The gift of tongues

[Saint JOHN]

As for the verses from Paul you quote, they come from the same segment where he says not everyone has the gift of languages. Ch. 12. So, whatever speaking in other languages is, and everything about it, that much is clear. Not every person born of the Spirit speaks in other languages. What you see in Acts is the accompanying gift upon being baptized with the Spirit (What I believe is the initial experience of being filled with the Spirit) God determined to happen in those particular situations, but not to be expected for every time one is baptized/filled with the Spirit.

IN THE CHURCH the use is restricted to those who have developed there tongue ( undefileable God given language upon receiving the Holy Ghost..) and whatever other gifts they have developed ..you get the lot ,package deal; but as a babe (in Christ grows,it develops better at some than others..IN THE CHURCH..max 3 tongues..corrisponding interpretation..then 2 or at most 3 gifts of prophecy..

so all receive the same just us what your best at..hope your church is run this way !?

eg..
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

 

[mister rogers]

It's not what I think. He was saying these things would follow believers. That's different than saying these things would follow EACH believer. Which does the text say? The former.

 

[mister rogers]

Some other things to think about. Four Points About Tongues from 1 Corinthians 14

 

[seekingmuch]

The gift of tongues is different than a prayer language. The gift of tongues always is followed by an interpretation. They actually do sound quiet different as well. This is one of those gifts that many religious people disregard. However, it’s quite real...just a real as the gift of healing.
What are your thoughts on the gift of tongues?

It's a weird thing to get from the Holy Spirit. Weird in the fact someone else, Holy Spirit, was controlling my brain and using my mouth. No idea what it meant. I just kinda dissociated, got that skill from being sexually abused at 3.5 years old, and just let it happen.

 

[mister rogers]

I will say that after a while being around others doing it and practicing it, I became more comfortable doing it, and it became relaxing and euphoric, and at times it seemed I wasn't forcing it (as if "another" was making it happen). Thing is many would describe the same experience in other religions, not just Christian. The practice itself is something even an atheist can begin doing if they wanted to. It's been a practice in many non-Christian religions since way before Christianity even. It is my belief this is not what Paul was talking about. Where people try to say he's talking about private prayer language, he still says it needs to be interpreted. He's talking about the same gift all the way through I Cor. 14. In the previous chapter where he says "even if I spoke in the tongues of angels" it's hyperbole.

 

[mister rogers]

In ch. 12 where he says "diverse" languages, it's exactly that. Just like someone can speak multiple different languages: English, Chinese, Russian, etc.

 

[mister rogers]

What I'm getting at is every case of "speaking in tongues" in the Bible is the gift of speaking in another language (actual human foreign language) previously unknown by the speaker. Just because Paul says in I Cor. 14 he who speaks in a tongue while praying speaks to God, is irrelevant, because he still says it needs to be interpreted. In Acts 2 they were praying to God and began doing so in actual human foreign languages of people that were there.

 

[mister rogers]

The gift of tongues is different than a prayer language. The gift of tongues always is followed by an interpretation. They actually do sound quiet different as well. This is one of those gifts that many religious people disregard. However, it’s quite real...just a real as the gift of healing.
What are your thoughts on the gift of tongues?

In my experience they sounded the same. I do agree though that the legitimate gift (an actual human foreign language) would sound different than ecstatic speech, which people claim is private prayer language. But I don't think there is such a thing as private prayer language from the Bible. It looks to me that every case of tongues in the Bible is the gift of tongues, as you say, which is to be interpreted.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I will say that after a while being around others doing it and practicing it, I became more comfortable doing it, and it became relaxing and euphoric, and at times it seemed I wasn't forcing it (as if "another" was making it happen). Thing is many would describe the same experience in other religions, not just Christian. The practice itself is something even an atheist can begin doing if they wanted to. It's been a practice in many non-Christian religions since way before Christianity even. It is my belief this is not what Paul was talking about. Where people try to say he's talking about private prayer language, he still says it needs to be interpreted. He's talking about the same gift all the way through I Cor. 14. In the previous chapter where he says "even if I spoke in the tongues of angels" it's hyperbole.

