Gospels are profitable for daily doctrine MC?

I believe that the whole Bible is profitable for doctrine; but it isn't all doctrine. We can learn about the nature of God, and what pleases or displeases Him, but applying those things lead to disaster when comparing them to Paul's Epistles.

Jesus preached to the Jews, right? We are not Jews, right? Jesus' teachings are, after all, perfect, but are we really to give away all of our posessions in order to gain eternal life? That is what He told the Rich Young Ruler. Is that what you did in order to go to Heaven? That is in direct contradiction to Ephesians 2:8-9 if Christ truly was speaking to you.

Read it all, believe it all; obey what was written to you.

 

[Dave Taylor]

Jesus preached to the Jews, right?

Jesus preached to all humanity; at that exact moment in time; most who were eye-witnesses were Jews, but the Gospels also show several Gentiles also who were present. Jesus did not exculsively preach to the Jews, but when you are in Argentina, mostly Argentines are gonna be the audience. Jesus' preaching has been preached second-hand though, throughout the entire word, to millions upon billions of peoples of all ethnicity over the last 2000 years. The Gospel is for humanity; not for an ethnic subset.

We are not Jews, right?

It doesn't matter who we are, we are 'humans' lost in our sin; and Jesus is the cure. Jewishness is no more worthwhile than being a chainsaw juggler.

Jesus' teachings are, after all, perfect, but are we really to give away all of our posessions in order to gain eternal life? That is what He told the Rich Young Ruler. Is that what you did in order to go to Heaven?

You miss Jesus' point. His point was that all who follow Him (including us) must love Him more than we do any material possessions, earthly status, or fleshly desire. The idea of Him being Savior is pretty easily understood....not many folks, however, understand the idea of Him being 'LORD'. His point to the rich young ruler applies exactly no different today to anyone reading it now, than it did then...first hand.

If you want eternal life, you have to make Jesus your Lord, and love Him more than your fleshly, selfish desires.

 

[Markea]

..although we are also admonished to study, and to rightly divide the word of truth..

Yet many in Christendom do not rightly divide the scriptures.. they apply things pertaining to Israel to the church of God etc... and so we have vast portions of Christendom preaching and teaching doctrine such as amillennialism.. which claims that we're already in the millennial kingdom..? ? They sit in self proclaimed seats of authority and make themselves lords over His church.. because they believe and teach that they're ruling and reigning now..

Many ignore what Paul tells them not to be ignorant of.. how that Israel has been blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.. or how that Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled...

etc etc etc...

Take for example Luke 12:36.. where the servant is admonished to have his loins girded and lights burning, and to be waiting for their Lord when He returns from the wedding..

Would folks apply that to the church of God..? If you're part of the body of Christ (His church) then you'd be at the marriage of the Lamb which takes place in heaven..you wouldn't be waiting for Him to return from it..

There's a difference.. and many in Christendom ignore or reject these things.. and it all comes down to Israel... For some reason, people can not accept the scriptural fact that these are the times of the Gentiles, and that God is going to bring Israel to the forefront and bless them for His great names sake.. it's going to happen.. the scriptures tell us these things.

Thanks be to the God of the living, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.. who has told us these things.. even from the beginning.

 

[MC1171611]

Jesus preached to all humanity; at that exact moment in time; most who were eye-witnesses were Jews, but the Gospels also show several Gentiles also who were present. Jesus did not exculsively preach to the Jews, but when you are in Argentina, mostly Argentines are gonna be the audience. Jesus' preaching has been preached second-hand though, throughout the entire word, to millions upon billions of peoples of all ethnicity over the last 2000 years. The Gospel is for humanity; not for an ethnic subset.

I agree that the Gospel is for all of humanity, but which one? There are three, you know. And, Jesus most certainly was preaching to the Jews only; He said so Himself.

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Paul and Peter were the first ones to openly preach to the Gentiles.

It doesn't matter who we are, we are 'humans' lost in our sin; and Jesus is the cure. Jewishness is no more worthwhile than being a chainsaw juggler.

