The Gospel

[Runningman]

That's a weak argument on any forum.

hi again Mark. It isn’t an argument as I’m just pointing out what they said.

 

[Runningman]

No one denies Jesus is God's Son.

Good I am glad to hear that. Then don’t add anything else to the gospel. The Bible strictly warns against this.

 

[Clare73]

Good I am glad to hear that. Then don’t add anything else to the gospel. The Bible strictly warns against this.

Agreed. . .no problem.

The problem is denying the Gospel of John in Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14, and not knowing the meaning of logos (word) which John chose to use of Jesus, nowhere else used of him in the NT. The Trinity being basic to historical Christianity, those who deny it are regarded by historical Christianity as heretical sects.

In Greek philosophy, logos was the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the universe. John opens his gospel with the astounding claim that the recently despised and crucified Jesus of Nazareth, is the eternal logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning (Jn 1:1).
(Note that Jesus is "the Word, who was God," not the word of God, which refers to the Scriptures. Jesus never referred to himself as, nor does the NT ever refer to Jesus as, the "word of God". . .NT words and their definitions matter.)

"The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory of an only begotten (not made/not created, but sired)

. . .[conceived by the Holy Spirit coming upon Mary, and the power of the Most High God overshadowing her, so the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God, Lk 1:35, not spiritual son of God as are those in Christ, but begotten son of God, as you are of your human father--NT words and their definitions matter]. . .

from the Father, full of grace and of truth." (Jn 1:14)

Jesus was the son of the human Mary, making him human, and the begotten/sired Son of God, making him divine (i.e., God).
(That which is sired by a human father is human, that which is sired by a divine Father; i.e., God, is divine.)

"This forum is NOT for Apologetics or debates."

Will not be debating the expected misrepresentations that will be presented here.
EDIT: as in posts #24, #25, #31.

 

[Runningman]

Agreed. . .no problem.

The problem is denying the Gospel of John in Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning (Jn 1:1).
"The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory of an only begotten (not made/not created, but sired)

That doesn't say Yeshua is God. It says the Word was God. The word of God became flesh just like Genesis says. Are you denying God's word from Genesis 3:15 became flesh like John 1:14 says?

Genesis 3
15And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

. . .[but conceived by the Holy Spirit coming upon Mary, and the power of the Most High God overshadowing her, so the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God, Lk 1:35]. . .

from the Father, full of grace and of truth." (Jn 1:14)

It says Yeshua is from the Father, conceived, begotten, a Son. They're telling you in many ways Yeshua was created, had a beginning point, and not eternal like God is.

Jesus was the son of the human Mary, making him human, and the begotten/sired Son of God, making him divine (i.e., God).
(That which is sired by a human father is human, that which is sired by a divine Father; i.e., God, is divine.)

"This forum is NOT for Apologetics or debates."

Christ traces his ancestry back through Adam to God. The entire lineage of people from Christ to God trace their origin to God. If Yeshua was God then according to your logic then Adam was God, too.

Luke 3:38
38the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Will not be debating here.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[timothyu]

If Yeshua was God then according to your logic then Adam was God, too.

Interesting point

 

[Aussie Pete]

I thought that it would be fitting to make my first post about the Gospel Christ shared from his Father.

John 3:16-17
16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

An important part of the gospel is to believe that Yeshua is God's begotten Son and that his Father is God. This important distinction is sometimes glanced over, but it's nevertheless important and critical so I mean to point it out.

Yeshua the Christ's God and Father revealed through him the gospel:

John 12:49-50
49For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

The gospel is, therefore, the power of God the Father unto salvation for all who believe:

Romans 1:16
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Therefore, God chose the man Yeshua of Nazareth to be our mediator between us and Himself:

1 Timothy 2:5
5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

In God the Father.

This is the gospel, the gospel of the Kingdom of God:
Luke 4:18 & 19

“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”…

Salvation is much more than being reconciled to God. It is to be delivered from sin, self, Satan and the world. It's a shame that so much preaching offers a "get out of hell" message when that is just the beginning of new life in Christ.

 

[Clare73]

That doesn't say Yeshua is God. It says the Word was God. The word of God became flesh just like Genesis says. Are you denying God's word from Genesis 3:15 became flesh like John 1:14 says?

Genesis 3
15And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

It says Yeshua is from the Father, conceived, begotten, a Son. They're telling you in many ways Yeshua was created, had a beginning point, and not eternal like God is.

Christ traces his ancestry back through Adam to God. The entire lineage of people from Christ to God trace their origin to God. If Yeshua was God then according to your logic then Adam was God, too.

Luke 3:38
38the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

"This forum is NOT for Apologetics or debates."

 

[Runningman]

"This forum is NOT for Apologetics or debates."

Thanks for derailing my thread. Classy. Good day.

 

[Runningman]

This is the gospel, the gospel of the Kingdom of God:
Luke 4:18 & 19

“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”…

Salvation is much more than being reconciled to God. It is to be delivered from sin, self, Satan and the world. It's a shame that so much preaching offers a "get out of hell" message when that is just the beginning of new life in Christ.

Indeed. The gospel of the kingdom of God. Christ was teaching others how to get into this kingdom and that’s the salvation bit most are interested in.

 

[Barnabatic]

 

[timothyu]

Christ was teaching others how to get into this kingdom and that’s the salvation bit most are interested in.

Yet the good news was God would be taking control away from man over fellow man.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I thought that it would be fitting to make my first post about the Gospel Christ shared from his Father.