I don't know about all the "scholarly" stuff that has been written about tongues on this thread. I just went in private before God and told Him I believed that the gift of tongues was His will for me, and so I asked for the gift, and then received it by faith. Then I started speaking a language I never learned and have been doing so for the last 52 years. As a result of speaking that language in private to God, I found He spoke back to me through very relevant verses and passages of Scripture that suited the issue that I was praying about. I said, "Are you sure that I am speaking the true tongues?" He said, "Why do you think I spent a whole chapter of My Bible to teach you about it and how to use it in private and in church?" That was good enough for me.

So, I don't care about what anyone says about tongues, or whether they are accusing me of speaking gibberish. And I don't care what Scriptures or commentaries are being quoted. I go to God and He tells me that the people who oppose tongues just don't know anything about it and that His Holy Spirit is trying to show them the beauty and truth of it, but they are obstinately deciding to remain ignorant of it. I don't care who is offended by that. I just repeat what God says to me about it.

So, my view is, that if the cap fits, wear it.

 

[mister rogers]

A caution: Always trust the Word before any feelings or thoughts.

 

[mister rogers]

My primary concern however is not the practice of ecstatic speech being considered within the scope of "gift of tongues" (although I obviously have objections to that), but the idea of it being the initial evidence of being filled with the Spirit, or needed for a "fuller" Christian experience. Paul makes it clear in I Cor. 12 not everyone in Christ speaks in tongues (in which ever way it manifests). I can't emphasize that enough.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

The rhetorical questions in I Cor 12 & 14 above answer themselves. It is evident that if a member of the body does not have a certain gift based on the Spirit's DETERMINATION & utterance, that doesn't make them a LESSER part of the body, less spiritual somehow.

Or that they are not part of the body at all, that they are not saved if they don't speak in tongues when baptized in the Spirit or speak in a private prayer language.

The one speaking in tongues cannot say to the member not speaking in tongues that we have no need of you or you are not part of the body of Christ.

I have been castigated by some Charismatics that I am not spiritual if I don't speak in tongues or pray in a prayer language; or that I am not saved if I don't evidence the baptism of the Spirit by speaking in tongues; or that I am missing out on a 'second' blessing, when God promised only one blessing in the Abrahamic covenant, not two; and some I won't even mention.

I agree - it's annoying at best.

To say everyone who has been baptised in the Spirit should have evidence of speaking in tongues is a doctrinal error. The fact that some churches are still pushing that says a lot about the lack of spiritual insights in those churches.

It's nice to see you hold on to good sense and not follow the crowd.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

well whatever YOU THINK,..Jesus said you would have them..just do what he says.

ps..once filled with Gods Spirit there is no room for the enemy..

ah hum - take a look at what happened to King Saul.
Peter reminded everyone to watch out for the Enemy !

 

[FIRESTORM314]

I don't know about all the "scholarly" stuff that has been written about tongues on this thread. I just went in private before God and told Him I believed that the gift of tongues was His will for me, and so I asked for the gift, and then received it by faith. Then I started speaking a language I never learned and have been doing so for the last 52 years. As a result of speaking that language in private to God, I found He spoke back to me through very relevant verses and passages of Scripture that suited the issue that I was praying about. I said, "Are you sure that I am speaking the true tongues?" He said, "Why do you think I spent a whole chapter of My Bible to teach you about it and how to use it in private and in church?" That was good enough for me.

So, I don't care about what anyone says about tongues, or whether they are accusing me of speaking gibberish. And I don't care what Scriptures or commentaries are being quoted. I go to God and He tells me that the people who oppose tongues just don't know anything about it and that His Holy Spirit is trying to show them the beauty and truth of it, but they are obstinately deciding to remain ignorant of it. I don't care who is offended by that. I just repeat what God says to me about it.

So, my view is, that if the cap fits, wear it.

If you have the gift on Tongues - fine no-one can argue with it.