But when the message is not directed to you, then you will profit none by following the rules as doctrine. Use it instead as a ruler for your life: standards, not commands.

You miss Jesus' point. His point was that all who follow Him (including us) must love Him more than we do any material possessions, earthly status, or fleshly desire. The idea of Him being Savior is pretty easily understood....not many folks, however, understand the idea of Him being 'LORD'. His point to the rich young ruler applies exactly no different today to anyone reading it now, than it did then...first hand.

If you want eternal life, you have to make Jesus your Lord, and love Him more than your fleshly, selfish desires.

Of course, in order to accept Christ, one has to forsake faith in all else, but I quote again:

Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

This is what he was supposed to do to inherit eternal life:

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Those are works: if you don't see that he was required to do works for his salvation, then you are either blind, or explaining stuff away. He was required to do works: that was under the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matt. 4:23 ¶ And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matt. 9:35 ¶ And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matt. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 1:14 ¶ Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

 

[Hedgehog]

I agree that the Gospel is for all of humanity, but which one? There are three, you know. And, Jesus most certainly was preaching to the Jews only; He said so Himself.

Though I know the theory of which you speak.. I dont agree.
How many gospels could there be? How many different good news could there be? about what? what else matters except what Jesus did?
You dont have to explain all the "gospels", I know them. I just see it differently.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Those are works: if you don't see that he was required to do works for his salvation, then you are either blind, or explaining stuff away. He was required to do works: that was under the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Do you really think this was simply about selling all he has and distributing to the poor?
Or do you suppose Jesus was speaking of something deeper?

consider in this : Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

This isnt speaking of selling material possessions, its speaking of "selling"/getting rid of all you have..... previously concieved notions of self righteousness... get rid of it, "buy" THIS FIELD. The TRUTH. The revealed FAITH.

Remember Jesus said he knows His sheep and they know His voice and they HEAR Him.
Some one asked something like, how will you be able to tell us stuff and the world wont know?
I believe its because people who really care really know the scriptures and can see what He really means.
I think it sounds silly to think Jesus simply meant you wont be saved unless you sell all your belongings.

 

[MC1171611]

I think it sounds silly to think Jesus simply meant you wont be saved unless you sell all your belongings.

I think that it is silly to not believe the Bible for what it says.

I didn't say that we get saved by selling our belongings; I used that as an example to show that people got saved at different times by doing different things. That is Biblical, and everyone tries to spiritualize the verses that explain this, instead of studying Scripture in it's right divisions. (2 Tim. 2:15, KJB only)

 

[Hedgehog]

that was under the Gospel of the Kingdom.

What does this mean exactly?
If Jesus was telling him to do something specific to the kingdom.. the gospel of the kingdom..and he had to do that.. one would have to assume the "kingdom" was on then? in force at that time?
Or why would he tell him to do it then?
Or was Jesus decivingly getting that specific person ready for a kingdom that was not going to happen in his lifetime?

 

[MC1171611]

What does this mean exactly?
If Jesus was telling him to do something specific to the kingdom.. the gospel of the kingdom..and he had to do that.. one would have to assume the "kingdom" was on then? in force at that time?
Or why would he tell him to do it then?
Or was Jesus decivingly getting that specific person ready for a kingdom that was not going to happen in his lifetime?

This is where people get Prophecy and the Omniscience of God mixed up. Christ preached the Gospel of the Kingdom; this is clearly established as distinct from the Gospel of the Grace of God, or the Everlasting Gospel (Rev. 14:6). WHAT IF... What if the Jews had accepted Christ? The Tribulation would have happened as prophecied in Daniel, and in the Trib, one is made righteous and gets to Heaven by following Christ's Gospel of the Kingdom.

Now, we know that it is prophecied that the Jews would reject Christ, and also that the Church Age would come in on top of the Jews, so the hypothetical is unnecessary. But, it can clear up a lot if one understands the context of what Jesus was preaching. Today, we ought to use Christ's example to live, but not as applied doctrine. That doctrine is for those that must endure the Tribulation, and in the Millenial Kingdom, after the Trib.