John 3:16-17
16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

An important part of the gospel is to believe that Yeshua is God's begotten Son and that his Father is God. This important distinction is sometimes glanced over, but it's nevertheless important and critical so I mean to point it out.

Yeshua the Christ's God and Father revealed through him the gospel:

John 12:49-50
49For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

The gospel is, therefore, the power of God the Father unto salvation for all who believe:

Romans 1:16
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Therefore, God chose the man Yeshua of Nazareth to be our mediator between us and Himself:

1 Timothy 2:5
5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

In God the Father.

Not certain if you are saying Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting or not...sounds like NOT...hope I'm wrong in my understanding of your post. Jesus is God and He pre-exists His earthly life. This existence is made know in the O.T.
Hebrews and Revelation both state that His work was finished before the creation of the world. The Lamb which was slain since the creation of the world...right??

 

[Runningman]

The Lamb which was slain since the creation of the world...right??

It's in reference to pre-knowledge and predestination by God concerning the sacrifice of Christ. Otherwise, if he had already been literally slain since the foundation of the world, then there would not be a need for an additional sacrifice, via being slayed, later. This is because it's in reference to predestination. I hope that helps.

 

[Lukaris]

God defines Himself as He reveals Himself to us ( Deuteronomy 6:4). He says a Virgin shall conceive Him since when He is born He is Immanuel ( God with us) per Isaiah 7:14. God affirms His 3 Persons in Isaiah 48:12-16 Who is the Same God Who speaks as of 3 in Revelation 1:8. This Son is God,the eternal Word of God, Who became flesh ( John 1:1-3, John 1:14-18).

God says “I am that I am” to Moses and tells Moses that He is “I am” to the people ( Exodus 3:14). The Lord Jesus Christ says that He Himself is “I am” in John 8:58 within the conversation of John 8:56-59.

What the Lord says of His Divine Persons in Isaiah is revealed in detail in John 14:1-31, John 15:1-27, John 16:1-33. The Holy Spirit Who is God Who is sent by God the Father in the name of God the Son teaches us this among all things ( John 14:26). This Holy Spirit ( God) Who proceeds eternally from God the Father ( John 15:26).

The Son of God is God Who was with God the Father as Creators. The Father the designer and the Son the builder ( Colossians 1:15-18). The Eternal life giving Spirit of creation is always with the Father & Son ( Genesis 1:1-2) and His work is testified by the Lord Jesus Christ in John 16:5-15.

 

[Clare73]

God defines Himself as He reveals Himself to us ( Deuteronomy 6:4). He says a Virgin shall conceive Him since when He is born He is Immanuel ( God with us) per Isaiah 7:14. God affirms His 3 Persons in Isaiah 48:12-16 Who is the Same God Who speaks as of 3 in Revelation 1:8. This Son is God,the eternal Word of God, Who became flesh ( John 1:1-3, John 1:14-18).

Keeping in mind that Jesus never referred to himself as the "Word of God," nor do we find it anywhere in the NT, where Jesus is simply "the Word" (Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14).
In the NT, the "word of God" refers to the Scriptures, not the person.

God says “I am that I am” to Moses and tells Moses that He is “I am” to the people ( Exodus 3:14). The Lord Jesus Christ says that He Himself is “I am” in John 8:58 within the conversation of John 8:56-59.

What the Lord says of His Divine Persons in Isaiah is revealed in detail in John 14:1-31, John 15:1-27, John 16:1-33. The Holy Spirit Who is God Who is sent by God the Father in the name of God the Son teaches us this among all things ( John 14:26). This Holy Spirit ( God) Who proceeds eternally from God the Father ( John 15:26).

The Son of God is God Who was with God the Father as Creators. The Father the designer and the Son the builder ( Colossians 1:15-18). The Eternal life giving Spirit of creation is always with the Father & Son ( Genesis 1:1-2) and His work is testified by the Lord Jesus Christ in John 16:5-15.

 

[Lukaris]

Keeping in mind that Jesus never referred to himself as the "Word of God," nor do we find it anywhere in the NT, where Jesus is simply "the Word" (Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14).
In the NT, the "word of God" refers to the Scriptures, not the person.

I know sometimes I get dizzy when delving into the Trinity.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

It's in reference to pre-knowledge and predestination by God concerning the sacrifice of Christ. Otherwise, if he had already been literally slain since the foundation of the world, then there would not be a need for an additional sacrifice, via being slayed, later. This is because it's in reference to predestination. I hope that helps.

No, don't agree with you. His work... redemption...has been done since the creation of the universe. This is in reference to the fact that our time is not the same as God's time. God is an awesome and powerful God, as you surely know, and even our time and measurement of it differs from His. He is utterly amazing!

 

[Runningman]

No, don't agree with you. His work... redemption...has been done since the creation of the universe. This is in reference to the fact that our time is not the same as God's time. God is an awesome and powerful God, as you surely know, and even our time and measurement of it differs from His. He is utterly amazing!

Christ was sacrificed one time not two times.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Christ was sacrificed one time not two times.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Of course...He was sacrificed once! Time between the minds of man and the mind of God is what differs.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This isn’t an apologetics or debate thread but I suppose as far as debating goes it’ll depend on your reaction; however, I won’t reciprocate. This thread is informative about the gospel,I.e, will help non-believers learn about Christianity.


Thanks for sharing and I hope that clears it up for you. God bless.

This forum's purpose is for unbelievers to ask questions.

-CryptoLutheran