The debate here is that some are saying everyone should have it if they are Baptised in the Spirit. My experience is the opposite of yours. I was incredibly filled with the Spirit. The guy who laid hands on me was taken aback as I practically lit up in front of him. Even after 30 years - every time he sees me he tells me to write my testimony for him & this guy has travelled the world and healed many with his own gifts. He still remembers me and he has reached thousands for Christ.

To this day - I've never spoken in tongues.

The doctrine of our church ( at the time ) was everyone should speak in tongues who has the Spirit Baptism. So I questioned it - cos not many people have had anything close to what happened to me.
So I asked God in prayer " Am i baptised in the Spirit or not? " The next day I went to church - we had a visiting preacher from Malaysia. At the end of the service he invited people to come to the front for prayer. He went along the row of people in front of him - stopped at me and said " Son - my Annointing is on you" I didn't say a thing - no-one knew why I was up front. I got my answer by confirmation from someone else - someone who didn't know me or what was on my mind.

and that Oscarr is good enough for me. It lines up with scripture as well.

The problem with the doctrine of everyone should speak in tongues results in many people faking it. That results in people eventually falling away as they think the whole show is a fake cos they were encouraged to speak in tongues when they did not have the gift.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If you have the gift on Tongues - fine no-one can argue with it.

The debate here is that some are saying everyone should have it if they are Baptised in the Spirit. My experience is the opposite of yours. I was incredibly filled with the Spirit. The guy who laid hands on me was taken aback as I practicly lit up in front of him. Even after 30 years - every time he sees me he tells me to write my testimony for him & this guy has travelled the world and healed many with his own gifts. He still remembers me and he has reached thousands for Christ.

To this day - I've never spoken in tongues.

The doctrine of our church ( at the time ) was everyone should speak in tongues who has the Spirit Baptism. So I questioned it - cos not many people have had anything close to what happened to me.
So I asked God in prayer " Am i baptised in the Spirit or not? " The next day I went to church - we had a visiting preacher from Malaysia. At the end of the service he invited people to come to the front for prayer. He went along the row of people in front of him - stopped at me and said " Son - my Annointing is on you" I didn't say a thing - no-one knew why I was up front. I got my answer by confirmation from someone else - someone who didn't know me or what was on my mind.

and that Oscarr is good enough for me. It lines up with scripture as well.

The problem with the doctrine of everyone should speak in tongues results in many people faking it. That results in people eventually falling away as they think the whole show is a fake cos they were encouraged to speak in tongues when they did not have the gift.

I don't have a problem with that. The problem is that people have been induced to speak in tongues without knowing what it is for. Many think it is some spiritual "toy" to make them feel good while speaking it, but have absolutely no idea of how it is used in private prayer or as a gift to the body of Christ.

It is a very meaningful facility when used for the right purpose. For many who don't have good sound teaching about it, it is like the steam going out the locomotive whistle instead of through the driving wheels.

Praying and speaking in tongues does have a real and powerful purpose in private prayer and in the church, and it is better to do some unbiased learning about it rather than just dismissing it because many tend to misuse it.

If someone takes a spanner and belts someone over the head with it, does that mean that I throw it away and not use it for undoing the nut at the end of a bolt, for which it was designed?

 

[tturt]

Also, tongues are a sign - To unbelievers - By believers
(I Cor 14:22 and Mark 16:17)

Have you heard singing in The Spirit? I Cor 14:15

DeborahG (post one) think they sound very different too.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Also, tongues are a sign - To unbelievers - By believers
(I Cor 14:22 and Mark 16:17)

Have you heard singing in The Spirit? I Cor 14:15

DeborahG (post one) think they sound very different too.

The sign of tongues being to unbelievers is what happened on the Day of Pentecost when everyone in the crowd heard their own languages through the tongues of the disciples. It has happened in these days when an unbeliever from a foreign country has heard someone speaking in tongues and the Holy Spirit has said things in his own language. Like the Chinese woman hearing the American guy in the row behind her speaking in the Cantonese language (which he had never learned), telling her, "You need to go forward and receive Jesus Christ as your Saviour." Now that is tongues being a sign to an unbeliever! And a lady from Wales in an American church hearing the Holy Spirit speaking to her through an American speaking pure Welsh without an accent!