 

[Hedgehog]

WHAT IF... What if the Jews had accepted Christ?

First of all, thank you for your responses.
What if it didnt matter if Jews specifically accepted Him, or how many Jews accepted Him? What if the truth then and always from the beginning is that God regardeth not persons.. not a respector of persons?
What if Jews had been wrong in their thinking that they were anything special to God above the rest of humanity.. not chosen out just because of race.. and Jesus came to set the record straight.

What if He came to say " hey you know that 'Abrahams seed thing?'...... that was about ME not you"

What if according to Moses law.. a sacrifice had to be made.. and only a perfect being could fulfill it.
So it didnt matter if Jews accepted Jesus or not, because in order to fulfill the obligations of that law, He had to die anwyays.

Think about the consequences of if Jews( according to your beliefs) had accepted Him..... He wouldnt have died..there would have been no perfect sacrifice to fulfll Moses obligation to the law.. and people would still be in their sins and the law would still be in effect.
God is a loyal God and one who follows rules.. its what makes Him worthy of trusting.
He would not have chose to just do away with the law without it being fulfilled.
There would have been no way out... thats part of what Jesus did.. He made a way out. The prophets prophesied that there would be an out, that they would escape the law and its ministration of death.

God has an exact plan and its going exactly as He wants it. He knew exactly what He was doing and there was no false assumption that Jews could accept Jesus and pan A would have taken place.... but they didnt so on to plan B.

Though I do agree that there were differences while Jesus walked the earth... before He died, the law stood.

 

[MC1171611]

First of all, thank you for your responses.

No problem. I have enjoyed discussing the Bible in a civilized manner, without using opinions.

What if it didnt matter if Jews specifically accepted Him, or how many Jews accepted Him? What if the truth then and always from the beginning is that God regardeth not persons.. not a respector of persons?
What if Jews had been wrong in their thinking that they were anything special to God above the rest of humanity.. not chosen out just because of race.. and Jesus came to set the record straight.

What if He came to say " hey you know that 'Abrahams seed thing?'...... that was about ME not you"

What if according to Moses law.. a sacrifice had to be made.. and only a perfect being could fulfill it.
So it didnt matter if Jews accepted Jesus or not, because in order to fulfill the obligations of that law, He had to die anwyays.

I see what you mean. That is why I used the hypothetical: it was prophecied that Christ would die, and the Tribulation would be put off for a time. But, the Jews had the opportunity to accept Him as their Messiah. When they rejected Him, He was crucified, fulfilling the prophcies.

But, if Christ had been accepted as Messiah, then the Tribulation would have occured with Judas as the anti-Christ (Satan had indwelt him after the Last Supper). three and a half years later, Christ would have set up His earthly Kingdom. (there is much discussion on this issue; I am actually right now talking with a Bible Schollar about this issue)

Think about the consequences of if Jews( according to your beliefs) had accepted Him..... He wouldnt have died..there would have been no perfect sacrifice to fulfll Moses obligation to the law.. and people would still be in their sins and the law would still be in effect.
God is a loyal God and one who follows rules.. its what makes Him worthy of trusting.
He would not have chose to just do away with the law without it being fulfilled.
There would have been no way out... thats part of what Jesus did.. He made a way out. The prophets prophesied that there would be an out, that they would escape the law and its ministration of death.

Christ fulfilled the Law for Righteousness. That is the fact. We no longer live under the letter of the law, which the Israelites were required to keep.

God has an exact plan and its going exactly as He wants it. He knew exactly what He was doing and there was no false assumption that Jews could accept Jesus and pan A would have taken place.... but they didnt so on to plan B.

Though I do agree that there were differences while Jesus walked the earth... before He died, the law stood.

Christ was the end of the law for Righteousness. The Gospels, and the doctrine that they contain, are for those that live during the Tribulation, and the Millenial Kingdom. God does know what He is doing: His plan is perfect, but we can only see parts of it through the prophecies.

Again, we can learn so much about our life and how to live from the Gospels; doctrinal application is the problem.